Spam Discussion + Some Announcements
It is finally time for the big topic that has everyone on their toes. We'll be talking about spam, the definition of spam, and certain members of the community. But first, I have to explain why the staff have been so passive about our controversial spam problem.
You are a staff member whose job is to enforce the rules and keep the forum a nice place. When the community questions your ability to do this fairly (ie, being biased or providing special treatments), the worst possible thing to do would be to act outside of what the currently existing rules allow. Therefore, punishing someone "on discretion" or "because many people have requested so" is actually the very exact thing that the community criticizes the moderators for. This breaks a line between fairness and opens a path to tribal witch-hunting; a somewhat barbaric path that we just don't want to go down.
It really is a tricky situation. The best way to deal with this is to redefine "spam" in general so that our standards of what is considered spam is changed. Here is the difficult part: this new definition will apply to everyone.
You see, since becoming admin, I did a lot of digging through past threads and posts. I looked at every post that people have complained about being spam, and every thread that was reported for spam. Each and every person who voiced their discontent at the post/thread for its irrelevant and spammy nature has, at some point, posted a post/thread of their own with the same level of irrelevant and spammy nature. This hypocrisy makes it really difficult for me to get a grasp of what you people really want.
To start, I will simply fix the Mabinogi-Splatulated spam issue with one change. He will now be required to only ask questions in his own dedicated thread. Each time he makes a thread for a question, we'll be giving him an infraction for minor spamming (2 points each). Like all other users, he will be automatically banned at 10 points. Though this contradicts the nature of what I had explained just above, his inability to process and maintain information when the moderators warn him has led them to become a cleanup crew for merging/moving/fixing his trail of posts. This really is a band-aid fix, one which I'm not sure can stick or not.
For Bean Rua spam, this is the responsibility of the community as a whole, and not just myself. Bean Rua has always been an Off-Topic section, for threads that do not belong in other areas of the forums. But at the same time, we have an Everything Else section, which is actually even described as following, "If it isn't spam and doesn't belong anywhere else, it goes here." Essentially speaking, Bean Rua has always been a spam board. If you guys want this changed, then you need to decide what is too spammy for Bean Rua, right here in this thread.
Dig up 2~3 threads that you believe are too spammy to be allowed in Bean Rua and post it here. There is actually a very strong likelihood that I will actually be able to find a thread that is very similar but you don't/didn't find spammy, and even participated in. For the sake of defining the clearest standard possible, try your best to play devil's advocates for both others and yourself. What is spam? What isn't spam? By those conditions, have you spammed?
In other news, here are some quick announcements.
Lewd has been given the negative rep disease.
Hitaki's signature has been changed to best girl.
Osayidan's rep title is now "the Soda Dispenser".
Yakumo Yukari has been awarded gold for his good behavior. 4 to be exact. It actually cost me more to send that gold.
These were all necessary changes to improve the functionality of mabination. Source.
Last edited by Ashikoki; 04-16-2013 at 07:28 AM.
Awesome, keep up the good work! You're a lot more involved in the community and voicing your choices, I like that a lot. <3
Well I have no clear definition of spam other than making 10+ threads in a section in the span of a few hours. I at least try to limit myself to 1-5 threads (most of the time less) in any given day. But the Splat question thread should clean that up without any further actions.
On second thought I changed my mind. I think a post containing a single word like "^" or "this" or "^ this" as spam. As well as the one image reaction posts I see frequently in mabinogi talk.
The image posts are fine in threads dedicated to that sort of thing, but on threads where some discussion or opinions are being generated, one image posts don't have much of a place in them.
Last edited by Kingofrunes; 04-16-2013 at 09:35 AM.
Originally Posted by Kingofrunes
I think what people are annoyed by the most is the quantity rather than the quality (but they also collide, low quality threads + high quantity of them = BAD + BAD = Irritation)
I also agree. I think we can all agree that it's acceptable for thread in Bean Rua to be of low quality. After all, it's bean rua.
But if you're going to post more than 5 thread in bean rua in a day, unless they're outstanding and exceptional threads (i.e. an interesting discussion that isn't necessarily suited to everything else or rua's house, a funny youtube video [even though we have a thread for that], talking about a life event that happened), i'm going to get pissed off very quickly.
I do believe that Splat's non-mabi questions generally constitute spam because they can be answered within a few posts AND they're posted a frequently. I don't really have a solution to that though, because just one thread in Bean Rua doesn't really seem fair or fit the nature of everyone's favorite trashcan of a forum.
I don't really think a post like "^" is necessarily spam given there's no post count accumulation, but if you're going to do that in a thread i'm going to roll my eyes because wow way to contribute a quality post to a thread.
Last edited by Claudia; 04-16-2013 at 11:08 AM.
I think the image reply posts are okay if the content of the image expresses correctly and respectfully what would have otherwise been said with text.
A picture is worth 1000 words... just make sure those words are the right ones and follow the rules.
Would like other people's opinions on that.
Eh, I don't really care about "^" and image posts in BR because, as it has been stated a few times now, BR is essentially just a spam section. Now, if this happens frequently in other sections of the forum, then I guess I could understand. But as long as it's within reason and isn't happening in every other post, then I suppose there could be some exceptions. Especially if "^" or an image post is accompanied by actual text relevant to the discussion. Then I see no reason why that kind of post wouldn't be allowed.
As for a posting limit, I think 5-10 threads a day in the BR section is fine as long as you're not taking up an entire page within like, an hour or something. Splat's BR posts have been fairly reasonable in my opinion. There have been other members who have done the same before, and in Splat's case, he's actually asking a question in most of them. Whether that question is deemed unnecessary by other members is irrelevant because, again, it's a spam section. It doesn't have to be a serious question. And frankly, I'd much rather see a bunch of "why is the sky blue?", "why do cats meow?" types of threads as opposed to some of the old spam threads we've had. At least he actually means well and is just genuinely curious and isn't just making threads like "LOL BUTTS DURR HURR".
It's still pretty clear to me that one of the biggest issues was just a personal bias against him (because lord knows people love picking on abnormal people), but I do agree that this will definitely help both sides, even if Splat himself wasn't the main problem.
Image posts and ^ and this posts don't bother me too much in bean rua. It does bother me in main topic formus though where all you see is people piggy back riding on other peoples posts or posting stupid images that aren't necessarily needed.
That's not to say that you can't post images, but at least put some additional words in it. I mean sure a Chris Hansen image is fun and all in mabinogi talk when I'm talking about shotalach to give a concrete example, but at least put in some words with that.
Although to be fair a chris hansen image does amuse me and does speak for itself but for the quality expected in one of the main forum sections? I don't know I guess it all comes down to other people's expectations.
Last edited by Kingofrunes; 04-16-2013 at 11:43 AM.