is this case of merchanting wrong??

[bebepanales]

ok... i sold my friend something for particularly cheap. it was a desirable nice color~ he said he wanted it so i sold it to him at a lower price than he offered. next thing i know he has it up for sale for many times the price i sold to him for. well... i was just offended... he said he was a businessman. but still~ i could have sold it to someone else for a higher price. :c what are your opinions of this~ i wonder if other people would be offended too. i think i will stop selling anything to my friends... or if i do i shall have to resort to charging full price. ㅠ.ㅠ
:doom:

[Cannibal]

Well, I'd understand the way you feel if it's a friend, but I do this all the time.

[Arsik]

To me, all merchanting is bad, period, since it's too consumed by greed, as evident in your friend's actions. But if you're a merchant, you really can't complain about what people do with things they bought from you, since you did agree to the price already.

[Chiri]

I don't expect people to sell gifts. But this is probably something you could have talked about before deciding to be nice.

[bebepanales]

well he said he "wanted it" like... he said he wanted the whole set. and he even commented on the color and dyeing some parts. :c i so disappointed. heheh. i only discounted because i thought hed want to use it for himself.

[Lonesky]

I feel somewhat guilty whenever I merchant, and I would never buy an item from a friend just to merchant it :O

[Frawmus]

I don't really merchant.. I tend to give away things free ;(

[Chiri]

You can always just tell him: I'm disappointed in you, I thought you were going to use it.

[bebepanales]

well i did... and his response was "im a businessman" and that no one will buy that for that expensive anyhow. but i wonder why he has it up for sale in the first place.

[Intex]

When your friend gives you something at a lower price just for you, you don't turn around and make money off of it.

That's making money by taking advantage of someones kindness, I'd probably delete him off my buddy list if I were you.

I always make sure my friends are using the item I sell them cheap, I'm not selling an Imp ES to a friend for 100k just to see them sell it for double.

[Laconicus]

When people sell things for cheap in parties and people buy said things and sell them for higher in their houses, I don't consider that to be bad. The people selling things in parties don't have houses to sell things uber overpriced with, so everyone wins.

...On the other hand, in cases like this, merching is a bad thing. That's a very not-friend-like thing to do. I'd be mad at the person D:

[Intex]

I can't even consider this merchanting, this is taking advantage of someone :|

[bebepanales]

To me, all merchanting is bad, period, since it's too consumed by greed, as evident in your friend's actions. But if you're a merchant, you really can't complain about what people do with things they bought from you, since you did agree to the price already.

im not really a "merchant" i don't go around buying stuff at a low price to sell them high. ok, once i bought a dye around 90k and it turned out i didnt need it so i sold it for 100k. when i sold my friend the item, i wasn't being a businessman/merchant, i was being a friend. that is why i was upset.

and in a friendly/joking way i told him i won't be selling him any more stuff, i mean because he has done this with other things i sold him cheap before, just a little. and now he is upset because i said that. :c i dont get why he is upset.... ㅠ.ㅠ i wonder what i can do.

[Swordslayer]

When your friend gives you something at a lower price just for you, you don't turn around and make money off of it.

That's making money by taking advantage of someones kindness, I'd probably delete him off my buddy list if I were you.

I always make sure my friends are using the item I sell them cheap, I'm not selling an Imp ES to a friend for 100k just to see them sell it for double.

^agreed.

That's just being a complete jackasss. If you guys are good friends then just suk it up this time I guess.... but those kind of ppl are either A) oblivious or B) just playing the game to play. Which don't get me wrong, that's wat ur suppose to do... but it's annoying how some ppl play as if all the other players were just computers =/

/ends transmission from the heart =[

[Chiri]

You don't owe him cheap items. I had a friend who was a HW supplier to someone, and when she mentioned raising her price from 10k to 12k a stack, due to market changes, they went crazy on her--- as if she owed it to them to sell them cheap [perhaps because they were reselling for high].

[Juno]

You don't sell gifts, regardless of the profit opportunity. I agree that's not a good case of merchanting.

[Emile]

Merchanting is the only way to make honest and yet abundant gold. I agree that it was definitely wrong of him to have sold something from a friend which he lied or misled you to get, but oh well. You win some you lose some.

Merchanting was never liked by anyone- not in Runescape, Maplestory, Mabinogi, WoW, or ANY online game. People look down on them although they're generally wealthy.

[bebepanales]

it's just that... someone goes out of their way for you to do you a special favor, and you're like totally ignoring the thought. so inconsiderate. merchanting is dirty business, emile, it is not always honest. you'd be surprised at how low people will sink themveles to just to make a buck.

[Emile]

it's just that... someone goes out of their way for you to do you a special favor, and you're like totally ignoring the thought. so inconsiderate. merchanting is dirty business, emile, it is not always honest. you'd be surprised at how low people will sink themveles to just to make a buck.

Merchanting isn't dirty business itself. It's hated for two reasons.

1. Like you, you were abused and taken advantage in by someone who was doing this process. It's understandable and I would feel the same as you.

But 2 is other people, and doesn't make sense to me.

2. They just don't like the fact they're making money so easily and consider it dirty.

Real life is all merchanting. Real-estate is buying cheap houses and waiting for the price to rise to sell higher.

TL;DR: Yeah, in your situation this wasn't a friend you want to be with... obviously morally gray.

[bebepanales]

no i mean... some merchants pretend to be friends just to get super discounts. and i feel so bad for the seller... he has no clue ㅋ.ㅋ
(i know ppl... >.<)

[Emile]

no i mean... some merchants pretend to be friends just to get super discounts. and i feel so bad for the seller... he has no clue ㅋ.ㅋ
(i know ppl... >.<)

Yeah, well, it's these merchants who give merchanting a bad name.

I never buy NX or items from friends primarily due to the fact I hate taking anything from them really.

[Intex]

I just hate it when people blatantly lie in my face to try and get a discount.

I'd rather someone say "I'll buy your Valencia for 500k" instead of "Come on, Valencia's are only worth 300k, there's going to be a new SM that gives Valencias as a reward. I'm already paying you 200k extra for it."

[Chiri]

If you're feeling vengeful, you can always put up a counter party: "I sold this thing to this person for 10k g, don't buy higher."

[Yogurticecream]

You can always just tell him: I'm disappointed in you, I thought you were going to use it.
I will definitely do that or I'll auto-boycott someone who does that to me. Because it just shows that they are being greedy.

In bebe's case, trust has been breached.

I don't like being taken advantaged of. I remember the time when someone decided to befriend me and kept bugging me for a discount on my HW. After I realised the person is reselling my stuff, I deleted him off buddy list and then I moved to housing and sold HW instead. Now I've moved back to Dunbarton market and I still make a good business out of HW for exchange of many days of resting and time to do other things instead of just focusing on making the most out of housing.

I do believe in giving discounts to friends provided that I have enough time to handle the requests, otherwise I do appreciate a little more for going through the extra trouble for them. Many times I have to reject requests because they were too much to handle. I'd rather they go find someone else who's willing to sell it cheap. Also, from what I heard, it's really rare for a 1000+CP player to still be in the HW trade (but that's ok for me since I do it really fast) and I'm really thinking of moving on from it to something else that is better for me since I don't really earn much from this for all the effort that I put in.

I strongly believe that this game can be played without merchanting, where you sometimes have to suffer the consequences if you are discovered for the act. I'm not saying that you can't merchant, but if you really want to hide, don't ever let people (I'm saying about the random people you target for cheap items, don't ever do that to your friends) pick up your act. Use alternate accounts to sell if you really want to.

However, if I gave something to someone as a gift and they decided to sell it, I won't really say anything about that since it is their item already. Because it's a gift.

For myself, most gifts that I get from other people in-game, especially the high-value kind, I'll never sell them, because I don't think it's right to do so, unless they are junk that they don't want anyway. I'd rather earn my money some other way.

[Lie]

=| Merchanting is a no-man's-land.

This is just taking advantage of your consideration and kindness. Not cool at all.

[Cucurbita]

Business is where you sell your soul for money.
To be quite frank, its not a bad idea in general. Profit is important; take what you can.

But there was a bit of manipulation and "scam" in this particular scenario, and thats not cool. He valued gold more than your trust, and he picked gold. What you do next is your call.

[Joker]

something about this seems wrong.... -.-

[Kazuni]

I merchant when no special discounts or friends are involved. I might pick something cheap out of a store in dunby and sell it for more, but that's the price the seller had already set. I don't even haggle.

In this situation, though, it's just wrong.

[Justified]

But 2 is other people, and doesn't make sense to me.
2. They just don't like the fact they're making money so easily and consider it dirty.
Real life is all merchanting. Real-estate is buying cheap houses and waiting for the price to rise to sell higher.

You're absolutely right, there's nothing wrong with me buying out a bunch of tickets to the big game and then selling them for profit once the box office sells out, right? It's an honest buck. Oh wait, that's illegal. "Scalping," or merchanting tickets, is considered dirty and is illegal because the scalper is making a large profit for doing absolutely nothing.
Houses involve actual risk and upkeep. A better comparison would be buying a colored Gacha weapon, proffing it to 100, and then selling it. You invest money in the house/weapon, take care of it for a while, then after it develops you reap in the profits. You risk the house being a dud, the housing market not rising, the colored weapon falling below egoable, or enchants destroying that nice 18dur smithed Broadsword. Unlike merchanting/scalping, you don't just sit on your arse doing nothing.
In addition, ever read the label "Not for resale"?


To me, all merchanting is bad, period, since it's too consumed by greed, as evident in your friend's actions. But if you're a merchant, you really can't complain about what people do with things they bought from you, since you did agree to the price already.

This all the way.
Merchants are kind of like double scammers. They scam the good will of people offering low prices to help out their buyers, and they scam the buyers by making them pay more than they should for what they want, generally well above market value.


A living isn't "honest" if you don't contribute in anyway to the community. All merchants/ scammers/ scalpers do is take from it.
On the other hand, I honestly do dislike people making money too easily when they don't deserve it.
I do accept merchanting in forms of:
1. Person A doesn't have a proper way to sell so person B buys and sells for higher in his Shop/House.
2. Person A has a set price (not haggled) below market value. Person B buys and sells at market value.
Anything beyond that is pretty much driven by greed and taking advantage of people.

[pkMaster]

Scalping my be illegal, but people do it all the time. Why'd you think some concert tickets selling for over 1K? (Talking about real life)

Unless you know this guy personally, you'd probably want to sever all ties with him. People like that just aren't worth hanging around with.

[Cucurbita]

If its so evil, then there's evil in every corner of life.
Business is what made this world what it is, and business is what keeps it running.

Could it not be argued that greed and desire is what pushes us to take a step further into productivity and development?

Isn't it why we hire certain people to sell things for us at a higher price?

I'm not trying to say what happened to the OP was not a very jerkish thing to do, but I'm just trying to stand on the other side of the argument here.

The world runs on everyone trying to scam each other out of their money. And if you're the only one playing the nice guy, you'll be left behind. This doesn't mean you should run around and scam everyone. It means you need to keep a perceptive eye, grab good deals whenever there is one to be found, snatch every opportunity.

What you're all speaking of is equivalency, something that is only written in books for ideals.

[Justified]

There are successful businesses that practice ethical standards though. They may be rare, but Ben n Jerry's is an example.

Business in itself leads to corruption by human nature. I won't deny the fact that this leads to some healthy developments, but this also leads to child labor and borderline slavery outsourcing to third-world countries. Wal-Mart has a pretty bad reputation for this, and while I won't boycott Wal-Mart, I'm just acknowledging the fact that the bad is out there. To a limit, it can be tolerated. You can seize a good deal and snatch an opportunity without crossing the line on exploitation. Like buying an item for a cheap instead of trying to haggle it down to insanely cheap.

In-game, I don't think that it's as healthy as in the real world. There are limitless unregulated monopolies, and going bankrupt doesn't screw you over. Can't really say for certain, but I'd say that merchanting isn't really a desirable aspect of the game for anybody - except the merchanters.


Scalping my be illegal, but people do it all the time. Why'd you think some concert tickets selling for over 1K? (Talking about real life)

Murder and rape happen too. They're also illegal. What's your point?

[Cucurbita]

I for one find nothing wrong with standing in line for 2 days for a ps3.
And then selling it on ebay for 9001 dollars.

[MrShandavio]

What are you guys talking about? I've been doing this before you came up with a term for it. The entire concept of business is "buy low, sell high".

Now, I won't say I make a living off of it - mainly because I don't have enough money to get anything worth selling. However, I partake in the process of buying low and selling high every now and then. I never buy anything without haggling it down. As far as friends go, I don't think I've ever sold a gift from a friend (and I've been gifted some very expensive things), but that's all in the ethics of the person and their sales strategy... and it's not your place to judge.

I, for one, encourage this "merchanting" business. I just think it's funny that everyone is just now realizing that things like this happen. :P

[eiklnv]

There are successful businesses that practice ethical standards though. They may be rare, but Ben n Jerry's is an example.

Business in itself leads to corruption by human nature. I won't deny the fact that this leads to some healthy developments, but this also leads to child labor and borderline slavery outsourcing to third-world countries. Wal-Mart has a pretty bad reputation for this, and while I won't boycott Wal-Mart, I'm just acknowledging the fact that the bad is out there. To a limit, it can be tolerated. You can seize a good deal and snatch an opportunity without crossing the line on exploitation. Like buying an item for a cheap instead of trying to haggle it down to insanely cheap.

In-game, I don't think that it's as healthy as in the real world. There are limitless unregulated monopolies, and going bankrupt doesn't screw you over. Can't really say for certain, but I'd say that merchanting isn't really a desirable aspect of the game for anybody - except the merchanters.



Murder and rape happen too. They're also illegal. What's your point?

Not all illegal things have the same weight of seriousness. Speeding is illegal but what proportion of the population speeds? All "crimes" have different weights, don't compare everything to murder just because they are "illegal". Btw pirating software is illegal, should you get punished the same as murder for it?

[Infamy]

well i did... and his response was "im a businessman"

If he wants to be a "businessman" then he doesn't deserve your personal favors.

[Justified]

I for one find nothing wrong with standing in line for 2 days for a ps3.
And then selling it on ebay for 9001 dollars.

Obviously there are exceptions. There's actual effort and dedication involved in that scenario.

The seller (Sony) has a set price and doesn't negotiate, you're abiding by that price and therefore the trade is fair.
The buyer (who you sell to) is paying for the ability and/or luck that you had in obtaining one. Usually, this is in auction form, so they're willingly offering $9,001 and aren't being coerced into it by you.

Both acts are perfectly fair.


Not all illegal things have the same weight of seriousness. Speeding is illegal but what proportion of the population speeds? All "crimes" have different weights, don't compare everything to murder just because they are "illegal". Btw pirating software is illegal, should you get punished the same as murder for it?

Couldn't resist. :P
It was just a response to "XXX is illegal, but people do XXX all the time." I didn't see the point in that statement, so I took it in my own direction. I don't actually think they're too similar, although they do both harm people. (Scamming, rape, and murder I mean)


What are you guys talking about? I've been doing this before you came up with a term for it. The entire concept of business is "buy low, sell high".

It's probably been around since before you started playing games at all. "Merchanting" is just easier to say and understand than "buy low, sell high" every time it's talked about. And just because we talk about it now, doesn't mean people haven't realized it before - don't flatter yourself.

[MrShandavio]

It's probably been around since before you started playing games at all. "Merchanting" is just easier to say and understand than "buy low, sell high" every time it's talked about. And just because we talk about it now, doesn't mean people haven't realized it before - don't flatter yourself.

Well yeah it's been around since the beginning of time. I just think it's funny how people start throwing terms around like it's some new epidemic. :P Don't get mad, bro.

[Phunkie]

I would delete a person like that off my friend's list. That's just plain rude.

Whether you want to forgive him or not, it's up to you. But he doesn't even acknowledge your feelings in this situation.

He's just a "businessman."

What a jerk.

Oh well, I believe in karma. Watch it get him.

[Justified]

Well yeah it's been around since the beginning of time. I just think it's funny how people start throwing terms around like it's some new epidemic. :P Don't get mad, bro.

I rarely get mad on the internet, you just came off as if you invented the concept. :P

[eiklnv]

I rarely get mad on the internet, you just came off as if you invented the concept. :P

I think you are over-reacting.

My approach to merchanting:

If item is from friend -> not gonna buy to sell higher, only buy if I am gonna use it myself

If item is from stranger -> by all means buy for low and sell high >_>;

[bebepanales]

I rarely get mad on the internet, you just came off as if you invented the concept. :P

thats how it came off as to me too. :T we know it existed from the beginning; we're not stupid. don't belittle our thoughts, mrshandavio.

[Chihaya]

you call him a friend? =.=
Well, in that case, don't sell anything else to him; show him what it's like to eat his own medicine and merchant yourself

[Zyrus]

I question if this person is really your friend. They sound like a user.

[MrShandavio]

http://imgh.us/onlyyoucanbethismad.jpg

[Emile]

You're absolutely right, there's nothing wrong with me buying out a bunch of tickets to the big game and then selling them for profit once the box office sells out, right? It's an honest buck. Oh wait, that's illegal. "Scalping," or merchanting tickets, is considered dirty and is illegal because the scalper is making a large profit for doing absolutely nothing.
Houses involve actual risk and upkeep. A better comparison would be buying a colored Gacha weapon, proffing it to 100, and then selling it. You invest money in the house/weapon, take care of it for a while, then after it develops you reap in the profits. You risk the house being a dud, the housing market not rising, the colored weapon falling below egoable, or enchants destroying that nice 18dur smithed Broadsword. Unlike merchanting/scalping, you don't just sit on your arse doing nothing.
In addition, ever read the label "Not for resale"?



This all the way.
Merchants are kind of like double scammers. They scam the good will of people offering low prices to help out their buyers, and they scam the buyers by making them pay more than they should for what they want, generally well above market value.


A living isn't "honest" if you don't contribute in anyway to the community. All merchants/ scammers/ scalpers do is take from it.
On the other hand, I honestly do dislike people making money too easily when they don't deserve it.
I do accept merchanting in forms of:
1. Person A doesn't have a proper way to sell so person B buys and sells for higher in his Shop/House.
2. Person A has a set price (not haggled) below market value. Person B buys and sells at market value.
Anything beyond that is pretty much driven by greed and taking advantage of people.

Scalping in reality is illegal, but makes money regardless.
In a game, the same method of scalping is completely legal and still makes money.
Seeing how we're talking about a game, bringing up real-life scalping is useless.

Additionally, your talk about how real estate in reality is like proficiency is all good, but consider it's entirely possible to make your money by hoping the housing market goes up.
It might not happen, but if it does, it required little to no effort to gain this money.
If you want, you can fix up the house for more value, which is the same as proficiency on an item, but it's not needed.
The market can easily make it worth more just through inflation & deflation.

[Justified]

You fail to see the connections I'm making.


Scalping in reality is illegal, but makes money regardless.
In a game, the same method of scalping is completely legal and still makes money.
Seeing how we're talking about a game, bringing up real-life scalping is useless.

The reason I bring up scalping is indeed the fact that it is illegal in the real world. Things in the real world are illegal because they are bad. They are not bad because they are illegal. There are very few, if any, laws in developed countries that don't have some kind of moral backing to them (those are either tossed aside or ignored by both citizens and law enforcement) Scalping is not ignored by law enforcement and scalpers are still punished if they are caught.
The fact that it's in a game doesn't really change anything. Sure, it's not as serious seeing as how money and the economy aren't really the same and aren't life and death, but it's the same principle. I won't call a merchanter as corrupt and greedy as a scalper, but they're still doing the same act of immorality. The difference is that a game is just a game, and life actually matters.


Additionally, your talk about how real estate in reality is like proficiency is all good, but consider it's entirely possible to make your money by hoping the housing market goes up.
It might not happen, but if it does, it required little to no effort to gain this money.
If you want, you can fix up the house for more value, which is the same as proficiency on an item, but it's not needed.
The market can easily make it worth more just through inflation & deflation.

For the house, you aren't scamming the seller or the buyer when you invest in it. You're buying and selling at the defined and reasonable price of the time, it's value has merely changed. You are not getting it for a steal and selling it as a rip-off, you're just reaping the benefits of a fluctuating economy.

[MrShandavio]

I don't see anything wrong with buying something, waiting until its value rises, and then selling it it for a profit.

Who cares if you put any work into it, or invested anything in it?

[Justified]

I don't see anything wrong with buying something, waiting until its value rises, and then selling it it for a profit.

Who cares if you put any work into it, or invested anything in it?

I don't either. That's not exactly the same as what merchants more commonly do - haggle people down saying they need it and then hiking up the price above double or even triple in the same day (or shortly after) when the actual value hasn't really changed. I consider those two to be different things, the former being acceptable and the latter being rotten.

[MrShandavio]

Right. I don't see a problem with that either. It's intelligent.

Now, if you happen to haggle a "friend" down, like the OP, well, that's more a matter of ethics and is between those two people. As far as I'm concerned, neither concept is "rotten".

[Justified]

Right. I don't see a problem with that either. It's intelligent.

Now, if you happen to haggle a "friend" down, like the OP, well, that's more a matter of ethics and is between those two people. As far as I'm concerned, neither concept is "rotten".

How are the ethics between a person and his friend different than the ethics between a person and a stranger?
Both the friend and the stranger are human beings. Both deserve just as much as the other.

As for it being intelligent, that's not completely true. Businesses and businessmen are often though of as greedy, selfish, corrupt, etc because of their actions. While it's "intelligent" in respect to gaining power and wealth, it's not "intelligent" in the form of morality and ethics. For example...

Nexon. They're being intelligent, they're getting tons of NX from all of use who pay for rebirths, pets, and service. They're also being intelligent by cutting on costs by having complete crap for customer service. Sure, they're driving away a lot of potential customers, but at the end of the day there's still a lot of use shelling out $10 or more a month, and for some people more than $20 a week. And how many of us are honestly happy with Nexon's performance?

[MrShandavio]

The difference in ethics is very noticeable. Getting a good deal on an item and reselling it for profit is a lot easier to do when you get it from a stranger, at least in most cases. Either way, ethics aren't really even relevant. Anyone playing the game knows at least A LITTLE about the items and the currency. It's not like we're all natives from an island who've never seen money before and are having it stolen. You should know beforehand what the item you're selling is worth, and you should know that selling it for below market value is an invitation for that person to re-sell it. If you don't look up what it's worth before selling it, you deserved to be "merchant'd".

And I still consider it to be an intelligent trade. Anyone can grind levels and skills and have an upper hand in battle (not saying stats mean everything; that's not the argument I'm making... I only mean that battle comes easier with high-ranked skills and a high level). But not everyone has the mind and dedication to buy and sell.

It's a full-time job. Look at antique salesman or pawn shops or whatever. They take something someone might not think is worth a lot, and then either fix it up and re-sell it (an example would be an old car), or simply hold onto it and resell it when its worth more (something like collectible cards). Either way, it takes a lot of thinking, and isn't always dirty.

[Justified]

Easier to do because it's a stranger? That's not ethics. Ethics should be universally applicable regardless of relations.
If anything the fact that it's harder to do to a friend proves that what you're doing is wrong - because you feel guilt or resent for cheating somebody close to you. (Either that or you just don't want to get caught)

Saying not everybody has the mind and dedication to buy and sell doesn't really work. You say that anybody can grind levels but not everybody can merchant. I can say the opposite - anybody can merchant but not everybody can reach level 1438. The problem with both statements is that they assume everybody actually wants to merchant or be high level, when in reality many people enjoy the game without fortune or high levels.

Antique salesmen and pawn shops are iffy examples. As for the collectible card, some people feel it is immoral to take advantage of a trade when the other person doesn't know the true value of something. That's like me saying "this Dustin is a one-of-a-kind per server item, it's extremely rare and worth 10 mil!" Many people would call that a scam, the only difference is that the scammer is buying (not selling) in the case of the card.

Basically: what I'm trying to say is that trades that don't follow a categorical imperative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative) are edging on corruption. It basically states - act as if your actions were the same actions that everybody else will always choose. If you merchant, than every trade would be merchanted. In the end, trades wouldn't occur because everybody would just assume they were going to be merchanted. Why should I sell you my item? You're just going to resell it anyways.

[MrShandavio]

I really don't get where you're coming from at this point. I think you're too hung up on ethics and honesty; doing what's right. All I can say is, not everybody is equal. As far as your last point, with everyone choosing the same actions as everyone else to create an equal world - there's a reason no world is like that. Some people live by the rules and morals, others take advantage of/exploit opportunities. It's this mix that creates our real world and this game's world. Whichever you choose to live by is your own opinion, but there's a reason some people have more than others.

[Athde]

If it's a friend you should at least tell them the truth about what you're gonna do with it. If it's a stranger well. Don't ask don't tell. Not like they can get mad. Unless you do business with them regularly merchanting shouldn't be a problem. After all that's just the way the world is.

[Justified]

I really don't get where you're coming from at this point. I think you're too hung up on ethics and honesty; doing what's right. All I can say is, not everybody is equal. As far as your last point, with everyone choosing the same actions as everyone else to create an equal world - there's a reason no world is like that. Some people live by the rules and morals, others take advantage of/exploit opportunities. It's this mix that creates our real world and this game's world. Whichever you choose to live by is your own opinion, but there's a reason some people have more than others.

I didn't say the world can/would be like that, I said that a single person should choose his actions based on that reasoning. It's obvious that merchanting makes easy cash - the question is whether or not it is moral/ethical practice. That's the whole point of this thread, the OP asks if what her "friend" did was wrong.
Your final statement - that the world exploits opportunities and such - merely says that the world is an unethical place. That should also be obvious.

[bebepanales]

You should know beforehand what the item you're selling is worth, and you should know that selling it for below market value is an invitation for that person to re-sell it. If you don't look up what it's worth before selling it, you deserved to be "merchant'd".

i knew what it was worth. i checked in housing. the thing is he asked for almost half that price, and i gave him a price below that. if i gave him a price below a friend discount he expected, shouldn't it mean anything to him? and what was all that bs of him wanting to have a complete set? and thinking about dye'ing some parts of it?? doesn't that imply his own usage??

[Kazuni]

The difference in ethics is very noticeable. Getting a good deal on an item and reselling it for profit is a lot easier to do when you get it from a stranger, at least in most cases. Either way, ethics aren't really even relevant. Anyone playing the game knows at least A LITTLE about the items and the currency. It's not like we're all natives from an island who've never seen money before and are having it stolen. You should know beforehand what the item you're selling is worth, and you should know that selling it for below market value is an invitation for that person to re-sell it. If you don't look up what it's worth before selling it, you deserved to be "merchant'd".

i knew what it was worth. i checked in housing. the thing is he asked for almost half that price, and i gave him a price below that. if i gave him a price below a friend discount he expected, shouldn't it mean anything to him? and what was all that bs of him wanting to have a complete set? and thinking about dye'ing some parts of it?? doesn't that imply his own usage??


Yeah, the thing isn't that bebepanales didn't know the price.. it wasn't a "good deal", and in this situation, ethics are huge. This person was her friend, and they betrayed the trust that comes with what we call friend discounts. It wasn't originally priced at that, it wasn't carelessness, it was an honest favor for a friend. And so ethics do matter here.

[Kyouria]

However, if I gave something to someone as a gift and they decided to sell it, I won't really say anything about that since it is their item already. Because it's a gift.

Yeah, but purposefully taking advantage of your friends to make profit is an obvious no-no. Maybe its just my biased opinion, but buying from a stranger and selling an item for a higher price is "okay". It's what merchants do in a free market transaction. But in Bebepanales's situation, it was her friend. I think it makes all the difference. If your friend did ask and comment about using it for himself, it does imply that he would. :c

[Cucurbita]

Capitalism sure is grand.

[BobYoMeowMeow]

The cat is awfully miserable if something like that happens to the cat.
Then again, the cat never sells stuff at cheaper prices.
The cat goes average or higher.

[MrShandavio]

i knew what it was worth. i checked in housing. the thing is he asked for almost half that price, and i gave him a price below that. if i gave him a price below a friend discount he expected, shouldn't it mean anything to him? and what was all that bs of him wanting to have a complete set? and thinking about dye'ing some parts of it?? doesn't that imply his own usage??

Well how do you define "friend"? Is it someone you ran a dungeon with one time? Someone you talk to a little bit every day or two? Your next door neighbor who you've known 10 years? It's different depending on how close a "friend" this person is.

As far as I'm concerned, in this game, ethics mean nothing. Considering what happens in the game should have very little effect on you in real life, I don't think it matters all that much. I don't have any life-long friends from playing, nor do I intend to make any while I play. Everyone is more or less a stranger. Do I intend to merchant anybody on purpose? Probably not... I tend to keep and use everything I get. However, the game is a lot more fun if you have more money, more levels, more stats, more skills, etc... so I'd take advantage whenever I can to get ahead, because it means the game is more fun for me. Is what your "friend" did to you crappy? Sure. But we all know it happens all the time, and there's really nothing you can do about it besides preventing it from happening again. :)

[EndlessDreams]

Next time you offer friend discount, make sure that person thinks of you as a friend. It seemed like only you were thinking that that person is your friend. I think that is your source of your problem there.

Buying and reselling for higher itself isn't really legally wrong. As for morals, people use their own set of morals to determine what is wrong and what is right.

What if that person brought the item, used it for a long time, and then sell it for a higher price? Would people object to that?

[Murasaki]

If it's a friend, and they told you THEY wanted it, and then puts it up for sale, I'd say it's wrong. I'd get the item back. It's unfair to you. A "friend" blatantly buys it off you for cheap just so they can sell? What kind of friend is that?