View Full Version : A Study On Secondary Weapons
Chockeh
10-24-2010, 07:47 PM
What is a secondary weapon?
A secondary weapon is an item that you bring into dungeons. They are not really a real weapon and is used mostly for their utility. Unlike your main weapon, there is a limit on how many times you can use one for each dungeon, depending on the difficulty of that dungeon (Normal mode, Hard mode or Hero mode). They are mainly used to stop bosses from moving and give you a chance to attack, but their is also other secondary weapons, like mine bombs, that are used to gather ores.
Can you aim with it precisely?
Yes, you can either use auto-mode or manual-mode. To use normal mode, you just have to tap on the hotkey you use for secondary weapon once, but to activate manual mode, you are going to have to hold the key for a bit. Another alternative is that when you go to advanced controls in options, you can uncheck a box named Always auto-aim secondary weapon.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr82/kev_619_29/2010_10_24_0022-1.jpg?t=1288413579
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr82/kev_619_29/2010_10_25_0000.jpg
Secondary weapons
Spears
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll5/Chocobolifee/Spear_Item.png
Normal Mode: 14 Spears
Hard Mode: 7 Spears
NPC Price: 1500g per stack (10)
These are mainly used to stun enemies. Though the ammount of spears needed to stun an enemy varies by the size of the enemy. A polar bear would take a lot more spears to stun then a kobold chief. Unless you want to hit something specific, like the polar bear's red eye, this is best used on auto-throw near the enemy.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr82/kev_619_29/2010_10_24_0001.jpg?t=1288413666
Chain Hooks
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll5/Chocobolifee/Chain_Hook_Item.png
Normal Mode: 18 Chain hooks
Hard Mode: 9 Chain hooks
NPC price: 1500g per stack (10)
Chain Hooks are another way to restrain the enemy. They are far more difficult to use then a spear because normally you would have to aim at the legs to restrain an enemy and some enemies are impossible to restrain (Greed for example, bastard don't have legs). Not only that, but some enemies are too big to restrain by yourself (Like the polar bear), so you need other people to help you. Not only that, but you cannot attack the enemy if you are holding on to them. I guess that some of the benefits are that you can bring a few more than spears into a dungeon, and that it does not take too much hooks to restrain an enemy (Unless the enemy is too big). It may also have longer stun time.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr82/kev_619_29/2010_10_28_0007.jpg?t=1288413709
Small Bombs
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll5/Chocobolifee/Small_Bomb_Item.png
Normal Mode: 14 small bombs
Hard Mode: 7 small bombs
NPC price: 2600g per stack (10)
I haven't experienced much with this, but it does stun ennemies when it explodes at a certain radius from when it explodes. It explodes after around 8 seconds from being thrown. These are a bit more trickier to use because ennemies tend to move around a lot. These are not used to mine ores.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr82/kev_619_29/2010_10_24_0012.jpg?t=1287971783
Mine Bombs
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll5/Chocobolifee/Mine_Bomb_Item.png
Normal Mode: 12 mine bombs
Hard Mode: 6 mine bombs
NPC price: 700g per stack (5)
These sure as hell do not hurt or stun enemies. They are use to mine ores outta ore stacks. They may seem unimportant near the beginning, but you will find out how important they are when you start making equips at later levels. You can stun and do very little damage to enemies with these, but it is not as effective as small bombs.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr82/kev_619_29/2010_10_28_0002.jpg?t=1288413751
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr82/kev_619_29/2010_10_28_0003.jpg
Light of Plara
Normal Mode:
Hard Mode:
NPC price: 3900 per stack (5)
Requires rF Secondary Mastery (Currently Unattainable)
Can't say much about these since you can't even use them yet.
Harpoons
NPC price: 180g per stack (36)
These are used for fishing.
This guide is still not complete. If the information is false, please do not hesitate to correct me.
Things that needs to be done: -Add screenshots and more icons.
Andy-Buddy
10-24-2010, 07:57 PM
Are Spears and Bombs affected by Attack?
It seems it might be, but is it for sure?
Okitaru
10-24-2010, 08:05 PM
Should we craft them to save money?
No, you'd probably be losing more money then making.
...
Are you kidding me? crafting things like bombs saves you lots and lots of money, I've made 200 bombs off the money for 30.
And Bombs are good for stunning and sequence breaking. With Ainle I can't tell you how much faster you can run with bombs, and with bosses how easy they become to hit if you bomb lock them.
Ruquion
10-24-2010, 09:39 PM
Not sure if I made any mistakes in my calculations. Iron ores are according to market price in West
5 Wood Plank = 1200g = 240g ea
5 Gunpowder = 1500g = 300g ea
5 Metal Solvent = 600g = 120g ea
Metal Clamp = 200 ea
10 Spear = 300g + Iron Ore(~150g) + Wood Plank(240g) + Metal Clamp(200g) = ~890g
10 Chain Hook = 300g + Iron Ore(~150g) + Metal Clamp(200g) = ~650g
10 Small Bomb = 500g + Iron Ore(~150g) + Gunpowder(300g) = ~950g
5 Mine Bomb = 100g + Iron Ore(~150) + Gunpowder(300g) + Metal Solvent(120g) = ~670g
Chockeh
10-24-2010, 09:52 PM
@Andy-Buddy: Can't tell for sure, but I doubt it does increase the damage significantly enough.
@Chuukogu: I guess your right xD, thanks for table Ruquion.
UPDATE: SOME SCREENSHOTS!
Andy-Buddy
10-24-2010, 11:49 PM
There is a setting in options, under advanced controls:
It allows you to toggle the auto aim.
1. Box is Checked:
When checked tapping the secondary weapon button will fire, and holding it will bring you to the manual screen, where you can click to throw or press E to auto aim.
2. Box is Empty:
Pressing the Hotkey will bring you straight into the manual screen, where you can click to throw or auto aim with E.
Chockeh
10-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Ah really, thanks for the info.
I guess that some of the benifits are that you can bring a few more then spears into dungeon, and that it does not take too much hooks to restrain an enemy (Unless the enemy is too big), but the cons overshadows the pros imo.
Including bias isn't really a good way to write a study. Instead of stating your opinion that cons overshadow the pros, you should actually make a list of the cons and pros.
These sure as hell do not hurt or stun enemies. They are use to mine ores outta ore stacks. They may seem unimportant near the beginning, but you will find out how important they are when you start making equips at later levels.
Mine bombs cause a very small amount of damage, and do stun.
I like this a lot, thanks for posting it!
Chockeh
10-25-2010, 03:58 PM
@Rain...
What the, my mine bombs don't seem to damage :< or stun...
MUST NEED MORE TESTING
paladin
10-25-2010, 04:03 PM
@Rain...
What the, my mine bombs don't seem to damage :< or stun...
MUST NEED MORE TESTING
Ive seen it happen
It took like 3 solid mine hits thou
Chockeh
10-25-2010, 04:05 PM
Yay for fixing guide lots :D.
Cucurbita
10-25-2010, 04:25 PM
Mine Bombs do damage but a very insignificant amount. Not worth it.
You can craft Fine Bombs and Fine Spears that do extra damage and stun rate, but you need a higher rank Secondary Weapon Proficiency to use it.
Okitaru
10-25-2010, 05:17 PM
Mine Bombs do damage but a very insignificant amount. Not worth it.
You can craft Fine Bombs and Fine Spears that do extra damage and stun rate, but you need a higher rank Secondary Weapon Proficiency to use it.
Which someone didn't add into the game yet, correct?
It's like a lvl 18 skill too :<
Deathonabun
10-26-2010, 01:51 PM
The main advantage of chain hooks is that they stun an enemy for a good, long time. Even though it takes one or two party members out of commision, a few chain hooks can make a tough boss very trivial.
Also, hi. I'm new here.
risend
10-27-2010, 06:14 PM
I noticed this under bug fixes:
* Aodhan’s secondary weapon mastery quest button needs translated.
Does this mean the quest is available now, because I still can't find it.
Chockeh
10-27-2010, 06:36 PM
Fixed some grammar and tried to stop being biased.
Sinned
10-27-2010, 07:05 PM
I noticed this under bug fixes:
* Aodhan’s secondary weapon mastery quest button needs translated.
Does this mean the quest is available now, because I still can't find it.
someone on nexon forum was asking about that too (prepatch) because they saw someone use light of plara
Chockeh
10-30-2010, 12:39 AM
Yay more pictures!
This is a bump because you should expand this. It's a good guide and we just got new secondaries.
Chockeh
12-20-2010, 12:59 AM
I will over the holidays.
Exams right now D:!
Cucurbita
12-20-2010, 02:32 AM
60 AP away from maxing secondary weapon mastery rank.
I'll tell you how fine bombs are. Excited :D
Andy-Buddy
12-20-2010, 03:56 AM
Fine Spears: Making Spears look like Toothpicks.
Oh wait...
Well, they work out pretty well. Think how OP Spears were on boat 1, and that's how good they are on boat 4.
Give or take some awesome SPEAR PROWESS.
Cucurbita
12-20-2010, 01:19 PM
Fine Spears: Making Spears look like Toothpicks.
Oh wait...
Well, they work out pretty well. Think how OP Spears were on boat 1, and that's how good they are on boat 4.
Give or take some awesome SPEAR PROWESS.
Spears dont have enough knockdown bonus to be worth regular usage. They're pretty costly too.
Should be reserved strictly for "spear kill" bonus missions.
Bombs on the other hand get a ton of extra oomph.
Chockeh
12-20-2010, 02:58 PM
Please gimme any info if you can, make my life easier :D.
Well I'd like to barge in here and dump my opinions
Chain hooks are essentially useless.
-restricts a user or users to doing basically nothing while the boss/enemy is chained, where as the person could be dealing damage.
-can't be used to break off boss-attached items
I can only see its use in like fast moving bosses, e.g. Black Breeze, but then you'd have to aim at his leg anyways.
I'm not a fan of bombs as they're not as accurate and they like to bounce and roll halfway across the map from where I aimed.
But they do have a blast radius.
Cucurbita
12-20-2010, 08:15 PM
Well I'd like to barge in here and dump my opinions
Chain hooks are essentially useless.
-restricts a user or users to doing basically nothing while the boss/enemy is chained, where as the person could be dealing damage.
-can't be used to break off boss-attached items
I can only see its use in like fast moving bosses, e.g. Black Breeze, but then you'd have to aim at his leg anyways.
I'm not a fan of bombs as they're not as accurate and they like to bounce and roll halfway across the map from where I aimed.
But they do have a blast radius.
Chain Hooks aren't useless. They lock bosses longer than normal stun can.
Against stronger raid bosses, it takes 2 hooks to knock boss down.
2 hooks to get 8? (forget around how long) seconds of lock for remaining players vs 14? (depends on boss) spears to get 4? (depends on boss) seconds of lock for all players.
Two hooks are more effective if used properly. And I've seen it used pretty damn well.
You can keep bosses chained down during the entire fight. You'd run out of spears trying that.
^ I agree with this.
As long as the boss can be hooked, I bring hooks.
Nothing more satisfying than interrupting an attack and winding up saving your party mate who wouldn't have lived otherwise.
Downside: I have not used a chain hook since I changed to Evie.
Chain Hooks aren't useless. They lock bosses longer than normal stun can.
Against stronger raid bosses, it takes 2 hooks to knock boss down.
2 hooks to get 8? (forget around how long) seconds of lock for remaining players vs 14? (depends on boss) spears to get 4? (depends on boss) seconds of lock for all players.
Two hooks are more effective if used properly. And I've seen it used pretty damn well.
You can keep bosses chained down during the entire fight. You'd run out of spears trying that.
I believe Evie cannot chain hook. And completely useless soloing.
But by your philosophy, I'd have killed the boss way before you'd kill it using chain hooks. If a boss requires one person to constantly chain (assuming you'd have 4 people), you wouldn't be able to maximize damage done. With 4 people on one boss, its a simple matter of keeping the boss stunned continuously and that's not a problem with smashes, etc, and sometimes you wouldn't even need to throw a single spear. But then again that'd be assuming everyone was good at the game.
I'm not saying it doesn't has it uses though, its merely a matter of opinion.
Cucurbita
12-20-2010, 09:06 PM
But by your philosophy, I'd have killed the boss way before you'd kill it using chain hooks. If a boss requires one person to constantly chain (assuming you'd have 4 people), you wouldn't be able to maximize damage done. With 4 people on one boss, its a simple matter of keeping the boss stunned continuously and that's not a problem with smashes, etc, and sometimes you wouldn't even need to throw a single spear. But then again that'd be assuming everyone was good at the game.
I'm not saying it doesn't has it uses though, its merely a matter of opinion.
Raid bosses let 6 players through.
And a raid boss running around with 6 players trying to hit it?
Or
A raid boss that cannot move or attack with 4 players trying to hit it.
Most normal bosses of course go down with 1 hook, so thats nice too.
Yes, hooks are a party weapon. I dare not bring hooks when I solo or duo. Waste of effort and money.
Raid bosses let 6 players through.
And a raid boss running around with 6 players trying to hit it?
Or
A raid boss that cannot move or attack with 4 players trying to hit it.
Most normal bosses of course go down with 1 hook, so thats nice too.
Yes, hooks are a party weapon. I dare not bring hooks when I solo or duo. Waste of effort and money.
I probably haven't ever had a party over 4, if i do party with randoms, so forgive me if I'm wrong.
The only raid bosses i know of are the polar bears (i haven't messed around on boat 4 yet, and I'm not sure if other bosses count).
6 players with 42 spears (hard) seems more than enough to me, but of course, you wouldn't be able to guess perfectly where the boss lands, and stun doesn't happen, et cetera, there within where the problem lies.
I guess it's more of a cautious approach, and varies greatly with the amount of party members you have.
I'd do some actual calculations if I it mattered that much though.
it's fun to watch bosses flip upside down in upward positions though, I'll admit.
42/7=6 knockdowns.
If everyone brought hooks, it'd be like 25 knockdowns.
Cucurbita
12-20-2010, 09:42 PM
42/7=6 knockdowns.
If everyone brought hooks, it'd be like 25 knockdowns.
Don't forget, hook lock lasts twice as long as spear lock.
42/7=6 knockdowns.
If everyone brought hooks, it'd be like 25 knockdowns.
And bosses take 7 spears to knock down?
And I'm pretty sure a mix of hooks and spears would be better than all hooks, but you were just illustrating your point of how many hooks you could bring.
My theory is that using spears will let you beat a boss faster than hooks ever could, relying on spear's knockdown isn't necessarily a priority.
My theory is that using spears will let you beat a boss faster than hooks ever could, relying on spear's knockdown isn't necessarily a priority.
But that theory is wrong. If you have the boss down permaKD with hooks, it doesn't matter that one person isn't attacking, because the other three are attacking non-stop.
Cucurbita
12-20-2010, 09:56 PM
And bosses take 7 spears to knock down?
And I'm pretty sure a mix of hooks and spears would be better than all hooks, but you were just illustrating your point of how many hooks you could bring.
My theory is that using spears will let you beat a boss faster than hooks ever could, relying on spear's knockdown isn't necessarily a priority.
Of course secondary weapons are completely unnecessary. It just helps a lot and speeds things up.
And of course I never said everyone should bring chain hooks.
But yes, to respond, it takes 6 spears to bring down a polar bear. 7 to knock down a giant spider.
And I believe well over 10 to get a Rhagodessa. I know its more for Red Tyrant.
Chain hooks are always fixed at 2 for large bosses, 1 for small bosses.
Spear Locking is definitely more effective than hooks in a White Tyrant raid and Hidden raid, but in Blood Lord or Red Tyrant raid, you'd be doing your team a GREAT favor by bringing chain hooks with one buddy.
Though I don't know about the extra large ones like Titan. Can you even hook those? Flash bangs might be better.
I like to bang large beings.
Cucurbita
12-20-2010, 10:07 PM
Flash bang is really nice since its a short guaranteed stun, but you can only hold 3 QQ
But that theory is wrong. If you have the boss down permaKD with hooks, it doesn't matter that one person isn't attacking, because the other three are attacking non-stop.
If you got the boss on repeated knockdowns with regular stuns without hooks, you'd be about 27% as efficient.
but I'll let it go. I did say hook had they're uses, in my defense.
I still prefer blocking/dodging because in my elitist mind, it requires more 'skill'.
Cucurbita
12-20-2010, 10:13 PM
I still prefer blocking/dodging because in my elitist mind, it requires more 'skill'.
Well that makes ALL secondary weapons kinda moot (except mine bombs) since they mostly exist for locking the boss.
Spear lock, bomb lock, flash lock, hook lock.
I usually DO hold spears though, since they have the most use overall.
I find myself carrying a ton of bombs lately because I have toad genocide to initiate... and they have so much hp.
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