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Thread: Puppet help

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    Mabination User Traw was almost killed by a brown fox
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    Puppet help

    I want to be the very best....
    So how can improve my puppet damage greatly
    I want to be useful

  2. #2
    Armaments Wasbewwi has saved the goddess
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    Enchants, rank up the puppet skills?

  3. #3
    Victorique Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traw View Post
    I want to be the very best....
    So how can improve my puppet damage greatly
    I want to be useful
    I wish you good luck with that O_O

    First of all, puppets are focused around mob control. Your first priority is to try and tie everything up so that everything's not owning up your party members unless you know you can one/two hit the room with act 7.

    That said, it's important to not get in the way of your party members too.

    I'd like to stress that because unless you can kill elite mobs with your non-crit crisis/act 4, you're going to need to work in with people and a little bit of teamwork and consideration with puppets can go a long way.

    ---

    As for puppet damage, the first thing to do (obviously) is max out all your skills. Rank both puppets for 190 max and control marionette for 55 max. Maxing damage means "maxing" APM too, so you'll need both Crisis and Climactic at rank 1 so you can pull off the godly combo of 6->7 (It's basically not viable before at least rank 1 act 7, but preferably both skills). Having something on standby in case you lag after crisis, such as a rank 1 act 4 or an aoe pet, is also an good idea. It doesn't matter how much damage you can do if you can't actually pull off your combos.

    Base stats is a big deal for puppets. Getting 500 str or dex adds 1k to your normal, non-crit act 7 damage. Look at doing some life skills like Refining, Handicraft, Tailoring, Weaving, and others that give a lot of dex/ap. Don't worry about Blacksmithing and Enchant unless you have the time/money for them.

    The next biggest thing is your control bar. Normal control bars have an artisan of up to +25 puppet max, while Demonic Bars have an artisan of up to +30 puppet max. Make sure that you get as close as possible to the maximum, with reroll kits if you're making good bars like jewelled or demonic. You also want to have Carved Colossus as the enchants on your control bars. Carved adds 20 puppet max and Colossus adds 10-15 puppet max and 30 strength (Which is another 6 puppet max).

    Finally, you want to start looking at the other puppet enchants. There's not too many of the dragon/lord ones widely available at the moment (Most are unreleased?), so your main option will be Nostalgic on everything. Nostalgic at a close to or max roll will beat out specialized enchants (Linked, Tragedy, etc), giving you 5-9 max and 6 puppet max (or just over 12 puppet max at a max roll). This also has the side advantage of increasing your control bar windmill/smash, but that's not a big deal unless you're Garrett.

    Wearing Clothes is very important as you can wear accessories with them. Your best option for accessories if you're not made of money is Nostalgic Theatrical accessories. Theatrical enchant is a rank 8 suffix just for accessories that gives 8.2 puppet max (Compared to Avenger's puppet max of 8.4). You'd be missing out on over 40 puppet damage if you didn't wear accessories with clothes.

    Tl;dr:

    In order:
    -Skills
    -Base stats
    -Control bars + enchants
    -Other enchants

    Hope i've helped!

    Rekhyt: LOL GENNY YOU'RE SWIMMING IN POVERTY

  4. #4
    Mabination User Traw was almost killed by a brown fox
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    Thanks for the indepth guide I appreciate the response
    I've finished the skills my stats do add up to 1k(not much more)
    my enchants are basic nothing special but it's not like fox on everything (ex. Oblivion)
    I'm missing out on control bar max enchants so ill get to work in that
    Also the very best was a joke

    On a side note since I don't want to make a new thread about how much gold would I need for tailoring rF-r1? With and without destiny
    Last edited by Traw; 07-20-2013 at 03:53 AM.

  5. #5
    Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gensokyou View Post
    I wish you good luck with that O_O

    First of all, puppets are focused around mob control. Your first priority is to try and tie everything up so that everything's not owning up your party members unless you know you can one/two hit the room with act 7.

    That said, it's important to not get in the way of your party members too.

    I'd like to stress that because unless you can kill elite mobs with your non-crit crisis/act 4, you're going to need to work in with people and a little bit of teamwork and consideration with puppets can go a long way.
    This is perhaps the most stressful part of Puppeteering. Its not a very good talent that synergizes with other talents, including another Puppeteer, and vise versa. You may be interrupting their attacks, and they may be interrupting yours. For example:
    -You attempt Act 2: Threshold Cutter and someone smashes, firebolts, magnum shots, whatever-to-knock-back-the-target. You will rage because the rest of the hits will miss, simply put they interrupted your skill.
    -A Warrior uses Windmill before you can attempt Act 6: Crisis. You will rage because the Warrior pushed everything out of your range.
    -An Archer fires Crash Shot and you use Act 6: Crisis right after. They will rage because the monsters are briefly invincible and therefore the arrow doesn't have a target, simply put you just interrupted it.
    -Puppeteer competition for Act 6: Crisis.

    You need to learn cooperating tactics and then get your teammates to agree on them. For example:
    -Tell them you want to use Act 6: Crisis FIRST then a Warrior Windmills or an Archer Crash Shots.
    -Tell them you're going to use Puppet's Snare against the Blinker FIRST so it doesn't fly up, and then have everyone else kill it while its bound.


    Skill Priority: Colossus, Pierrot, Control (rank simultaneously with others because it is a bitch), Act 7: Climactic Crash, Act 4: Rising Action, Act 6: Crisis, Act 2: Threshold Cutter, Act 1: Inciting Incident, Puppet's Snare/Wire Pull, Act 9: Invigorating Encore.

    You can rank most of them simultaneously, but Colossus has the highest priority because Pierrot's Act 2 is too slow. Control is what empowers your marionette, but unfortunately the cooldown reduction is glitched. Act 7 is your strongest puppeteer AoE skill, followed by Act 4. Or, use Act 6 to pull them in before Act 4 then 7. Act 2 is just 1:1 and you won't really do that, same with Act 1. You won't really use Puppet's Snare nor Wire Pull very often. Act 9 holds the least priority because its just a crappy damage and skill loading speed buff that takes very long to build up, though if you do intend to rank it, do it simultaneously with the other skills because it too is a big fat bitch.


    One last thing: http://mabination.com/threads/66963-...ings-attached!

  6. #6
    Armaments Wasbewwi has saved the goddess
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    ^Puppeteers make me sad(fighter). It's also sad when melee + fighter. It just doesn't work out. When someone smashes my mob, I cry because I know my damage will be cancelled out. At least alchemists can flame burst once a puppeteer crisis-es in NPC Arena.

  7. #7
    Victorique Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traw View Post
    Thanks for the indepth guide I appreciate the response
    I've finished the skills my stats do add up to 1k(not much more)
    my enchants are basic nothing special but it's not like fox on everything (ex. Oblivion)
    I'm missing out on control bar max enchants so ill get to work in that
    Also the very best was a joke
    Unless you have stuff that gives you quite a lot of max (Say, fierce ribbons or something like that) You'll notice the difference from +puppet enchants even compared to the most powerful +max enchants. To be a little cryptic, that 0.7 multiplier makes a big difference, but it doesn't.

    On a side note since I don't want to make a new thread about how much gold would I need for tailoring rF-r1? With and without destiny
    That would depend on the price of leathers, etc in your server. A fair bit though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkboy132 View Post
    This is perhaps the most stressful part of Puppeteering. Its not a very good talent that synergizes with other talents, including another Puppeteer, and vise versa. You may be interrupting their attacks, and they may be interrupting yours. For example:
    -You attempt Act 2: Threshold Cutter and someone smashes, firebolts, magnum shots, whatever-to-knock-back-the-target. You will rage because the rest of the hits will miss, simply put they interrupted your skill.
    -A Warrior uses Windmill before you can attempt Act 6: Crisis. You will rage because the Warrior pushed everything out of your range.
    -An Archer fires Crash Shot and you use Act 6: Crisis right after. They will rage because the monsters are briefly invincible and therefore the arrow doesn't have a target, simply put you just interrupted it.
    -Puppeteer competition for Act 6: Crisis.
    This is why you should avoid running with randoms. In fact, no matter what skillset you use you should avoid running with randoms. Seems kinda harsh, but it's the truth :o

    You need to learn cooperating tactics and then get your teammates to agree on them. For example:
    -Tell them you want to use Act 6: Crisis FIRST then a Warrior Windmills or an Archer Crash Shots.
    -Tell them you're going to use Puppet's Snare against the Blinker FIRST so it doesn't fly up, and then have everyone else kill it while its bound.
    This.

    Puppet has a lot of team synergy, just not when it's used carelessly. The same goes for other skillsets - Fighter and ranged, for example. You can't use the example of magnum screwing up people's chain skills. Mag spam on a pummeled target works really well, and support shot can provide up to or over double damage for chain 2/3s. It all depends on how you use the skills in a team situation.


    Skill Priority: Colossus, Pierrot, Control (rank simultaneously with others because it is a bitch), Act 7: Climactic Crash, Act 4: Rising Action, Act 6: Crisis, Act 2: Threshold Cutter, Act 1: Inciting Incident, Puppet's Snare/Wire Pull, Act 9: Invigorating Encore.
    I'd have to disagree on that account.

    Control is your first priority as it's the hardest skill to rank. Don't put active focus on ranking it unless it's close to being able to rank, but it should always be your first priority.

    Next should be both your marionettes. Both. You should not choose one over the other. You will be needing both and swapping between both to manage aggro and help reset cooldowns using the control marionette bonus.

    After that should be Act 7 and Act 6. I see no reason why you would need to rank Act 4 before Act 6 considering Act 6 is basically your mob control skill and Act 4 isn't very conductive to party play (6.5m of windmill cockblocking goodness 8D). Puppets don't work the same as melee in the sense that it's spin to win.

    Act 4 then, then acts 2 and 1 with roughly the same priority (They have good utility). Rank Act 9 when you can after ranking act 4, since it takes a bit of passive training just like control.

    Unless you have a very specific strategy in mind (Say, you spam GoP all day and do nothing but snare blinkers) the wire skills should be last. They're ~150 ap and don't give very many stats, and also don't have great uses and damage.

    You can rank most of them simultaneously, but Colossus has the highest priority because Pierrot's Act 2 is too slow. Control is what empowers your marionette, but unfortunately the cooldown reduction is glitched. Act 7 is your strongest puppeteer AoE skill, followed by Act 4. Or, use Act 6 to pull them in before Act 4 then 7. Act 2 is just 1:1 and you won't really do that, same with Act 1. You won't really use Puppet's Snare nor Wire Pull very often. Act 9 holds the least priority because its just a crappy damage and skill loading speed buff that takes very long to build up, though if you do intend to rank it, do it simultaneously with the other skills because it too is a big fat bitch.
    Again, i'd have to disagree there. Unless you've got all the AP stored up, ranking them all simultaneously is a bad idea. Ranking your marionettes and acts 6 and 7 take priority over the wire skills, acts 1, 2 and 4 if you're starved for AP.

    Colossus's Act 2 animation isn't much justification for ranking it before pierrot, but it's justification for having your colossus as your main puppet. You will need to switch between puppets to help manage aggro and the cooldowns, as I said before.

    Control marionette's cooldown is glitched in that it doesn't apply unless you desummon and resummon your puppets. It can be pretty beneficial if done right since it reminds you to swap your puppets for aggro management since you want that cooldown reduction. Crisis then act 7 then desummon? Everything's sitting there like a stunned mullet till you move.

    Act 2 is useful for filler if you're really desperate. Act 1 is a powerful utility move, I can't count how many times i've saved myself or party members just from it slingshotting my puppet across the room @ 300 km/hr.

    Rekhyt: LOL GENNY YOU'RE SWIMMING IN POVERTY

  8. #8
    Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132's Avatar
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    Thank you for filling it up for me, but I noticed you didn't go in-depth with Act 9, why?

    Some people like to do 6 -> 4 -> 7 in that order, since the monsters just bounce in place after attacking with 6. After using 4, switch to the other marionette (in case they block it), and use 7. Act 4 does have higher priority than 2 and 1 which is why I lumped it in with 7 and 6.

    You can't really rank Control Marionette more actively than the other skills, in fact you can't really rank all of them in an active pace when they reach the number ranks because their training requirements are really really massive, repetitive and demanding. However, don't let that discourage you from Puppeteer; I gain 221~356 damage from 443 str, 548 dex, and 19-61 damage jeweled control bars, no enchants whatsoever (besides Stiff which ironically hampers my damage by decreasing dex by 10) and I can hit nearly 5k on Elite Mobs with Act 7.

  9. #9
    Victorique Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou is a Nation Alchemist Gensokyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkboy132 View Post
    Thank you for filling it up for me, but I noticed you didn't go in-depth with Act 9, why?
    You pretty much covered it here:

    Act 9 holds the least priority because its just a crappy damage and skill loading speed buff that takes very long to build up, though if you do intend to rank it, do it simultaneously with the other skills because it too is a big fat bitch.
    So I didn't intend to go back over it. :p

    It does give a nice amount of +max for use before, say, an offering circle (or in the mission of the same name), and it gives quite a lot of talent exp and good stats so it's worth ranking if you can spare the AP.

    Some people like to do 6 -> 4 -> 7 in that order, since the monsters just bounce in place after attacking with 6. After using 4, switch to the other marionette (in case they block it), and use 7. Act 4 does have higher priority than 2 and 1 which is why I lumped it in with 7 and 6.
    Indeed, I do that if i'm lagging. I do find that that's a bit overkill though, plus I don't always get all the mobs in crisis>act 7 so I like having act 4 afterwards for self-defence.

    Perhaps that's just me though. I wouldn't put Act 4 above either act 6 or 7 by far.

    You can't really rank Control Marionette more actively than the other skills, in fact you can't really rank all of them in an active pace when they reach the number ranks because their training requirements are really really massive, repetitive and demanding. However, don't let that discourage you from Puppeteer; I gain 221~356 damage from 443 str, 548 dex, and 19-61 damage jeweled control bars, no enchants whatsoever (besides Stiff which ironically hampers my damage by decreasing dex by 10) and I can hit nearly 5k on Elite Mobs with Act 7.
    I'm not calling you out on this, but I don't understand something:



    +GM Bard 33% overture from Marvellous performance.

    And that's a mongoose.

     gear


    So I honestly have no idea how. O_O

    Rekhyt: LOL GENNY YOU'RE SWIMMING IN POVERTY

  10. #10
    Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132 the dragon knight Darkboy132's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gensokyou View Post
    I'm not calling you out on this, but I don't understand something:



    +GM Bard 33% overture from Marvellous performance.

    And that's a mongoose.

     gear


    So I honestly have no idea how. O_O
    Forgot to say crit, sorry. >.<

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