Fiona general guide.

[Renges65]

Found this thread a bit ago where people are discussing rank 9 Butterfly Swing.

Nexon Forums - Rank 9 Butterfly (http://forum.nexon.net/Vindictus/forums/thread/6052001.aspx)

[risend]

Found this thread a bit ago where people are discussing rank 9 Butterfly Swing.

Nexon Forums - Rank 9 Butterfly (http://forum.nexon.net/Vindictus/forums/thread/6052001.aspx)

Half the people in that thread is talking about swords Smash #3 combo Ivy sweep and not butterfly. Butterfly only goes to rank A as far as I know in both versions of Vindictus.

[heretic304]

You can also pull off six blossom blows in about the same amaranth time if you HS cancel. I find myself doing Amaranth less and less...I would actually be interested in a Ivy Sweep calculation vs. Amaranth, as Ivy R9 seems to do a ton of damage with that added kick, and it can also be pulled off a lot faster than an Amaranth. The only time Amaranth is really viable is if you PG into it...but I find myself CA'ing in that situation more than anything.

It would depend on the situation. Sure 6 blossom blows is great, but the stamina usage for that is immense compared to that of a single amaranth kick. 42 stamina per triple blossom vs 18 stamina for 1 amaranth kick makes it clear why it's still a useful smash. I often find it better, and safer, to do one amaranth and a single or double blossom if time allows. And in my experience a triple blossom seems to take about the same time as 1 amaranth, so I'm not sure how you're able to do 6 of them. If you're talking 3 double blossoms, that seems quite impossible since it requires 2 normal hits per combo.

Assuming you're talking about a downed boss, let's not forget to mention that amaranth's animation cancels much more quickly than a triple blossom or a triple Ivy. So using that on a downed boss allows for some strategic variations. For example, something with a long KD time will allow for an Amaranth and a Blossom or double Blossom. Something with a shorter KD time will allow you to time your Amaranth so that it land as it gets up and becomes vulnerable to KD again and still give you time to cancel in case it doesn't fall down. If you were to try doing that with blossom or ivy sweep, you'd require nearly the full smash combo to get that, and since they don't cancel as quickly, you'll be more vulnerable to getting hit as well.

[rymd]

yeah what heretic said
r9 blossom kind of disappointed me because the stamina cost was insane and it took too long to use. it sucks that the third blossom takes so long to complete too and can't be canceled very fast. i kind of find myself switching between blossom, ivy, and amaranth frequently, depending on the situation.

[Andy-Buddy]

yeah what heretic said
r9 blossom kind of disappointed me because the stamina cost was insane and it took too long to use. it sucks that the third blossom takes so long to complete too and can't be canceled very fast. i kind of find myself switching between blossom, ivy, and amaranth frequently, depending on the situation.

That's sort of the beauty of using a sword. You can switch between play styles and adapt to different situations, be it bosses or a large number of mob monsters.

Hammers also have that beauty, just you give up some ability to react.

[Andy-Buddy]

Does anyone know exactly what Large Shield Pros and Cons are?

[Arendel]

Does anyone know exactly what Large Shield Pros and Cons are?
Pros: Better defense and durability, and Heavy Stander keeps you from getting pushed back at all while costing less stamina.
Cons: No counterattack or retaliation bonuses after r9+ perfect guard.

[Andy-Buddy]

Pros: Better defense and durability, and Heavy Stander keeps you from getting pushed back at all while costing less stamina.
Cons: No counterattack or retaliation bonuses after r9+ perfect guard.

Thanks.

Anyone know if it takes longer to go into HS? And you can still GCHS with it, right?

[Cucurbita]

Thanks.

Anyone know if it takes longer to go into HS? And you can still GCHS with it, right?

What the heck is GCHS...?

It takes the same amount of time to set up guard and heavy stander. Basically, the only real difference here is that you gain more defensive capabilities while losing retaliation.

No counter. You don't get the 3rd hit startup on perfect guard either. And it weighs more stones, obviously.

The advantage here is that you're pretty much invincible as long as you hold your heavy stander. Very useful against raid bosses and runs where the enemies all do nothing but smash.

Edit: Oh, GCHS. I'm not sure.

[Baku]

GCHS = Guard Cancel Heavy Stander.

Also, I wonder if large shields will become useless with Heavy Stander Counter.. since you can only do that with small shield. I guess it will depend on how useful(damage/stun?) HSC is.

[Cucurbita]

GCHS = Guard Cancel Heavy Stander.

Also, I wonder if large shields will become useless with Heavy Stander Counter.. since you can only do that with small shield. I guess it will depend on how useful(damage/stun?) HSC is.

It was already kinda worthless as it was.

They need to give large shields a huge buff. Or a large shield only attack.

[Baku]

Well not exactly worthless, the pros wasn't that great, but Fiona really sucks against raid bosses, and Large Shields made a little better. But yeah, they definitely need a buff right now.

[Andy-Buddy]

Well not exactly worthless, the pros wasn't that great, but Fiona really sucks against raid bosses, and Large Shields made a little better. But yeah, they definitely need a buff right now.

Damage Return GOGOGO!

[Cucurbita]

Damage Return GOGOGO!

See that would be kinda cool but once again makes it only worth using against raid bosses.

Not that devCAT has EVER managed to balance ANYTHING in the past, but I'm hoping to see Large Shields buffed in a way that there would be incentives to use outside of raid boss combat.

Same with hammers, I suppose. Capping skills at rank A kinda makes using them pointless if sword skills can go much further.

[Baku]

But the point of large shields was never to be used outside of big ass bosses D:
It was never intended for people to choose one type of shield and only use that, one type of shield good for something, the other good for another thing, change equipment depending on what you are facing.

[Cucurbita]

But the point of large shields was never to be used outside of big ass bosses D:
It was never intended for people to choose one type of shield and only use that, one type of shield good for something, the other good for another thing, change equipment depending on what you are facing.

Would be cool if we could actually change gear in mid dungeon run.

[Baku]

But raid bosses only have 1 room pre-boss o3o and sometimes no pre-boss room at all.
I don't disagree though, would be nice. But if you carried one shield and a large shield you'd need to carry a lot of weight, and it should use a hotkey slot.

[Cucurbita]

But raid bosses only have 1 room pre-boss o3o and sometimes no pre-boss room at all.
I don't disagree though, would be nice. But if you carried one shield and a large shield you'd need to carry a lot of weight, and it should use a hotkey slot.

Willing to accommodate.

[Baku]

Update


11/12/2010
-Added "Charts" section.
+Percentile charts from my other thread (http://mabination.com/vindictus/vindictus-guides/12480-damage-formulas-percentiles.html)
+New chart, showing damage per second, damage per stamina.


I've been wanting to do a DPS table for a while, finally got to it, I found the results to be quite interesting, hope more people do so too.

[heretic304]

Nice Charts =D It does prove that Amaranth is still quite useful. Though I do wonder if you took into account the Mastery bonuses. Like for instance, you can't have Double Blossom without at least the rank F percentage boost, and you can't have Triple Blossom without at least the rank 9 Percentage boost and whatnot.

[Baku]

Nice Charts =D It does prove that Amaranth is still quite useful. Though I do wonder if you took into account the Mastery bonuses. Like for instance, you can't have Double Blossom without at least the rank F percentage boost, and you can't have Triple Blossom without at least the rank 9 Percentage boost and whatnot.
I did not, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'll take a look at this when I get back from school, and see if I do anything about this.

edit: Alright, decided not to do anything about that, since it is base percentile we are talking about, you can use the damage formula to get an idea of your own DPS depending on your ranks.
Just multiply by PPS instead of Percentile.

edit2: I forgot to mention that my Fiona is shortest height, so:


Note: This was done with shortest Fiona.
I did a test with a tallest Fiona with Amaranth Kick, Magnolia(Blossom #1) and Bamboo Splitter
Times are (NO GCHS):
LLLLR 4,5'' (0,2'' slower)
LLR 2,6'' (0,1'' slower)
LR 2,4'' (difference is 0,01'')

[Pandie]

Thanks for the great guide! I watch your videos and keep thinking how you have great control over your character! Helps me a lot in mine. ^^

[heretic304]

I wonder what all the intermediary heights will produce for attack speeds =o I should time my Fiona since she's 1 step above shortest xD

I also need to find better recording software =\ The Vindictus built-in one lags me like crazy D;

[TixTax]

Finally, IvySweep rA, refering to the charts is the best combo overall in term of dps. 28sta, no need to guard cancel, as long as a full Amarant kick .
Whereas BBlows has a huge consumption of stam, is longer to proceed than AKick and need to be guardcanceled . Adv is its stun chances .

Oh and.
I imagine making the PPS char for sword Fiona took you a lot of time, but I hope you'll make the same for hammer Fiona.

[Baku]

Oh and.
I imagine making the PPS char for sword Fiona took you a lot of time, but I hope you'll make the same for hammer Fiona.
I would love to, but atm I don't feel like using 240 AP to get Stigma. But I might just use 30 for butterfly and not include charged Stigmas in the chart until later.

[TixTax]

That sounds fair to me :)

[heretic304]

Finally, IvySweep rA, refering to the charts is the best combo overall in term of dps. 28sta, no need to guard cancel, as long as a full Amarant kick .
Whereas BBlows has a huge consumption of stam, is longer to proceed than AKick and need to be guardcanceled . Adv is its stun chances .

Oh and.
I imagine making the PPS char for sword Fiona took you a lot of time, but I hope you'll make the same for hammer Fiona.

You'd think so, but according to Baku's notes, connecting with all 3 hits of Ivy Sweep actually slows the combo down significantly, mostly because of the 2nd hit. This means that it's actually one of the worse combos to use against a boss. In a mob of tiny enemies and whatnot, it's great because it is her only skill with a 360 AoE.

I could see if I can make a video of the hammer stuff for you. I'm unsure where exactly my character stands on the height scale though. We should get together and compare character heights sometime D: AFAIK I'm nowhere near the tallest, but somewhere near the shorter side, but not the shortest xD

[Baku]

Adding to that, after paying more attention it's like this:
Let's think like there's two types of attacks, blunt and slashes (and you could include thrust here). Blunts seem to not slow down speed at all (blossom, amaranth, r9 evy kick, etc), but when slashes (sword normal attacks, Ivy #2, Sword #1) hit it's like the slash goes slow-mo-ish while cutting through the enemy.

And if you want to make a vid with hammer combos that would be nice :3
I'll add you in-game when I get out of work and we can talk.

[heretic304]

Adding to that, after paying more attention it's like this:
Let's think like there's two types of attacks, blunt and slashes (and you could include thrust here). Blunts seem to not slow down speed at all (blossom, amaranth, r9 evy kick, etc), but when slashes (sword normal attacks, Ivy #2, Sword #1) hit it's like the slash goes slow-mo-ish while cutting through the enemy.

And if you want to make a vid with hammer combos that would be nice :3
I'll add you in-game when I get out of work and we can talk.

I think it might be more along the lines of swings and bashes. I think I noticed the hammer attacks slowing down when you hit them with the swinging hits, but I need to test that a little more xD

[Fathuran]

I don't have anything to add to the current discussion, but I am just saying this is a fantastic resource, thank you very much for presenting it. I have found it to be very helpful so far. ^^

[ramunesin]

isn't there a skill that reduces amaranth to a LLR combo?

[Baku]

isn't there a skill that reduces amaranth to a LLR combo?
That's Guard r9.

[ramunesin]

That's Guard r9.

but I guess it wouldn't be all too useful while bossing, right? Since when you can PG, you'd be counterattacking?

[Baku]

Indeed. r9 bonus would be used mostly against trash mobs.

[Adaptive]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before but where can you start the quest to obtain SP: Shield Bash? I didn't realize I could already get it at 36 and am now 38. I haven't seen any new quest bubbles pop up. Any help would be appreciated!

[Cucurbita]

Its not in the game yet.

[Vindication]

Nice,this will be helpful on the Fiona I just started :D,great work.

[heretic304]

I was playing around with Sprint Smash cancel on bosses, and I kinda discovered an interesting way to use it =P I noticed that if you use Sprint Smash Block, your block is up as soon as the Smash hits. This led me to try out an aggressive style of countering =o If you sprint smash a boss as he's attacking, you can set yourself up for a counterattack, allowing you to stack an extra bit of damage and knockdown onto it. I've tried doing it, but my timing isn't that great with it yet, but when it does happen, the results are pretty nice =P

This seems to work out nicely when you're in a party and the boss is going after a party member. It's faster than running up to the boss and tapping block, so I was wondering if anyone else has tried doing this before =O

[Cucurbita]

My sprint smash now does half the damage of a normal attack.
I use it only for breaking objects or a quick hit and run now ._.

[Gotejjeken]

I've stepped in front of a boss that was attacking a party member numerous times, but never ran headlong into one. I can sort of see what you are getting at if the boss has a long windup, but if not, it's definitely safer to just tap guard and combo from there (unless you mean sprint smash from the side, then spin around front and block).

[Science]

I was playing around with Sprint Smash cancel on bosses, and I kinda discovered an interesting way to use it =P I noticed that if you use Sprint Smash Block, your block is up as soon as the Smash hits. This led me to try out an aggressive style of countering =o If you sprint smash a boss as he's attacking, you can set yourself up for a counterattack, allowing you to stack an extra bit of damage and knockdown onto it. I've tried doing it, but my timing isn't that great with it yet, but when it does happen, the results are pretty nice =P

This seems to work out nicely when you're in a party and the boss is going after a party member. It's faster than running up to the boss and tapping block, so I was wondering if anyone else has tried doing this before =O

A lot of times the stam cost ends up being too much for me. If I could I'd spam sprint smash a good 3 times before a boss hit me for counter.

[heretic304]

It definitely is a bit of a gamble, but a critical sprint smash can drop that extra bit of knockdown needed to down a boss, which is why I'm wondering if anyone has tried it. Obviously, there poses dangers in using it, since you're pretty much running head first into an attack, but if you can time it well, it can sometimes add that extra oomph to your counter.

[Renges65]

I use it periodically when I'm trying to get the bosses attention (i.e. get closer), if I want to attack the boss but he's about to attack me, if he's running too fast for me to get a full combo off on him, if I'm trying to hit a bosses break point, or if he's about to hit a party member. However I try to keep my stamina above 60 at least while deciding if I should use it.

[Adaptive]

I know you are not as familiar with hammers as you are with swords but do you know if an Amaranth Kick is executed as fast as a Butterfly Swing #1?

I've tried timing it and they seem to be the same but I cannot for the life of my pull off two full Amaranth Kicks on a downed Vampire boss even though I can easily do two Butterfly Swings. For the Butterfly Swings I even allow all normal hits to land whereas for the kicks I try my best to avoid the normal attacks and go for the smash.

[Andy-Buddy]

I know you are not as familiar with hammers as you are with swords but do you know if an Amaranth Kick is executed as fast as a Butterfly Swing #1?

I've tried timing it and they seem to be the same but I cannot for the life of my pull off two full Amaranth Kicks on a downed Vampire boss even though I can easily do two Butterfly Swings. For the Butterfly Swings I even allow all normal hits to land whereas for the kicks I try my best to avoid the normal attacks and go for the smash.

I believe they're timed similarly, but remember, Amaranth requires sword slashes, and hitting monsters with those slashes causes that pause for effect. Those pauses can add up.

[heretic304]

I've noticed which sword and hammer hits add the most delay. It seems that both the overhead sword and overhead hammer attacks cause the extra delay to your attack for each target you hit. As a result, if you want to get both amaranth kicks off, you must NOT hit with the overhead sword during either combo, and you're only allowed maybe 1 or 2 non-overhead normal hits, since those will still add a tiny bit of delay. With Butterfly Swing, there's less to worry about because the first 3 hits don't add much in the way of extra animation time.

[diehard]

what set should I get on fiona after blood prince? spiderlord/slayer?

[Baku]

If you can get the mats then the Spider Lord
If you want to just skip that to save some cash, get the Light Melka (quest reward, not hard) and a couple levels later the Laghodessa Set, which is the best set you can get until Shining.

[diehard]

thanks~

[TA]

I just thought I should mention Fionas can use shield charge in a similar fashion to quickly open doors, like I included in my Scythe guide for blink.

[LuminousArk]

In Red Tyrant, I use sprint smash whenever I know I won't get a good blossom blow/amaranth kick. Eventually I'll get SP: Slashing High, and start spamming Sprint Smash Heavy Cancel. I can usually get 15 to connect and it usually will go down after a certain amount, even if he just stood up. Only good if he stays in the spot.

My tyrant runs that I host usually are done at 56:00 and faster with a really good guild/regular party.

[MaSTaBaiTz]

should i max heavy armor or will plate armor take over eventually?

[Andy-Buddy]

should i max heavy armor or will plate armor take over eventually?

Plate Sets do have pieces of Heavy Armor, so both will be used.

[Fir]

If you can get the mats then the Spider Lord
If you want to just skip that to save some cash, get the Light Melka (quest reward, not hard) and a couple levels later the Laghodessa Set, which is the best set you can get until Shining.

He might as well get the Spider Lord Set since Laghodessa is made from it.

[Laosduude]

I heard so many people saying hammers become meh in episodes 6 or 7, I want more info on this because I like hammers and I don't wanna feel like having to switch forcefully lol

[diehard]

simply put if you are bad with hammers now you will be worse when episode 6 and 7 come out. If your a decent player it should be no problem at all.

[Teaberry]

Plate Sets do have pieces of Heavy Armor, so both will be used.And unless VindictusDB is horribly wrong on a lot of things, some Plate actually has Heavy Proficiency requirements.

[Solblaze]

Great guide....now if i could just figure out that sprint smash... >.<

[Spartaaaaa]

Great guide....now if i could just figure out that sprint smash... >.<

Sprint smash involves a combination of sprinting and smashing. Don't really see where the confusion comes from...

[heretic304]

Great guide....now if i could just figure out that sprint smash... >.<

all you really need to do is hold down the Sprint button, start moving in a direction, and press smash. It really helps if you actually have the Run button bound to a key. I noticed that the Keyboard mode doesn't have it bound, which is really weird to me.

[rememberu]

you make register to view it~ :D but it turns this is a good forum to live with~ :3

[notmuchstuff]

Standing Endurance r9 says the skill costs 0 stamina to roll, but r8 says the skill costs 1 stamina to roll after being knocked down. Any ideas of on this? Is it a translation error? intentional? or what?

[Andy-Buddy]

Standing Endurance r9 says the skill costs 0 stamina to roll, but r8 says the skill costs 1 stamina to roll after being knocked down. Any ideas of on this? Is it a translation error? intentional? or what?

Translational Error. I know for sure that Standing Endurance rank 9 does not cost 0 Stamina.

Most likely Costs that much less.

[Gotejjeken]

I'd like more info on Hammers if possible, I've been dismissing them until now due to 'stigma and die' Fiona's but it turns out they are quite powerful and useful if used right. Also, isn't the Nightmare set a lot better than Lago for Fiona? Fiona's need WIL not STR.

[Andy-Buddy]

I'd like more info on Hammers if possible, I've been dismissing them until now due to 'stigma and die' Fiona's but it turns out they are quite powerful and useful if used right. Also, isn't the Nightmare set a lot better than Lago for Fiona? Fiona's need WIL not STR.

Will has a very low critical addition rate.

I say STR still has more importance.

And what do you need to know?

[Cucurbita]

Will has a very low critical addition rate.

I say STR still has more importance.

And what do you need to know?

Will also adds to life flare and standing endurance though. Pretty useful imo.
Of course not as useful as str, but I like to have my insurances planned out before I focus on damage, so I maxed all my support skills first. Now just left mostly to equipment and stat masteries. I haven't touched any of the smashes but I maxed smash mastery, combat mastery, and critical hit.

[xJac]

We can't say for sure which is better if we don't know the base critical chance and critical damage.

Does anyone have any idea for the base critical chance and damage? Is it purely from the skill: Critical Hit, or is it possible we have a base upon creation? If so, what's the approx. chances and multiplier.

[Andy-Buddy]

We can't say for sure which is better if we don't know the base critical chance and critical damage.

Does anyone have any idea for the base critical chance and damage? Is it purely from the skill: Critical Hit, or is it possible we have a base upon creation? If so, what's the approx. chances and multiplier.

Base upon creation, there is none. Its all base from will and Skill.

100 Will adds 1.6% to your Critical chance.
Also, the damage formula is:
Damage * [1+ (Critical Skill %) + Will * 0.03/200]

Taken from the here. (http://mabination.com/threads/12480-damage-formulas-percentiles.html)

So all we know is Critical Hit + Will Bonus = Critical Hit Chance.

[Gotejjeken]

In regards to the Hammer query, I just really want to know how good Fiona's use them. So far I was mostly able to get the 2-hit off with a decent recovery time, however the three hit I've only been using for mobs and the four hit if the boss is stunned...is this correct (where 'hit' is a left click)? Also I've not gotten the book for stigma yet as I am primarily a sword Fiona, however I value flexibility so I'll most likely pick that up ASAP.

As for the WIL vs. STR discussion, I currently have even in both (611 STR and WIL I believe), and have been getting critical hits quite often with the hammer (I'm not sure if that's a hammer feature or related to my WIL though). I'm going for more of a balance here, as I thought that would give a 'best of both worlds' situation. If this is true, Nightmare may not be as useless as people think.

[Cucurbita]

In regards to the Hammer query, I just really want to know how good Fiona's use them. So far I was mostly able to get the 2-hit off with a decent recovery time, however the three hit I've only been using for mobs and the four hit if the boss is stunned...is this correct (where 'hit' is a left click)? Also I've not gotten the book for stigma yet as I am primarily a sword Fiona, however I value flexibility so I'll most likely pick that up ASAP.

For common mobs, butterfly swing RAPES EVERYTHING.

Against bosses who are active, you honestly just want to stick with the following.

1. Sprint Smash cancel.
2. Bait and counter.
3. 1 hit smash
4. If you know your boss pattern and can get into position, 2 hit smash

Don't force a butterfly or stigma unless you're in a party. Also, you MAY force it if you think you can time it well enough to go through superarmor, and you don't really care for the damage you take (small fry bosses). Many bosses are stunned long enough for a full stigma charge, while some get up before you can even get to stigma.

But for those that get up before you get to stigma, those usually have low stun resist anyways so stigma usually puts them right back down.

[blahblahblahx]

It seems most of hammer Fionas attacks can be canceled just by moving or starting another combo, no heavy stander necessary. She still has to HS cancel out of sprint smash, though.

[PBnJamz]

About the height difference.. think there will be some cash reset item to reset height?

Being a hammer fiona, it should matter 2x more?

[Baku]

Doubt it. But to be honest, I wouldn't worry about it too much, just have fun.
There's a member that's going to do some testing with hammers to check if it's 4% too. But he's been busy or something.

It isn't hard to do though, if anyone feels like getting the combo speed, but not sure how to I can tell you how to do it. Would be good to have someone with shortest Fiona and another with tallest.

[xJac]

You need to get out more.

http://www.vindictushq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2625

[Andy-Buddy]

You need to get out more.

http://www.vindictushq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2625

Posted 5 days ago on a forum which updates rather slowly.

Eh, recent enough.

Oh, it's not even released yet at all, either.

[Andy-Buddy]

/Bump

SHIELD RUSH, YEAH!

[Gotejjeken]

They seemed to have nerfed counter attack. I'm finding it much less useful against bosses now. I'm not sure the reason for this, solos are just as easy/hard as before, however they now take much longer. It is especially annoying considering the first few bosses of Boat 5 are heavily counter-able, however it takes five or six of them to bring them down.

[Andy-Buddy]

They seemed to have nerfed counter attack. I'm finding it much less useful against bosses now. I'm not sure the reason for this, solos are just as easy/hard as before, however they now take much longer. It is especially annoying considering the first few bosses of Boat 5 are heavily counter-able, however it takes five or six of them to bring them down.

I would not say it's nerfed; it's closer to the fact that bosses have much more stun resistance, (than say Sturdy Emuloch or Blood Prince.)

[heretic304]

They ninja-nerfed shields in general though =( the durability patch makes you unable to counter as many times as you could in the past before your shield breaks D:

[foreignreign]

I have noticed my shield breaking faster, wasn't sure if that was just me. Finally gives me a reason to rank Guard/Heavy Stander for the lessened durability loss, though.

But I haven't noticed bosses being necessarily harder to down. Maybe it's just for the non-trash bosses, because ones like Reaper still only take 2-3 which is what they'd usually take (although mine is r6 now so that could be it). And it takes me 3-4 counters to down that spin2win Hilder Forest boss, which isn't really all that bad.

[Dukhan]

I'm curious about potions, namely Stamina and Attack Boost. Anyone ever bother with those? I've tried them, but in the heat of battle and the fact that everyone sprints from one mob to the next, I rarely find time (or remember) to use them.

My Fiona is lvl 21, so other than HP potions, campfire kits and Phoenix Feathers, I got nothing else to use in that remaining slot.

[Baku]

I'm curious about potions, namely Stamina and Attack Boost. Anyone ever bother with those? I've tried them, but in the heat of battle and the fact that everyone sprints from one mob to the next, I rarely find time (or remember) to use them.

My Fiona is lvl 21, so other than HP potions, campfire kits and Phoenix Feathers, I got nothing else to use in that remaining slot.
I take two sets of potions, on one slot greater and on the other slot a regular pot. So depending on situation I drink either one.
I don't bother with Attack Pot.

[Dukhan]

What do you mean by "greater"? I assume you're talking about HP pots?

[Baku]

haha, yes of course.
Greater or whatever they are called owo -HP pots.

[foreignreign]

Stamina pots are really only useful for when you're soloing and using a large shield, since that means a lot of HSing. Although small shield HS consumes twice as much as a large shield's, since you get knocked away with a small shield, usually that gives you enough time to run away and regen stamina if you're fighting a boss that doesn't have fast smash combos. On the other hand, since you don't get knocked back with a large shield, that means you're usually right up against the boss' face, so you don't have much time to regen stamina unless you retreat.

And I haven't bothered with attack boost potions in forever. 300 isn't much of a noticeable difference.

Although carrying either won't really hurt. My Fiona carriers around Fine HP pots, HP pots, stamina pots, phoenix feather and campfire all the time, unless I'm in a Raid/Hero party, in which case I bring party feathers instead of stamina.

[Dukhan]

Stamina pots are really only useful for when you're soloing and using a large shield, since that means a lot of HSing.
Ah, ok. Gotta ways to go before large shield, but that's good info to keep in mind.


My Fiona carriers around Fine HP pots, HP pots, stamina pots, phoenix feather and campfire all the time, unless I'm in a Raid/Hero party, in which case I bring party feathers instead of stamina.
Sounds good. I never thought about using both types of HP pots, one stack of Fine HP is usually enough, but it makes sense as the missions get harder.

[foreignreign]

I just bring both types of potions because Life Ergs are 2k a pop now (which is like, ~1200 gold per Fine HP potion), so when I'm not in a boss battle and I need to heal, I just use regular ones to save on money.

Usually that's it, anyway. Sometimes I have a bad day and I'm in an Irukul party and I get curb stomped so I end up using a full stack of potions and then some.

[Fir]

They ninja-nerfed shields in general though =( the durability patch makes you unable to counter as many times as you could in the past before your shield breaks D:

Oh so that's why my shield breaks so fast now. I was wondering why I end breaking my shield so quickly.

[Gotejjeken]

Got a question for other Hammer users. Have you found the first charge of your stigma smash to be less useful than if you had not charged at all? I have been soloing Hidden a lot lately, and it allows for a safe charge when he is down, however it seems to be doing equal or less damage than if I had not charged at all.

[Baku]

http://mabination.com/showthread.php?t=12480
Charging it once has a slight higher percentile, So it should do higher damage.

[Masterdo]

Got a question for other Hammer users. Have you found the first charge of your stigma smash to be less useful than if you had not charged at all? I have been soloing Hidden a lot lately, and it allows for a safe charge when he is down, however it seems to be doing equal or less damage than if I had not charged at all.

Well, with 60 Balance, every hit does damage between 60% and 100% of your maximum. So it's possible you keep getting unlucky with your charged Stigma and lucky with your uncharged.

[Andy-Buddy]

Well, with 60 Balance, every hit does damage between 60% and 100% of your maximum. So it's possible you keep getting unlucky with your charged Stigma and lucky with your uncharged.

Assuming the system is like Mabinogi's then a weapon with 60% balance would have an average damage of ((Max - Min) *(Balance)) + Min.

Say, 0-100 damage. You would average 60 damage, but you could hit 0 or 100, but at very low rates.

[Micho]

I'm using this guide for my lovely noob Fiona which I shall focus after my Evie! But can you tell me which skills to get first, I'm really dumb and need baby guidance like that. Thanks~

[Baku]

Shield related skills are top priority. With Counter Attack and shield mastery being above guard and heavy stander, but heavy stander to something like 90%~95% damage blocked is good enough for a good while, and comes in handy to have early on, I didn't rank heavy stander to 100% damage reduction for a while, gave priority to counter, shield mastery and smash mastery above that. Since 95% damage reduction is more than enough until big ass raid bosses.

[xJac]

Assuming the system is like Mabinogi's then a weapon with 60% balance would have an average damage of ((Max - Min) *(Balance)) + Min.

Say, 0-100 damage. You would average 60 damage, but you could hit 0 or 100, but at very low rates.

Hmm, I think otherwise. Since there's only one value, ATT (well, defense is another), it's just a range between 60%~100% damage.

[kevinxiaowis]

Hi, I'm starting a Fiona guide for VindictusHQ that's gonna heavily reference your guide (as I personally learned from your guide). I'll also be covering more advanced techniques such as dodging with sprint smash, hammer use, heavy stander recovery cancelling (cancelling the sliding animation), muscle memory exercises and so on.

At this point I've finished summarizing your guide (sorry I didn't see the bottom until I reached it >.< ), so here's me letting you know (^.^)b

[Baku]

I appreciate you letting me know. I checked your thread over HQ, and it looks good, looking forward to seeing it when you put up some more info.
Since I don't play the game anymore (and even if I wanted to play or just update the guide with the help of friends and info gathering, time is short for me now, college and stuff and being productive and shiat,woot) it's good to see people adding some more info with all the experience Fiona players must have gathered in the time since I first started this guide.

[revdb]

Very nice guide. Also, just some extra info on hammers. As well as smash mastery, hammer fionas should also rank combat, willpower mastery plus critical hit since hammer normal attacks can crit and even hit for good damage on bosses.

[wenbodou]

Could you a note be added (assuming I'm right) that normal attacks skim off your heavy stander while smash attacks knock you back? Maybe it's common knowledge but I didn't know when I first started playing my Fiona and wondered how you could tell other than experience which attacks were normal and which were smash
Assuming I'm not just making stuff up / missing it in the guide <_<

[unknown]

thanks for the awesome guide :thumb:
guess Im gonna stick to ur guide with my Fiona

[Baku]

Could you a note be added (assuming I'm right) that normal attacks skim off your heavy stander while smash attacks knock you back? Maybe it's common knowledge but I didn't know when I first started playing my Fiona and wondered how you could tell other than experience which attacks were normal and which were smash
Assuming I'm not just making stuff up / missing it in the guide <_<

I guess I could add that, I just assumed it's pretty obvious thing, and that you find out about that as soon as you get the skill, I mean, why wouldn't you experiment a bit with a skill you just got D:

___

Also, since I'm here already, I haven't played Vindi in months, is there anything out-dated here, I mean, I know there could be more added info regarding skills and whatever else that has been added in the game, but I mean if something changed, of the things I mention in this guide.

[wenbodou]

Haha, I guess it is pretty obvious ._. I guess I was just slow to the party (didn't actually think about it until I was level 30 or something <_<)

[saitun]

I guess I could add that, I just assumed it's pretty obvious thing, and that you find out about that as soon as you get the skill, I mean, why wouldn't you experiment a bit with a skill you just got D:

___

Also, since I'm here already, I haven't played Vindi in months, is there anything out-dated here, I mean, I know there could be more added info regarding skills and whatever else that has been added in the game, but I mean if something changed, of the things I mention in this guide.


There's a lot in there that's VERY outdated. You need R9 Longsword Mastery for Fiona's best swords, Shining Will is a level 56 set, not level 50... Oh, and heavy stander counter is coming out soon along with her charge attacks. Just to name a few problems.

[Andy-Buddy]

There's a lot in there that's VERY outdated. You need R9 Longsword Mastery for Fiona's best swords, Shining Will is a level 56 set, not level 50... Oh, and heavy stander counter is coming out soon along with her charge attacks. Just to name a few problems.

Still not really outdated. Every skill currently released is addressed, and handled well. If someone needed help figuring how to level Longsword Mastery for Fiona's best swords and didn't know what to rank it to at level 50+, I'd be pretty disturbed.

[unknown]

Still not really outdated. Every skill currently released is addressed, and handled well.

Well, not anymore ;)
The episode 7 update brought a few changes and new skills.

Fiona

Rose Thorns: A close attack that deals more damage when charged. Can only be used while not in motion.

Honeybee Sting: A short range attack that deals more damage when charged. Can only be used while not in motion.

Heavy Stander Counter: After performing successful Heavy Stander block, Fiona gets one additional attack while being pushed back. Will not work if shield is destroyed.

Downward Counter: After successfully using Standing Endurance or Incapacitation Resistance, Fiona can counterattack while being pushed back. Like Heavy Stander Counter, will not work if shield is destroyed.

[Baku]

There's a lot in there that's VERY outdated. You need R9 Longsword Mastery for Fiona's best swords, Shining Will is a level 56 set, not level 50... Oh, and heavy stander counter is coming out soon along with her charge attacks. Just to name a few problems.
That doesn't seem like a "lot" or "very" outdated @,@ , but thanks. I am also aware of the new skills, and did say that I didn't mean about new things, as I am aware of all of those.
If I get some free time at home I'll make a small update with the skills and whatever.

[TLCBonaparte]

I got a question. Between hammer and sword, what's the difference? And does large shield makes you couner attack easier against giant boss?

[Micho]

I got a question. Between hammer and sword, what's the difference? And does large shield makes you couner attack easier against giant boss?

Hammers are generally slower and more powerful. Heavy shields are used when you're faced with a boss that keeps using smashes, so when using a large shield you won't get knocked back when you use heavy strander.

[TLCBonaparte]

Hammers are generally slower and more powerful. Heavy shields are used when you're faced with a boss that keeps using smashes, so when using a large shield you won't get knocked back when you use heavy strander.

On paper it looks like sword is better (I think you can't use large shield with hammer?)

But hammers are so cool >.<

[Micho]

You can use large shield with hammers. ._____.

You can't do certain things with hammer though. But I prefer hammers over swords any day.

[Skye]

Hammers have more damage than a sword.
I outdamaged a level 5x sword Fiona once as a level 38 hammer Fiona.

[TLCBonaparte]

Hammers have more damage than a sword.
I outdamaged a level 5x sword Fiona once as a level 38 hammer Fiona.

Does hammer damage factor into Counter Attack damage?

[Skye]

Does hammer damage factor into Counter Attack damage?

I don't think so.
Counterattack is just the shield, isn't it?
obviously not a pro Fiona

[Micho]

Counterattack doesn't have to do with anything hammer or sword. If you use either you can still use counterattack.

The fact is that when you're using hammer is that you can't block quickly, since hammer is slow your block will be delayed, that's the only problem with hammer.

[whocares8128]

I don't think so.
Counterattack is just the shield, isn't it?
obviously not a pro Fiona

I believe it does actually.

@TLCBonaparte
By the way, you cannot use Counterattack with a large shield. This is the sole reason I hate using a large shield. However, large shields trade that skill for the ability to remain in place when smashed in Heavy Stander. It's particularly useful for bosses than have combo smashes, where you wouldn't have time to use Heavy Stander again before getting hit (or where it would be difficult and getting hit means certain death).

[Natural Harmonia Gropius]

I believe it does actually.

@TLCBonaparte
By the way, you cannot use Counterattack with a large shield. This is the sole reason I hate using a large shield. However, large shields trade that skill for the ability to remain in place when smashed in Heavy Stander. It's particularly useful for bosses than have combo smashes, where you wouldn't have time to use Heavy Stander again before getting hit (or where it would be difficult and getting hit means certain death).

I thought they added in a counterattack skill for large shields?

[Invertex]

I thought they added in a counterattack skill for large shields?

Nope. Small Shield has access to 4 types of counters, Large has none. I'm sure you got confused by Downwards Counter and HS Counter, which are both Small Shield exclusives.

[Natural Harmonia Gropius]

Nope. Small Shield has access to 4 types of counters, Large has none. I'm sure you got confused by Downwards Counter and HS Counter, which are both Small Shield exclusives.

I was thinking of HS counter.

[TLCBonaparte]

I thought they added in a counterattack skill for large shields?

they added a large shield charge I believe, not counter though.

[Invertex]

they added a large shield charge I believe, not counter though.

No such thing exists. There are no Large Shield specific skills besides Large Shield Mastery.
The main thing you get from Large Shields are...

+Less stamina use from HS
+No knockback from using HS
+More natural defence
-No Counters

Also of note, I'm not sure how stun and damage correlate. But the main thing that would make hammer counters "stronger" then sword ones is the fact that hammers naturally have a higher attack stat, meaning that you deal more damage on a counter hit (it still counts as a smash, so it's a percentile of your attack). Stun is the main use of Small Shields however, and the point where that stun isn't enough to make the safety of a Large Shield worth it is when you switch to a Large one.

[TLCBonaparte]

No such thing exists. There are no Large Shield specific skills besides Large Shield Mastery.
The main thing you get from Large Shields are...

+Less stamina use from HS
+No knockback from using HS
+More natural defence
-No Counters

Also of note, I'm not sure how stun and damage correlate. But the main thing that would make hammer counters "stronger" then sword ones is the fact that hammers naturally have a higher attack stat, meaning that you deal more damage on a counter hit (it still counts as a smash, so it's a percentile of your attack). Stun is the main use of Small Shields however, and the point where that stun isn't enough to make the safety of a Large Shield worth it is when you switch to a Large one.

I was thinking heavy stander counter. sigh, I love counter, too bad soon or later I will have to switch to large shield :(

[Invertex]

I was thinking heavy stander counter. sigh, I love counter, too bad soon or later I will have to switch to large shield :(

Small Shield works fine on most non raid bosses, and you'll still get heavy use out of them when doing your dailies. It doesn't hurt to keep one around (also note Colru is workable (and fun!) with a Small Shield, and Klaus is an easy solo with one).

[Andy-Buddy]

And you're forgetting Shakarr. He's most definitely the most fun Small-Shield boss out there.

[Invertex]

And you're forgetting Shakarr. He's most definitely the most fun Small-Shield boss out there.

I didn't forget him, I just forgot to mention him. XD
It's hard to classify Shakarr and Succubus as I don't know if I should call them raids, solos, or what. But both of those are easily manageable with a Small Shield. And don't forget that half the raids (Ingkells, Glas, Titan) all end up in just chain stunning the boss and spamming them to death in trans, so you barely ever use your shield in those cases.

[Skye]

So basically...
Small shields=anything but raids (with the exception of Colru, Shakarr, maybe others?)
Large shields=raids

I've been wanting to ask for a while, because I'm to the point where I can now use both.

[grandpajelly]

So basically...
Small shields=anything but raids (with the exception of Colru, Shakarr, maybe others?)
Large shields=raids
I've been wanting to ask for a while, because I'm to the point where I can now use both.
Not exactly. There's plenty of raids where small shield is efficient in:Hidden, Blood Lord,Klaus, Thor, Ingkells, Lionotus.At the same time some normal battles are best done with a large shield: Rescue, Vehemence, Taonu etc.
Come to think of it, that's a lot of raids that can be done with a small shield, but I prefer large for most of them.

[Invertex]

Not exactly. There's plenty of raids where small shield is efficient in:Hidden, Blood Lord,Klaus, Thor, Ingkells, Lionotus.At the same time some normal battles are best done with a large shield: Rescue, Vehemence, Taonu etc.
Come to think of it, that's a lot of raids that can be done with a small shield, but I prefer large for most of them.

I have to disagree with Thor and Lionotus on that list.

The main thing about Thor is that he only hits once when he's walking fowards while electrified. You can easily fit in a pretty strong smash if you HS and immediately start swinging, meanwhile you just lose stamina and such with a small shield. His only move that can be countered is him stepping on you while turning around, which isn't often enough to warrant using a small shield.

Lionotus, the damage dealt outside of dropping him off the cliff is very minor. In most parties, a Fiona's role (sadly) is to act as living bait. You can't effectively lure Lionotus to the edge if you're getting shoved off it every 5 seconds due to HS knockback. Stun and damage mean very little outside of dropping him off the edge, and I have never seen Lionotus get stunned outside of falling.

Still, your point is correct in that the "Raids = Large Shield, Non-Raids = Small Shield" is not fully accurate. It's a good general guideline, but I feel it's primarily up to the player to make the decision on which shield they feel is the better one for the mission.

[whocares8128]

Lionotus can be knocked down. I've only seen it three times now though, and each time was basically a full-party-transforming beatdown.

[grandpajelly]

For Lionotus I was thinking more of a dps role. If there's already a bait fiona in the party or everyone has enough attack that he can be beat without throwing him off, but those times are very rare.

I need more defense Q_Q 7.2k with enchanted Jirkal and 4 sentinels. ~7.5k with maxed def mastery. 7.8k with one Passion scroll. What am I missing?

[Invertex]

For Lionotus I was thinking more of a dps role. If there's already a bait fiona in the party or everyone has enough attack that he can be beat without throwing him off, but those times are very rare.

I need more defense Q_Q 7.2k with enchanted Jirkal and 4 sentinels. ~7.5k with maxed def mastery. 7.8k with one Passion scroll. What am I missing?

Even with that much attack, it's more efficient to throw him off the edge.

Also you're missing a lot of Warlords and Healthy/Passion on your accessories. Warlord is a prefix for ~130 Def, Healthy is a suffix for ~130 def, Passion is also a suffix for 200. You probably already know that.
If you have a full set of enchanted accessories (2 rings, earring, emblem, belt. 5 total), you'll get 650 Def from Healthy/Warlord, and 1000 from Passion. This means a full set of Warlord Passion accessories lands you at about 9.2k def, which is a quite a bit.
(Note I'm not sure if the prefix I'm thinking of is called Warlord, but I think it is)

Switching to a Grand Cross also could boost you by about 200 or so def. Also tacking on Tutelary (prefix for plate) gives you an extra 100 def on each piece of armor. Five Tutelaries and a Grand Cross would probably boost you to about 8.5k.

Doing both of the above puts you at around 9.9k def, at which point making a few pieces of armor into +10 (if they aren't already) should probably place you at 10k.

[grandpajelly]

I don't have enough money for Warlod's, Passions, and Tutelaries. T_T

[Gotejjeken]

7.2k is more than fine, learn to use your shield if you are dying a lot. For instance, I was constantly pulling first in Glas a month or two ago with 5.4k DEF, as he is super easy to block. DEF is not a necessity for Fiona, more of a luxury. With 8.2k I have to practically stand there to die, and in transformation I can be in Colru/Lios face for quite a long time without even getting a scratch.

Also, on the note of Lio...I'd say there really is no reason to bring a large there. You can still lure fine with a small, with the extra benefit of never being pushed off the cliff because of HSC. Also, you can counter him rather easily, which is more fun than simply LR...LR...LR in between all of his attacks.