I am pretty sure kai was still pretty imba when he was just released, look at this person's video and you can see the changes.
The nerfs are enough to bring kai from way up there down to on par with lann in terms of dps. (he is still quite op, mind you)
Video:
Edit: you can see the person mentioned both test server and regular server had the same kai before the nerf, not just that test server one's buffed. So yea, the nerf comes after he was live on regular server.
that guy is obviously over geared.... (if you give kai the same gear, probably don't need as much def, you will see similar performance)
edit: and it's the fact that kai requires fewer gears to perform at the same level as other class, high dps and high survivability, that makes him op (yes, it's just like staffie, and that's why people say staffie is op too) You can use a overgeared sword fiona and compare it to a average geared kai and say that fiona performed much better; but that doesn't mean sword fiona is op, it's just the one you're talking about is geared to teeth, and makes her look like she's op.
Ask any spear lann with a +6 spear to solo klaus in 6 min without stacking def, not going to happen.
dps wise they are similar, probably spear lann will come on top if survivability isn't a problem; but spear lann requires def stacking to tank spin, and kai don't. Or you can say skills, but skill doesn't affect whether a class is op or not.
that guy is obviously over geared.... (if you give kai the same gear, probably don't need as much def, you will see similar performance)
edit: and it's the fact that kai requires fewer gears to perform at the same level as other class, high dps and high survivability, that makes him op (yes, it's just like staffie, and that's why people say staffie is op too) You can use a overgeared sword fiona and compare it to a average geared kai and say that fiona performed much better; but that doesn't mean sword fiona is op, it's just the one you're talking about is geared to teeth, and makes her look like she's op.
Ask any spear lann with a +6 spear to solo klaus in 6 min without stacking def, not going to happen.
dps wise they are similar, probably spear lann will come on top if survivability isn't a problem; but spear lann requires def stacking to tank spin, and kai don't. Or you can say skills, but skill doesn't affect whether a class is op or not.
So basically he's good, but he does less DPS and it's cheaper.
Originally Posted by MareneCorp
Don't judge the whole population based on one guy -_-
Would you like me to link about 20 more? There's quite a few people doing stuff like this.
Characters like Evie only seem "too good" when they have average equipment, and "average" is a weird word at this point. Everyone will get scrolls from levelling up through the 60's that, even if they wasted their money, would at least afford a +8-10 and some basic armor. That doesn't include whatever other money/drops they may collect.
There was a time when it was a real pain in the butt to get started, but now that people are given a scroll that sells for 35-40m and a few more that sell for a bit less just by levelling, I think the standard for what is basic and average should be higher.
I highly doubt about 20 guys equals all of America, most of the average Lann players can't do something like that. Same goes with all the other characters, there are basically too many people in different skill ranges to compare.
I could probably find even more if I really looked all the way through Youtube, and you could too, but we're too lazy for that. This doesn't consider the fact that some people just don't (or can't) record their games. 50% of the people I've run into ingame who do outstanding things never uploaded a single video. Who knows, maybe there are more in guild runs and solo matches being that they're obviously capable of such things in reasonable amounts of time. Some people playing from Asia also host their videos on other sites, so there's that too.
The point is that this is achievable exclusively by Lann and other characters, even fully geared with equivalent/better things, will not match him. The other point is that it's not like this is just one elite dude doing something amazing, but something that is actually "doable" to people who put their minds to it. It's not just an idea or something that would require 16 hours/day of playing anymore and to be honest, it hasn't been for a while. Times change.
I'm not saying a 3 minute Thor solo isn't a big deal, because it is, but there's been quite a few sub-10 Thor Lann solos now and plenty of other things like hero solos, other raid solos, etc.
Originally Posted by MareneCorp
most of the average Lann players can't do something like that.
So what? Most of the average Fionas sit in HS and die, most of the average Evies get their ambers broken all the time and die, and most Karoks just... die. That doesn't change the fact that we know they're good characters.
Last edited by RebeccaBlack; 06-09-2012 at 07:36 PM.
So basically he's good, but he does less DPS and it's cheaper.
Nope, that's not what I said.
I said spear lann MIGHT come out on top of dps if survivability isn't a problem. And we all know survivability is a huge problem for spear lann, but not for Kai.
With the amount of money you put into lann for survivability, kai can easily use that for more offense.
So it's not lesser dps, but cheaper most definitely; and the fact you can achieve similar performance with lesser effort is quite op in my opinion.
I said spear lann MIGHT come out on top of dps if survivability isn't a problem. And we all know survivability is a huge problem for spear lann, but not for Kai.
With the amount of money you put into lann for survivability, kai can easily use that for more offense.
So it's not lesser dps, but cheaper most definitely; and the fact you can achieve similar performance with lesser effort is quite op in my opinion.
I guess I just don't believe he can reach that level of DPS. From what I've seen, he isn't in that range of power with equivalent gear. Maybe that changes past the 13-14K range.
He definitely has great survivability which means defense wouldn't be necessary, but it's always nice to go for when the choice becomes relatively inexpensive compared to weapon upgrades. Each weapon upgrade at least doubles in price after a certain point, so yeah. I can see how it would be argued that because he doesn't "need" to stack defense, it would be better to throw it all in offense even if it gives him less room for error.
Originally Posted by xJac
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