Is the Avon Shield pointless other than for looks?

[BecomeMeguca]

Both the dragon shield and avon shield have 3 upgrades.
Dragon Shield Base stats are 2/2
Avon Shield is 4/2

However, dragon shield has 20 hidden passive defense while avon shield only has 15 def. Thus, the belita map event flooding the server with dragon shields makes the avon shield pointless statwise? Obviously people will still want it for looks.

[♪★ Scandalous ☆ ♫]

I think Avon shield is pretty ugly compared to the shields we have available to us now.
I was hoping nobody cared enough about that +2 base defense, so that comp/d-shield prices wouldn't drop to completely unprofitable levels.
Then the belita map event happened...

[Chiyuri]

I like the + 10 Charge Efficiency bonus...

which is one of the main reason I'll get the shield.

[Syrion]

it does have the 10 charge enhance

*edit: wow ninjaed, but ya, the community may not realize the 5 missing passive defense*

[Chiyuri]

Also.. even if events flood the servers with dragon shield.. there will always be a need for more since the event DS will have found some owners at some point and the event will end..

In term of accessibility, Avon shield is more accessible due to G14 giving us the manual so in the end, some people will choose to make the avon shield instead of getting their hands on a dragon shield.

[Dixon]

http://oi51.tinypic.com/1r2nv8.jpg

http://forum.nexon.net/PopTag/forums/permalink/7043222/7041894/ShowThread.aspx#7041894

[Kingofrunes]

Personally it don't matter to me. I never use charge anyways. I prefer to do slashing, windmilling, assault slashing, and zapping with thunder rather than charge at my opponent. Go go Thunder! Zap your worries away *whistles*

Still, either shield is welcome for when I do use magic though.

[Oizen]

Depends on what the Charge enhance does

But I'm content with my Dragon Shield.

[Tropa]

Depends on what the Charge enhance does

But I'm content with my Dragon Shield.

Same, its finish with upgrades, 9/4<3
now i just need to rigit colonel it

[Chiyuri]

Depends on what the Charge enhance does


10% increase in damage. So yea.. mostly only giants can make use of that the most.

[Kingofrunes]

Ya, I think I'll stick with Dragon Shield and just sell G14 Scripts *stretch*

10% Damage isn't much, especially with how little Damage Charge does anyways.

[Chiyuri]

Giant Lancer with an Avon shield could be a serious power house through..

[Eirys]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY6g026ecx4oEnWVLMxp5VdmFPlFSyZ MQ4twWF1hwMmvI0_oakbg

Heard it was supposed to be best shield from some random person.

It's so original too!

[Kingofrunes]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY6g026ecx4oEnWVLMxp5VdmFPlFSyZ MQ4twWF1hwMmvI0_oakbg

Heard it was supposed to be best shield from some random person.

It's so original too!

It's overly hyped apparently since DevCat removed a lot of the more noteworthy points of the shield :tea:

Also the fact that it looks like a dressed up Kite Shield is a complete turn off.

[Dixon]

It's overly hyped apparently since DevCat removed a lot of the more noteworthy points of the shield :tea:

Also the fact that it looks like a dressed up Kite Shield is a complete turn off.

Nope, people just wildly overstated the effects the first time the news was going around.


Giant Lancer with an Avon shield could be a serious power house through..

Wrong again. Charge Enhance has no effect on Lance Charge. Just like Flame Burst Enhance has no effect on Heat Buster and Healing Enhance has no effect on Party Healing.

[Eirys]

It's overly hyped apparently since DevCat removed a lot of the more noteworthy points of the shield :tea:

Also the fact that it looks like a dressed up Kite Shield is a complete turn off.

Could I maybe do something about that turn off? ;D ;D

[Chiyuri]

Wrong again. Charge Enhance has no effect on Lance Charge. Just like Flame Burst Enhance has no effect on Heat Buster and Healing Enhance has no effect on Party Healing.

May I ask where in my post I said that I was talking about Lance Charge..... From various video, I've seen that many Lancers use normal charge a lot.. This is what my post ment.. please do not add unrelated meanings to my post just to counter those unrelated meaning and say I,m wrong...

[Syrion]

there has been some debate over whether dragon shield actually has 20 hidden defense

some has changed the wiki stats to 15 hidden defense

@Tropacat: Rigid not guardian?

[Kingofrunes]

there has been some debate over whether dragon shield actually has 20 hidden defense

some has changed the wiki stats to 15 hidden defense

@Tropacat: Rigid not guardian?

Ya I've heard debates on that too. But frankly, seeing that I already got the Dragon shield, I may as well keep with what I got ya know.

If I didn't have a Dragon Shield I would be more than happy to get the Avon Shield.

[Murasaki]

It's overly hyped apparently since DevCat removed a lot of the more noteworthy points of the shield :tea:

Also the fact that it looks like a dressed up Kite Shield is a complete turn off.

As stated in the thread where this image first appeared: The drawing makes them look more similar than they actually are.
Easiest two differences to spot: The outline shape, and the circle at the "center".

I say for people who can't get the Dragon Shield (I'll probably be one of them), Avon is a nice alternative if they don't have to spend too much.

[Dixon]

May I ask where in my post I said that I was talking about Lance Charge..... From various video, I've seen that many Lancers use normal charge a lot.. This is what my post ment.. please do not add unrelated meanings to my post just to counter those unrelated meaning and say I,m wrong...

Your explanation makes less sense than the 'unrelated meaning'.

Charge damage is based on your UNARMED damage. Its use is negligible outside of its ability to repel physical missile attacks and inflict long stun. Lance Charge is based on your WEAPON damage. A %-based damage increase would actually be WORTH TALKING ABOUT if you were talking about Lance Charge.

You were better off being wrong than desperately trying to save face like that.

[Kingofrunes]

As stated in the thread where this image first appeared: The drawing makes them look more similar than they actually are.
Easiest two differences to spot: The outline shape, and the circle at the "center".

I say for people who can't get the Dragon Shield (I'll probably be one of them), Avon is a nice alternative if they don't have to spend too much.

Well as I also mentioned I would get the Avon Shield if I didn't have a Dragon Shield already which pretty much means I agree with you.

The shield still looks like a dressed up Kite Shield looking at that picture. :tea:

[Chiyuri]

Your explanation makes less sense than the 'unrelated meaning'.

Charge damage is based on your UNARMED damage. Its use is negligible outside of its ability to repel physical missile attacks and inflict long stun. Lance Charge is based on your WEAPON damage. A %-based damage increase would actually be WORTH TALKING ABOUT if you were talking about Lance Charge.

You were better off being wrong than desperately trying to save face like that.

Yes I am aware of this.. But I'll like to ask you how many melee giants with high ranked charge you has seen using the skill. The damage is not to be disregarded when you also end up using it a lot. Not to mentions lancers usualy avoid getting hit so extra def from a dragon shield compared to a 10% power boost for charge is a good reason to have the avon shield instead of dragon.

[Dixon]

Yes I am aware of this.. But I'll like to ask you how many melee giants with high ranked charge you has seen using the skill. The damage is not to be disregarded when you also end up using it a lot. Not to mentions lancers usualy avoid getting hit so extra def from a dragon shield compared to a 10% power boost for charge is a good reason to have the avon shield instead of dragon.

Dragon Shield doesn't have more defense than Avon Shield.

Even if it did, Giants can't use Dragon Shields.


Your argument is like Swiss cheese. Full of holes.

[Kingofrunes]

Dragon Shield doesn't have more defense than Avon Shield.

Even if it did, Giants can't use Dragon Shields.


Your argument is like Swiss cheese. Full of holes.

Seeing that Giants can't use Dragon Shields, Avon Shields are still a decent alternative for them. Yes?

Or should they be sticking to Vales Shield or some other Giant Only Shield :what:

[Chiyuri]

Dragon Shield doesn't have more defense than Avon Shield.

Even if it did, Giants can't use Dragon Shields.


Your argument is like Swiss cheese. Full of holes.

You got me on the dragon shield part.. didn't know giants couldn't use it.

You have yet to find more than 1 hole.. I doubt Swiss cheese have only 1 hole in them..

[Retard]

Dragon shield has +15 hidden defense, the only shield with above 15 is Composite an Vales

[♪★ Scandalous ☆ ♫]

Why aren't people comparing Avon Shield with Composite Shield from Synthesis (Possible 2/2) It also receives 3 upgrades, and +17 passive defense..2 more than shield of Avon.
Which makes the base stats identical to the Former.
Wiki says the melee defense while skill is active is +50, and ranged is +35, for composite shield.
Which is the opposite for Avon... I think Composite shield looks better aswell...

[Kingofrunes]

Why aren't people comparing Avon Shield with Composite Shield from Synthesis (Possible 2/2) It also receives 3 upgrades, and +17 passive defense..2 more than shield of Avon.
Which arguably makes the base stats identical to the Former.
Wiki says the melee defense while skill is active is +50, and ranged is +35.
Which is the opposite for Avon... I think Composite shield looks better aswell... and it can be made with more durability.

Good point. The Composite Shield would outperform both the Dragon Shield and Avon Shield for Humans/Elves wouldn't it?

[Chiyuri]

Why aren't people comparing Avon Shield with Composite Shield from Synthesis (Possible 2/2) It also receives 3 upgrades, and +17 passive defense..2 more than shield of Avon.
Which makes the base stats identical to the Former.
Wiki says the melee defense while skill is active is +50, and ranged is +35, for composite shield.
Which is the opposite for Avon... I think Composite shield looks better aswell...

For an human composite is probably better than avon unless that human really insist on fighting more archers than melees.

[Kingofrunes]

For an human composite is probably better than avon unless that human really insist on fighting more archers than melees.

I could do with less archers. Hate those bastards. *pulls out Thunder Wand*

Starts zapping them all to hell. *pants*

Only problem with the Comp Shield is it's cost.

I can't afford a Comp Shield. I couldn't afford a Dragon Shield either...

Mabi Currency Wise. If I could buy it with RL Money though....

awesomeface.jpg

Which is why I have a Dragon Shield atm.

[Syrion]

You got me on the dragon shield part.. didn't know giants couldn't use it.

You have yet to find more than 1 hole.. I doubt Swiss cheese have only 1 hole in them..

its a swiss donut~!

[Intimacy]

Dragon Shield doesn't have more defense than Avon Shield.

Even if it did, Giants can't use Dragon Shields.


Your argument is like Swiss cheese. Full of holes.
Whats wrong with holes, everyone loves holes! (innuendo here)

[radionoise]

Good point. The Composite Shield would outperform both the Dragon Shield and Avon Shield for Humans/Elves wouldn't it?

For melee attacks, 4/2 Avon > 2/2 Composite = 3/2 Dragon > 1/2 Composite = 2/2 Dragon. Giants can also use Composite Shield.


Wiki says the melee defense while skill is active is +50, and ranged is +35, for composite shield.
Which is the opposite for Avon... I think Composite shield looks better aswell...

It's the same for both, at least in gameabout.. don't think JP wiki has complete info on those stats.

[psyal]

I'd think that the Shield of Avon is meant to go against archers, as it has that charge bonus, plus its melee and ranged defense are swapped for while using Defense(+35 against Melee, +50 against Ranged), giving it the best ranged defense of all shields while using Defense.

For melee though, I'd say it is beaten by the others ones stated.

[♪★ Scandalous ☆ ♫]

I could do with less archers. Hate those bastards. *pulls out Thunder Wand*

Starts zapping them all to hell. *pants*

Only problem with the Comp Shield is it's cost.


You can argue the same for Avon Shield, since you'll be buying those scripts to make it.
It takes 4-5 Scripts?
I'll just take other G-prizes(minus Alchemist es) as a price point on the scripts.
Assume they're 300k each.
I think the chances are high for making a composite shield with 1.5Million gold.
If you start buying 50k or cheaper Bianca Layered Skirts now, and farming/buying cheap kite shields, it'd basically be eliminating the need for Avon Shield.



For melee attacks, 4/2 Avon > 2/2 Composite = 3/2 Dragon > 1/2 Composite = 2/2 Dragon. Giants can also use Composite Shield.


I guess Avon shield is 1 defense better than comp, if you use that Gem Upgrade.
But, If they truly have the same defenses on skill activation.. They're practically the same.

[Cathaoir]

You can argue the same for Avon Shield, since you'll be buying those scripts to make it.
It takes 4-5 Scripts?
I'll just take other G-prizes(minus Alchemist es) as a price point on the scripts.
Assume they're 300k each.
I think the chances are high for making a composite shield with 1.5Million gold.
If you start buying 50k or cheaper Bianca Layered Skirts now, and farming/buying cheap kite shields, it'd basically be eliminating the need for Avon Shield

Implying that many people who want the Shield of Avon wont be on alts spamming g13/14.

[Kingofrunes]

You can argue the same for Avon Shield, since you'll be buying those scripts to make it.
It takes 4-5 Scripts?
I'll just take other G-prizes(minus Alchemist es) as a price point on the scripts.
Assume they're 300k each.
I think the chances are high for making a composite shield with 1.5Million gold.
If you start buying 50k or cheaper Bianca Layered Skirts now, and farming/buying cheap kite shields, it'd basically be eliminating the need for Avon Shield.




I guess Avon shield is 1 defense better than comp, if you use that Gem Upgrade.
But, If they truly have the same defenses on skill activation.. They're practically the same.

I wouldn't be buying the scripts for it. I'm quite content with my Dragon Shield anyways. From what I gathered from trop, I can get 12/5 from my Dragon Shield with the right upgrades :smoke:

I was using a Heater Shield Before, so it's not like it's too important to me.

[Perfectio]

I always thought that Comp Shield was the most redundant, especially for the resources needed to make it, and the possibility that you could spit out a crappy one. Keep in mind the Dragon Shield needs to come out perfectly in Smithing to compete too. And both will be more costly resource wise than Avon (probably the biggest cost you'll have to deal with is getting the blacksmith to make one for you)

Avon will still be the best shield, especially in Mabinogi come G14, though not nearly as dominating as it was purported to be. Not to mention you'll potentially be getting it at a cost of close to zero.

[Syrion]

in theory u can synth something ridiculous like a 4 def 5 prot composite shield

[Azareel]

in theory u can synth something ridiculous like a 4 def 5 prot composite shield

...What?

[Aubog007]

in theory u can synth something ridiculous like a 4 def 5 prot composite shield

No.
There is a cap on the range of modifiers you can get from synthesis.

[Syrion]

No.
There is a cap on the range of modifiers you can get from synthesis.

i said that with the cap in mind

idk about the 5 prot, but the 4 def is possible

general range is -4/+3, but im not sure if it applies for protection

[Benier]

Implying that many people who want the Shield of Avon wont be on alts spamming g13/14.

*just finished 5th G13 on alt*

[Cathaoir]

*just finished 5th G13 on alt*

I can probably get all my alts g14 ready pretty quickly. That also being said, most of my alts are below total lvl 100, making it really easy to spam.

[Cryosite]

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae174/CryositeMabi/CompositeG13.jpg

Artisan upgrades came out after I had already gem upgraded it. Don't think I'll really worry too much about it though. I'll still get a Shield of Avon though, as it seems like they'll be super easy to get.

[Retard]

i said that with the cap in mind

idk about the 5 prot, but the 4 def is possible

general range is -4/+3, but im not sure if it applies for protection
Lol first you say drag shield is +15 hidden and now you spill crap that isnt true about sything 4/5 composite shields. I hope no one is actually believing you.

[Andy-Buddy]

Lol first you say drag shield is +15 hidden and now you spill crap that isnt true about sything 4/5 composite shields. I hope no one is actually believing you.

Wasn't it your thread where there was an argument about if it was 15 or 20? Isn't he stating what's been proved already?

No need to call him out.

[Nibnibnib]

I don't know if this has been mentioned in the thread yet, because I didn't bother to read all of it, but; Despite what the NA Wiki may say, it's been proven that the Dragon Shield only has 15 hidden defense. I've tried to update this many times, but someone always feels the need to reset it.

Shield of Avon>Composite Shield>Dragon Shield.

[radionoise]

I don't know if this has been mentioned in the thread yet, because I didn't bother to read all of it, but; Despite what the NA Wiki may say, it's been proven that the Dragon Shield only has 15 hidden defense. I've tried to update this many times, but someone always feels the need to reset it.

Shield of Avon>Composite Shield>Dragon Shield.

It has been mentioned here and in other threads.

I updated the wiki to 15 a few days ago and no one has reset it yet, so I guess that's a good sign?

[Nibnibnib]

It has been mentioned here and in other threads.

I updated the wiki to 15 a few days ago and no one has reset it yet, so I guess that's a good sign?Oh, cool.

Shield of Avon(7/2 15% ping, 9/4 10% ping, 11/4 5% ping. Also 10% Charge damage.)>Dragon Shield(10/4 5% ping, 6/2 15% ping, 8/4 10% ping.)>Composite Shield(8/4 10% ping, 6/2 15% ping, 10/4 5% ping.)

I added the +2 hidden defense for Composite shield. I heard somewhere that hidden defense doesn't work the same as normal defense. If that's true, and it's calculated with protection differently, Dragon Shield>Composite Shield. If not, they're basically the exact same.

[radionoise]

Oh, cool.

Shield of Avon(7/2 15% ping, 9/4 10% ping, 11/4 5% ping. Also 10% Charge damage.)>Dragon Shield(10/4 5% ping, 6/2 15% ping, 8/4 10% ping.)>Composite Shield(8/4 10% ping, 6/2 15% ping, 10/4 5% ping.)

I added the +2 hidden defense for Composite shield. I heard somewhere that hidden defense doesn't work the same as normal defense. If that's true, and it's calculated with protection differently, Dragon Shield>Composite Shield. If not, they're basically the exact same.

All I can say for certain is that hidden defense only affects melee attacks (not range) and magic is irrelevant since the formula change. However, I have heard that hidden defense holds more weight than regular defense, and not just for dueling (when the hidden defense glitch wasn't patched).

[Oizen]

So the Charge enhance only increases damage?

In that case I'll stick with my Dragon Sheild, I only use charge to start alchemy combos

[Syrion]

Lol first you say drag shield is +15 hidden and now you spill crap that isnt true about sything 4/5 composite shields. I hope no one is actually believing you.

http://mabination.com/threads/24218-DRAGON-SHIELD-HAS-15-HIDDEN-NOT-20

LOL?

anyway, i hope you're trolling for about 90% of ur posts, you're beginning to make me lose faith in the human race


However, I have heard that hidden defense holds more weight than regular defense, and not just for dueling (when the hidden defense glitch wasn't patched).

Any idea how so? Does it apply post-protection?