I thought alchemy was all about "equivalent exchange"...

[Spartaaaaa]

Synthesizing battle short sword, two-handed sword and claymore to make a battle short sword is not equivalent exchange! I also synthesized 3 black smith manuals together and got wool! GG Nexon.:ghost::barf::doom::died::stress::tea:

[Chiri]

But in FMA, they prove there isn't equivalent exchange~

[Lie]

Like how it takes 5 Copper Ingots to "convert" into 1 Silver Ingot?

It's not a closed system, so equivalent exchange is virtually impossible. You get matter/energy lost when trying to change the molecular structure in an open system.

[Hiccup]

This is LIFE not some anime >:l

[Chiri]

This is fantasy LIFE not some anime >:l

Fixed~

[Chockeh]

Well...
At least you can have the suit from FMA.

[Cucurbita]

"Equivalent Exchange" is purely Full Metal Alchemist.

And has nothing to do with "alchemy" itself.

Alchemy was the practice of turning metals to gold, and to find the methods of creating life extending methods. In this sense, it makes no sense that equivalent exchange would apply at all.

Besides, the entire journey of FMA was to prove that equivalent exchange was wrong.

[Okitaru]

"Equivalent Exchange" is purely Full Metal Alchemist.

And has nothing to do with "alchemy" itself.

Alchemy was the practice of turning metals to gold, and to find the methods of creating life extending methods. In this sense, it makes no sense that equivalent exchange would apply at all.

Besides, the entire journey of FMA was to prove that equivalent exchange was wrong.

This.


Some beliefs of alchemy branched towards the idea of magic rather than anything even, while some were based on what was quoted above.

[Andy-Buddy]

Like how it takes 5 Copper Ingots to "convert" into 1 Silver Ingot?

It's not a closed system, so equivalent exchange is virtually impossible. You get matter/energy lost when trying to change the molecular structure in an open system.

Then again, you could turn Iron Ore into Copper Ingots, so that's not bad.

[Lie]

Then again, you could turn Iron Ore into Copper Ingots, so that's not bad.

You can't. Except for Unknown -> Iron, any metal "advancing" to a "higher level" of metal must be of the same solid state.

For example, you can only get Silver Ingots by converting Copper Ingots only. You cannot get it with Copper Ore or Copper Ore Fragments, but only Copper Ingots.

The only metal that can used for any state is Unknown Ore Fragment -> Iron Ore/Ore Fragment/Ingot.

[Taycat]

Lol you and your thinking everything in Anime is right :3

[Kueh]

First off, devCAT, not Nexon, makes the game content.

Secondly, decCAT obviously painted their own form of alchemy (Spoiler*Where the source of power for alchemical transmutations comes from the dark erg that is supplied by Noitar Arat, Palala's opposite, the dark sun of the shadow realm.)

Since it's their own idea, they get to make their own alchemy do whatever they want.

[Bwee]

But in FMA, they prove there isn't equivalent exchange~

lol spoiler alert.
Anyway, I believe everyone has covered the subject thoroughly, sorry if this is necro posting, but I had to lookey here with that subject line. =w=

[Fracture]

Like it's been said-- it IS equivalent exchange, but a good portion of the matter is lost due to it being an open system or used for energy due to the fact that quite often, you're not just melding materials into a different form, you're actually changing the material which requires changing the atomic structure which, in turn, requires INSANE amounts of energy

[Iyasenu]

Like it's been said-- it IS equivalent exchange, but a good portion of the matter is lost due to it being an open system or used for energy due to the fact that quite often, you're not just melding materials into a different form, you're actually changing the material which requires changing the atomic structure which, in turn, requires INSANE amounts of STEAM energy

or a steam oven, apparently.

[Fracture]

Steam just helps the transition. If you ever manage to use steam alone to change the atomic structure of an element to convert, for instance, wood into lead, let me know. xD

[Screenhog]

Spoiler of FMA! (The point of the show was to prove equivalent exchange was a load of crap, that there was no equivalent exchange.)
And as said above, it was an Anime show, not meant to be taken seriously, as well as Mabinogi's version of alchemy.

Off topic: Fracture, whats up? :D Do you remember me? o3o

[Fracture]

In reality though, if there were to be anything close to Alchemy, it would be equivalent exchange by way of pro-/neu-/electrons for matter along with an energy source.

And yeah, I do. Long time no see. I've been playing Vindictus lately lol.

[Sora0147]

Nothing is equal, it's kind of a given at this point. The fact of the matter is nexon decides what they do with their skills :c

[Kueh]

Why is this thread still alive?

[Fracture]

Soranecro. D<

[Arsik]

Guys, the reason why this thread hasn't closed is because it isn't a necro. On this site, a necropost is 2 months or more. It's only been a month between when Fracture posted last and when Sora posted last. Also, don't cry necropost in the necropost, you're only gravedigging yourself. Instead, report the necropost and a staff member will take care of it. Telling someone they necroposted is, in essence, backseat modding, which is just as much as a bad thing as necroposting. So don't backseat mod, especially if you don't know the rules for the site. Dx

[Wonnetz]

NEW MATTER CAN NOT BE CREATED NOR DESTROYED


thats what my science teacher said >.>

[Cucurbita]

NEW MATTER CANNON BE CREATED NOR DESTROYED


thats what my science teacher said >.>

You mean cannot, right?

First of all, we really need to stop bumping this thread from death. Happening too much.

Second, we all know this fact. But alchemy isn't creating matter or destroying it, but basically changing it.

[Wonnetz]

Oh...im sorry i revived it gosh i was just looking through stuff and i found this....SORRY

[Cucurbita]

Oh...im sorry i revived it gosh i was just looking through stuff and i found this....SORRY

Not much of a problem according to what arsik said above our post.

But it does seem to have a clinging life.

[EndlessDreams]

You mean cannot, right?

First of all, we really need to stop bumping this thread from death. Happening too much.

Second, we all know this fact. But alchemy isn't creating matter or destroying it, but basically changing it.

No, in Mabinogi, alchemy can result in the destruction of matter. Try putting your equipments in synthesis/fragmentation, and then see it fail. You don't get anything back.

Unless you argue that nothing is something.

[Cucurbita]

No, in Mabinogi, alchemy can result in the destruction of matter. Try putting your equipments in synthesis/fragmentation, and then see it fail. You don't get anything back.

Unless you argue that nothing is something.

It could be just ashes and dust molecules that are so worthless that you decide not to keep.
Or it could turn to gas.

[Kueh]

You see all that smoke continuously pouring from the ovens?

Those are your equips.

[Wonnetz]

so they turned into steam and went into the air? y can we just put them back in a jar and see if they come back or somtin lol

[Pierce]

Enjoyed reading this thread very much, thank you for bumping, heh. Kudos to Zid and Kitae for the great answers.

[Kitsunebi]

FMA has been ruined for me after reading this thread! :T_T:

Anyway

No, in Mabinogi, alchemy can result in the destruction of matter. Try putting your equipments in synthesis/fragmentation, and then see it fail. You don't get anything back.

Unless you argue that nothing is something.

Mater could be turned into dark matter through the fail process! :D

Dark Matter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter)

[Xemnas]

so they turned into steam and went into the air? y can we just put them back in a jar and see if they come back or somtin lol

The Fomors breathe in the air and the item reforms in their body, resulting in it being dropped on their death. Of course it's not 100% successful, and it often causes Fomors to explode into a fine mist themselves once they are defeated in battle.

[Fabian]

This thread wants to live! xD

But yeah, after watching/reading FMA, everything that has to do with alchemy has to follow FMA's rules!!! I mean, as many ppl already said, in the end the equivalent exchange was proven wrong, but it still seemed like something extremely logical, didn't it?XD

So yeah, keep the thread alive o3o

Plus mabinogi follows equivalent exchange...like when using water cannon...you have to use crystals which are made from compressed water XD!

[Intex]

This thread was already straying from Mabinogi and last post was pretty irrelevant so I'm going to lock this thread. If you want to talk about alchemy in FMA you should create a topic in Anime and Manga (http://mabination.com/forums/54-Anime-and-Manga).