Who here is going to play Guild Wars 2 when it comes out?

[Kingofrunes]

This is probably going to be the biggest let down of 2012.

We'll see. My coworker said she didn't like the first Guild Wars but she has hope for Guild Wars 2. We shall see though. As for server, I guess that's something I'll have to see what my coworkers are doing.

[Zid]

Be aware you can visit other servers.

This is probably going to be the biggest let down of 2012.

At least it's not subscription-based.

A letdown just doesn't feel as bad if it's free afterwards.

[whocares8128]

At least it's not subscription-based.

A letdown just doesn't feel as bad if it's free afterwards.

I wouldn't be so sure. I was pumped up for this game too, but when looking at my pre-purchase options... I was suddenly hit with uncertainty about the game's future.

When $20 more on a pre-purchase buys extra PvP and guild points, a summoning skill, a miniature Rytlock (whatever that's good for), and 5 days of accessing your account storage from anywhere, I feel like the game is gearing up to be a pay-once-to-play-and-keep-paying-to-win type of game.

[Zid]

I wouldn't be so sure. I was pumped up for this game too, but when looking at my pre-purchase options... I was suddenly hit with uncertainty about the game's future.

When $20 more on a pre-purchase buys extra PvP and guild points, a summoning skill, a miniature Rytlock (whatever that's good for), and 5 days of accessing your account storage from anywhere, I feel like the game is gearing up to be a pay-once-to-play-and-keep-paying-to-win type of game.

Those PvP points (Glory) are only used to buy cosmetic items that you can only wear in structured PvP.

I'm iffy about the guild points (Influence) gain boost, but it's just one. From what I know of guilds in GW2, guilds can purchase that Influence boost in-game via their upgrade section. Unless you're telling me that even one "real life paid" boost means a clear advantage forever.

Summoning elite skill (Summon Mistfire Wolf) is implied by the developers themselves to be on par with racial elite skills. Racial elite skills themselves are weaker and less useful than profession elite skills.

Rytlock miniature pet is for aesthetics. The only pets that will help you in combat are the ones you summon with your professions.

The bank access (Golem Banker) is mostly useful in dungeons, I assume. The reason why I say this is because there are many Waypoints per area, which can teleport you for a small fee. Then again, if you needed to use the bank in dungeons, people will probably question your preparation habits.

Also, the cash shop items are not final. This has been said repeatedly and ArenaNet is open to suggestions on how to improve it for everybody who uses it and don't use it.

[whocares8128]

First off, I should state that I've only ever briefly played GW1 (in some sort of trial) and that was so long ago that I remember very little of it. I'm also no expert on GW2, so take what I say here with a grain of salt.

Still...
I've played enough games to know that where there are single-use cash items (at all), there are likely more single-use items that will also be (or become) available to purchase.

The golem banker is essentially an in-game service that only lasts 5 days at a time. I see it becoming much more useful later on when people have collected tons of stuff (and, like me, they want to have all those things close at hand).

And even if the Glory only unlocks cosmetic differences... oh, boy... I don't even want to get into how much I've done for purely cosmetic differences. I will say that I have well over 2 entire inventory tabs dedicated to equipment on my Evie (Vindictus), and that the majority of money I've spent on that game was for expanding my inventory. I'm sure many still playing Mabinogi have sunk much more money into their cosmetic endeavors.


I can't/won't say what will or will not be available in the cash shop on release. However, since these items have already been created (obviously), and the benefits are desirable, I won't be surprised to see them available later on. It would be foolish to assume that the items are only going to be available for pre-purchases only (unless there is an official statement saying that).

tl/dr;
But my real point is this: Whenever cash items bestow benefits normally achieved by playing the game, it demeans the game itself.

[Zid]

tl/dr;
But my real point is this: Whenever cash items bestow benefits normally achieved by playing the game, it demeans the game itself.

I'm fine with that, really. There's something to be said about having played a MMORPG for a while, and making friends who are just starting out but can't participate in what you usually do because they're too low-leveled. That's mainly the reason why boosters were made.

Does it demean the game? Yes and no. If you see somebody as competition, then boosters can be seen as something that makes your effort have less value. If you see somebody as someone you want to play with, why should we not let them play with each other because of level differences?

I don't know how many times I wish for EXP boosters in an MMORPG, just so I can skip the grind and get to the fun stuff (like raiding) with friends I made who are up there already. The problem isn't the boosters. It's the grind itself. This is why some F2P MMOs have insane amount of grinding before reaching the "fun stuff", so they can encourage the players to buy boosters (and profit off of that).

Why do you think multiplayer FPSs are adopting a similar progression structure to MMORPGs, and then selling "progression" for money (such as that DLC for BF3 that unlocks everything)?

Boosters are just a (responsive) effect to the real demeaning of MMO games: grinding excessively before accessing content considered to be fun.

Boosters in GW2 serve one purpose, and the developers themselves outright stated it: They don't want players to be barred away from each other by a progression gap. Having a "low level cap" and boosters are some of the (not really the best, but...) solutions to this issue.

[whocares8128]

There's something to be said about having played a MMORPG for a while, and making friends who are just starting out but can't participate in what you usually do because they're too low-leveled. That's mainly the reason why boosters were made.

I would think that generally, when you're meeting people in-game, it's because you're in roughly the same point in the game's progression. If it's a real-life friend, well, to that I offer to role a new character to progress through the game with them.

Boosters that give some multiplier to rewards are one thing, but boosters that simply hand you X amount of some play reward are altogether different.

Does it demean the game? Yes and no. If you see somebody as competition, then boosters can be seen as something that makes your effort have less value. If you see somebody as someone you want to play with, why should we not let them play with each other because of level differences?

I don't know how many times I wish for EXP boosters in an MMORPG, just so I can skip the grind and get to the fun stuff (like raiding) with friends I made who are up there already. The problem isn't the boosters. It's the grind itself. This is why some F2P MMOs have insane amount of grinding before reaching the "fun stuff", so they can encourage the players to buy boosters (and profit off of that).

It's not about the value of my effort, and please believe me when I say that I don't play games to stroke my ego. Hackers in Vindictus accumulate everything at a much faster rate than I do. But, I still enjoy playing the game, and I don't have to deal with hackers until I use the marketplace.

I'm also all for letting people of any level play together. But rather than sell items designed to quickly propel people to whatever requirements there are for such content, I'd rather see the requirements themselves lowered or eliminated. If I want to venture into almost certain death at a low level, why stop me?

Also, I think your point about getting to the "fun stuff" really indicates an (intentional?) error in the design of many MMOs. The "grind" should be enjoyable (something that you don't want to skip). If the gameplay is a chore, then why play? By selling such game-skipping items, the game itself is basically telling you that it isn't very fun to play (or at least, that the gameplay gets old before your grind is over). That's why I say it's self-demeaning.

Why do you think multiplayer FPSs are adopting a similar progression structure to MMORPGs, and then selling "progression" for money (such as that DLC for BF3 that unlocks everything)?

I don't know, nor do I want to know. I don't play such games. It is an obstacle to joining a competitive multi-player gaming community to know that everyone else will have, not only more knowledge of the terrain and experience in play, but also upgraded equipment and weapons/abilities that I can't use.


Anyway... I don't want to derail the topic any more than I already have, so if you (or anyone else) would like to discuss this further, please send me a PM instead (or make a new thread).

 Spoiler:

Honestly, I wanted to voice these concerns in one of these threads, but I wasn't sure at 4 weeks old (~28 days?) if that would be considered necroposting or not. I figured it probably would or they'd have been marked [GW], since a simple search for "guild wars" turns them up.

On-topic:
Not me
I'll wait for the reviews.

[Mystickskye]

:|

[Cucurbita]

Can't judge based on preorder benefits though. Almost every mmorpg's have them regardless of whether or not microtransactions are in the game or not.

But I've learned to not trust free to play anymore.

[TA]

^it's not f2p. Gotta pay for the initial game itself.

This is probably going to be the biggest let down of 2012.

I was going to say something about how ANet is awesome and GW2 isn't going to be a letdown.

Then I played it.

Holy shit monkeys. This game sucks ass!