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Thread: Why Summon Golem is not overpowered

  1. #1
    Mabination User Cryosite the Mabination seal breaker Cryosite the Mabination seal breaker
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    Why Summon Golem is not overpowered

    Most of the arguments that abound stating that the skill summon golem is overpowered are based around a couple of things.

    One: Golems out damage high-end melee players. Wither this is single hit or dps is generally not really spelled out in these arguments, they just state this flatly.

    Lets try to understand this point. When they refer to high-end melee players, they are very likely referring to the melee player's wm skill vs golem's wm skill and smash vs smash, as the apparently accepted melee tactic is smashmill, and nothing else.

    Melee characters have more melee options than golem. Golem has wm, smash, stomp, and defense. Stomp is a support tool when used by a golem at best, if used at all and can generally be ignored. As far as I know most giants only rank it for the STR anyway, pvp lulz, or for use against red dragon.

    Defense is largely useless on a golem as well. Therefor golems only really have to relevant skills: smash and wm. While smashmill is a decent strategy, melee players have access to skills like assault slash, charge, final hit, and counter attack. Melee players can also use bolt spells to do tactics like ice tennis, bolt counter, and so on.

    You also can't control pets while controlling golem.

    For actual melee combat, the golem only has size and damage going for it, but it is by no means a complete substitute for a real player. It is highly limited in melee options, and cannot make use of any of the hybrid options available to a real player.

    Damage is important, but there is more to playing melee than just damage. Using the tactics available to a player that a giant cannot do, a player can outperform a golem. If you limit yourself, as a player, to only smashmill, then you are a bad player. I see nothing overpowered about a golem doing better than a bad player.

    Two: golem somehow renders melee players obsolete: What is the basis for this statement? Fireball makes melee obsolete, is it overpowered? Fireball, especially when used in a group of people, is far more devastating than a melee player. In situations where there are large numbers of targets, fireball does greater single hit and greater dps than a high-end melee player.

    Fireball is also much cheaper cost wise, and far easier training wise to get to rk1 than building up a complete melee player's gear and skills. Heck, it is easier than golem. It will be even cheaper to use/maintain than golem come g14 with personal farms.

    Clearly fireball is overpowered, because it makes high end melee players obsolete. Why does golem get special attention for being one of the many skills that do this?

    Three: High-end melee players deserve equal standing to other classes. They should be able to complete evenly with other classes.

    First: http://mabination.com/threads/20548-...ght=wind+blast

    Just because you can design a build or class doesn't mean it deserves to be as good as everything else. Some builds are simply better than others. Sometimes this is by a very large amount. Mabinogi doesn't have classes. There is -nothing- stopping you from getting whatever skill you want and using it for your character.

    Before someone brings up the destiny system: You can choose the knight destiny and still summon a golem or equip a fire wand and cast fireball. There is no -class- system in mabi that limits you to using pure melee.

    Everyone will end up the same: if golem is such a good skill, then yes everyone should get it. Just like people having been saying for years that everyone should get WM. You can play a perfectly effective character without WM, just like you can play a perfectly effective character without golem. Many players don't bother with the most ideal selection of skills, otherwise we would all end up elven ranger/mage/alchemist hybrids spamming crash shot.

    As for why KR players are all QQing so hard, who knows. Realistically they should all be spamming fireball, not golem.

    Newbies getting powerful fast: As much as this might chafe your chaps, this is a good thing. If you're the sort of person who hates the idea of other people having an easier time playing the game than you had, gtfo. This happens to -all- mmo's. If you create a game and the community stagnates, people get bored and leave. The only way to keep the community fresh it to bring in new players. And for those new players to enjoy the game, they have to have it easier and faster than the veterans had it. If it takes them the same three years to develop their character that it took you, then 3 more years worth of content will come out before they can do the same activities you do. By then you will be doing something else, and will have a 6-yr old character. They will never catch up.

    If you want to enjoy a solo game, go play an offline console game like Elder Scrolls series of games. You will never have to worry about some newbie coming around and getting to near your level of proness in a shorter time than it took you.

    In summary, people are whining about golem being overpowered because they are ignorant and don't understand game balance. Concerns like cost vs reward, veterans vs newbies, and build A vs build B are all meaningless.
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  2. #2
    Θ ε Θ Zeo the wise Zeo the wise Zeo the wise Zeo the wise Zeo the wise Zeo the wise Zeo's Avatar
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    Thank you for making this thread, Cryo, you deserves a rep. *rep*

    I'm sick of the whiners whining and QQing about Golem being OP as well.. .__.;
    Uhh... here's my Mabination pets? :v

  3. #3
    Dracius the shadow hero Dracius the shadow hero Dracius the shadow hero Dracius the shadow hero Dracius's Avatar
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    Endgame Knights beat golems in terms of bossing, due to the ability to perform long series of combos using different skills.

    Golems beat Knights in terms of ease-of-use, cost, and mobbing.

  4. #4
    The Great Owl
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    A level 99 alchemist can deal 2k critical windmills.
    A level 500 alchemist can outdamage the vast majority of melee players.

    You can windmill whole rooms full of enemies, dealing outstanding damage from outside the room or from a great distance. Should your puppet die in a shadow mission, simply summon another. The mission continues. That's overpowered.


  5. #5
    Panda. Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science's Avatar
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    I don't think other skills really come into play when you kill everything with one hit, and the fact that your puppet is highly expendable makes me even more po'd.

  6. #6
    abc33kr has slain a prairie dragon abc33kr has slain a prairie dragon abc33kr has slain a prairie dragon abc33kr has slain a prairie dragon abc33kr has slain a prairie dragon abc33kr has slain a prairie dragon abc33kr has slain a prairie dragon
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    sigh radical extremists...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeporo View Post
    A level 99 alchemist can deal 2k critical windmills.
    A level 500 alchemist can outdamage the vast majority of melee players.

    You can windmill whole rooms full of enemies, dealing outstanding damage from outside the room or from a great distance. Should your puppet die in a shadow mission, simply summon another. The mission continues. That's overpowered.
    what lasts longer the puppet or the player
    what do you rebirth, the puppet or the player
    what can you transform the puppet or the player
    what do you spend most of your time as the puppet or the player
    what do you use Magic with the puppet or the player
    what do you customize your appearance of the puppet or the player
    what has unlimited potential throughout the game's life puppet or player?
    etc
    I edit my posts too much

  8. #8
    The Wandering Alchemist

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    So, the common belief is that golem is too powerful and should be nerfed, not to mention the fact it threatens the status of melee warriors.

    Why? Simple, because golems have a bigger windmill radius than that of the player, making them much easier to maintain the battle field through constant windmilling and when looking at a maximized power of a white golem, its pure raw base damage is 777 (gee devCat sure picked a meaningful number...), the exact formula is below:

    (Golem Base Damage + Skill Rank Damage Bonus) * [(100 + (AM Bonus + EM Bonus + EM Title Bonus)*3)/100] * [(100 + Cylinder Bonus)/100]
    *AM is Alchemy Mastery, EM is Earth Alchemy Mastery (that's right the EM title bonus is not an over all 10% increase for golem, it is 10% more to the EM efficiency).

    Now then, how many melee can actually get a raw base damage up to 777? Not many, especially with the spotlight bonus effect in theater missions, many players can easily obtain 999 strength stats. However, when they are hit with this ray of despair (yes that's right, you heard me, ray of despair, even though most people are so happy at first they got that 999 stats and think it is awesome!), they soon discovered that in all their hard work they will not match up to the raw power of the Gundam, err I mean white devil, no! I mean the white golem.

    Here is a example of a failed Dark Knight with 999 stats:


    Failed? Failed?? You call that Fail??? Because when you consider this transformed giant into effect:


    Or even just this little gentlemen over here:


    So what? Every melee should go home and cry? Yes and No. Yes if the only thing that you know is Windmill Windmill Windmill Windmill and o Yea Windmill! That would be the job for a golem, not you. Raw power is not the only thing people should take into account for. Melee warriors have skills that can be chained into combos, unlike golem that can only smash and windmill. Any decent golem user should know that golem have its limits even at its best.

    Should golem really be nerfed in terms of damage? No, not really, the size was already modified, so in my opinion golems are fine. What make the golem strong in the first place is its Windmill ability, if anything should be nerfed in this game, it is windmill, but that would be impossible since it is so well rooted in the game now.

    Now then, back to recap the points:
    1. Just because Gundams, I mean white golems have 777 raw damage does not mean you the player are less powerful.
    2. 999 stats does not mean maximized power (Even for int, because there ARE Magic Atk increasing enchants), because you can go beyond 999 through damage.


    (>_> Almighty Cat, 1016 barehand damage, its hand is glowing with an awsome power!!)

    Source: http://mabidata.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=645
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  9. #9
    Panda. Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science is a Nation Alchemist Science's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevian View Post
    what lasts longer the puppet or the player
    what do you rebirth, the puppet or the player
    what can you transform the puppet or the player
    what do you spend most of your time as the puppet or the player
    what do you use Magic with the puppet or the player
    what do you customize your appearance of the puppet or the player
    what has unlimited potential throughout the game's life puppet or player?
    etc
    That doesn't matter if the puppet embodies the abilities of a combatant four times as strong as the puppeteer.

    In my eyes

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirayuki View Post
    That doesn't matter if the puppet embodies the abilities of a combatant four times as strong as the puppeteer.

    In my eyes
    if it doesn't what would be the point? o3o
    I edit my posts too much

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