Lance Penetration vs Tethra Sword vs Tyrfing

[Sinsie]

Hi! I’d like to know if I’ve completed these calculations correctly in an attempt to better understand the usefulness of piercing/defense-ignoring weapons.

I used these formulas I found digging through old posts:

 Spoiler:

Damage = ((Attack x Attack Modifier) – Defense ) ((100 – Protection)/100)
&
Attack = ((Max Atk – Min Atk)Balance) + Min Atk


(Thanks to Fyois for the explanation:

http://mabination.com/threads/29917-...ghlight=damage

So, I took for my two examples the most ideal circumstances I could think of. I’m sure some of you could figure out an even better set-up, so anyone that wants to correct me, please do so. I compared a Knight Lance with a level 7 piercing modification with the Defense-ignoring Tethra Sword, and then added Tyrfing with its Deadly bonus in order to see how effective they are against various enemies and overall if one was better than the others all/most of the time or if they each had their ideal and awkward circumstances. I’m assuming the balance for the user is 80% for each weapon and that all enchants/upgrades give the weapons the absolute fullest benefit.

One last note, I have no idea how to add critical into all this so I apologize for that right now. All this is focused on just pure strength damage.

Knight Lance, upgraded along the 248 path, so 45-80 damage.

 Spoiler:

+25-48 damage from blue stone upgrade
+14 max from Siege enchant
+10 max from Penetrating enchant, +6 max with Lance Master title
+12-25 damage from Rank 1 Lance Mastery
+10 max with Lance Master title

Added all up is 82-193 with level 7 penetration. Attack = ((193-82).8) + 82 = 170.8. Level 7 Penetration allows any lance that can reach it (currently it seems only Knight Lance is able) to ignore 30 Defense and 14 Protection.

Against enemies with the following Defense(Protection)’s:

 Spoiler:

30(15): Damage = (170.8-0)((100-1)/100) = 169.092
30(30): Damage = (170.8-0)((100-16)/100) = 143.472
50(50): Damage = (170.8-20)((100-36)/100) = 96.512
100(50): Damage = ((170.8-70)((100-36)/100) = 64.512

Tethra Sword’s turn! No upgrades available, only enchants. I’m a newb so I picked what I found best. Base 60-120.

 Spoiler:

+29 max from Crocodile enchant
+10-20 damage from Sword Mastery
+37-44 damage from the best Strength scores from both Crocodile and Necromancer (Croc +20 Str, Necro +42 Str, +20/22 Str depending on whether you’re a human or giant. Since I round down the Strength anyways it doesn’t matter) and from a +30 Strength title.

Added all up is 107-213. Attack = ((213-107).8) + 107 = 191.8. This sword will furthermore ignore the Defense stat on any target (excluding Liches + Banshees maybe?).

Against enemies with the following Defense(Protection)’s:

 Spoiler:

(15): Damage = (191.8)((100-15)/100) = 163.03
(30): Damage = (191.8)((100-30)/100) = 134.26
(50): Damage = (191.8)((100-50)/100) = 95.9

(No need to calculate 100(50) here since it'd be the same as 50(50))

So from this so far, we can see that the Tethra Sword and Knight Lance lv7 are competing pretty well with each other, and the Tethra Sword only really shines over the Knight Lance when enemies have an obscene amount of Defense. Now finally, let’s add in the legendary cursed sword, Tyrfing, to see how effective a pure damage weapon is compared to these two.

Tyrfing, base 70-140 damage.

 Spoiler:

+10-12 from 30 Strength Title
+10-20 damage from Sword Mastery
+75-130 damage from Deadly Status

This would bring Tyrfing to 165-302 damage. Attack = ((302-165).8) + 165 = 274.6.

Against enemies with the following Defense(Protection)’s:

 Spoiler:

30(15): Damage = ((274.6)-30)((100-15)/100) = 207.91
30(30): Damage = ((274.6)-30)((100-30)/100) = 171.22
50(50): Damage = ((274.6)-50)((100-50)/100) = 112.3
100(50): Damage = ((274.6)-100)((100-50)/100) = 87.3

So, assuming I did the calculations correctly, had the right formula, and picked good enough enchantments + title use to demonstrate the weapons effectively, it seems that the Tethra Sword is a very viable alternative to using a Knight Lance for taking on heavily armored enemies. Although to be fair, I didn’t take into account any modifiers such as Smash, Lance’s additional boost with Smash, and Lance Charge + its boost from riding a mount, etc. So in that regard, a Knight Lance is a weapon with more variables to consider that can make it better suited for different situations, plus is an entirely different fighting style from swordplay.

The downside though is all of this was assuming you got the absolute best rolls on the Knight Lance and those enchants.

Tethra Sword can excel against certain monsters, but two things come to mind: 1. I’m curious as to how many of those monsters could simply be poisoned, and 2. The only monsters that have insane defenses way above 100 are those Peaca mobs. Which at first sounds awesome, but then I realized that their health is way into the thousands/ten-thousand and they have advanced heavy stander. So to me, Tethra Sword is mostly an alternative to using a piercing Lance.

Tyrfing seems like the best weapon to use since it requires no enchants or upgrades to deal with and only loses to Tethra Sword in extreme circumstances, being able to use brute force and nothing else. Of course the major downside is being one-hit away from death in order to achieve this.



I did all this to get a good idea of what weapons I may want in the future for different enemies, being primarily a melee person in Mabinogi. I’m not sure how to handle dual-wield, 2-hit vs 3-hit weapons, N+1, etc into damage calculations, so unfortunately I can’t keep comparing how much of an advantage these special weapons have over weapons that deal with enemy defense and protection stats normally, so if anyone would like to explain it to me, please feel free to do so!

Hopefully I did this right, and therefore may provide to anyone some useful insight in the pro’s and con’s of these weapons. If not, I’m sincerely looking for corrections. Sorry for the super-long read!

Maybe.

Finally, all three weapons compared at the bottom for convenience:

 Spoiler:

Defense(Protection)

0(0):
Knight Lance - 170.8
Tethra Sword - 191.8
Tyrfing - 274.6

30(15):
Knight Lance - 169.092
Tethra Sword - 163.03
Tyrfing - 207.91

30(30):
Knight Lance - 143.472
Tethra Sword - 134.26
Tyrfing - 171.22

50(50):
Knight Lance - 96.512
Tethra Sword - 95.9
Tyrfing - 112.3

100(50):
Knight Lance - 64.512
Tethra Sword - 95.9
Tyrfing - 87.3

[Xemnas]

Still getting Tethra because it looks awesome and has very useful effect.

[Aubog007]

Tethra > Elite mobs and Peaca int mobs.

[Sinsie]

Tethra > Elite mobs and Peaca int mobs.

Do the mobs in Elite missions have ridiculous amounts of Defense? I noticed that Protection seemingly caps at 50 for most monsters, and unfortunately the wiki doesn't have a list of monsters ranked by their Defense or Protection stats, so I wasn't able to target specific monsters and instead just made up numbers that gave a good idea of how effective the weapons could be.

[Aubog007]

Do the mobs in Elite missions have ridiculous amounts of Defense? I noticed that Protection seemingly caps at 50 for most monsters, and unfortunately the wiki doesn't have a list of monsters ranked by their Defense or Protection stats, so I wasn't able to target specific monsters and rather just made up numbers that gave a good idea of how effective the weapons would be.

I believe 60 defense is base stat for elite mobs.

This is before the mob base stat is included.

All elite mobs have at LEAST 60 defense.

[Xemnas]

Do the mobs in Elite missions have ridiculous amounts of Defense? I noticed that Protection seemingly caps at 50 for most monsters, and unfortunately the wiki doesn't have a list of monsters ranked by their Defense or Protection stats, so I wasn't able to target specific monsters and instead just made up numbers that gave a good idea of how effective the weapons could be.

Use shadow warriors/fighters as a base for shadow missions since they pop up the most.

[Sinsie]

I love this game and its making all weapons viable factor.



Also, I remembered something I was confused about: if you critically hit an enemy, does it ignore their Protection stat? As in, an enemy has 30 Protection, you windmill and crit it, does the damage get calculated as if the enemy had 0 Protection instead? Or no, the enemy didn't stop your crit, but it still reduces its damage by 30%?

[Aubog007]

Also 25% protection is base protection. So for elite mobs you are required to have at LEAST 80% crit for capped crit.

This once again is applied before any actual mob stat.



For damage question.
Damage is still reduced by prot.

[Benier]

Based on OP's assumptions on 50% prot mobs, the numbers are all well and good but at the end of the day you may still want to be able to achieve 30% critical rate with skills outside of windmill. If that were the case, it's far easier to achieve that with knight lances considering the artisan, and the piercing without having to sacrifice damage enchants for critical rate enchants.

[Aubog007]

Based on OP's assumptions on 50% prot mobs, the numbers are all well and good but at the end of the day you may still want to be able to achieve 30% critical rate with skills outside of windmill. If that were the case, it's far easier to achieve that with knight lances considering the artisan, and the piercing without having to sacrifice damage enchants for critical rate enchants.

Piercing i believe doesn't affect crit rate.
Only damage calculations.
Not Critical Calculations.


If it did. I would main a lance in Peaca.