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Thread: Some data on firebolt damage

  1. #1
    Mabination User kuronogami the noob elemental master kuronogami's Avatar
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    Some data on firebolt damage

    Mainly for the lulz but figured it might be interested in including.

    Covering some light basics of things here is the basic stats for each different test

    Magic Attack titles
    389~513 Max Damage
    448 Magic Attack
    140 Critical
    80% Balance
    +2% bolt damage

    Max Damage Titles
    389~539 Max Damage
    366 Magic Attack
    145 Critical
    80% Balance

    I tested 100 fire bolts in total. This is the result of the average damage (as calculated by excel, so any math issues can be attributed to that)

    *The following includes criticals
    Average damage w/ Magic Attack titles : 9345.6633663366

    Average damage w/ Max Attack titles : 8593.9504950495

    The difference of damage between the two : 751.7128712871

    *The following excludes criticals, additional note; I did not do 100 fire bolts that were none critical. I simply removed all critical from both 100 sets
    Average damage w/ Magic Attack titles : 6416.1388888889

    Average damage w/ Max Attack titles : 5837.8591549296

    The difference of damage between the two : 578.2797339593

    raw data
    Last edited by kuronogami; 06-07-2016 at 10:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Mabination User kuronogami the noob elemental master kuronogami's Avatar
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    A little bit of extra for fun

    BFO is at 30.80%. Mainly added this part to see difference in crits w/ certain buffs. This time I used my firewand ego (which is not as good as my tribolt currently)

    Crit w/o buffs ;

    Crit w/ bfo only ;

    Crit w/ bone chip ;

    Crit w/ bfo & bone chip ;

  3. #3
    Lukshad the golem slayer Lukshad's Avatar
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    Cool, I always knew max attack contributed to Fire bolt's damage, but I like seeing this. What's the ratio again? Like 1 max equals 1 magic attack fore firebolt? I know it gets more from max than most spells

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    Something worth pointing out: it's not just titles that affect your damage. Also for titles, probably best to keep it consistent, and what I mean is use the best for both categories. Undoubtedly Meteor Strike Master ALO Asuna is the best for MA, but for max, to get the "best" max damage set up, you would be using Master of Shock title (if not Girg slayer title) with the freebie suffix (merlin if you wanted extra MA at the cost of music buff) that would get you total of 35 max, you only have 22 in your test. In another note, strength bonus won't count for the extra firebolt damage.

    You also have to consider what you're wearing, the enchant bonuses you get from your gears, because from what I'm seeing, more invested firebolt users with full max damage gears shouldn't be seeing average damage difference that big. I'll use myself as an example. Nostalgic Dex Lang Circlet with 8 MA, dual Oblivion Avenger accs, Encore Heroic clothing, Solo camo shoes and Solo Backbreaking gloves. With Limit Breaker Merlin title (my MA combo title for now), 34.80 BFO, I'm getting 8k average firebolts, and 7.8-7.9k with Girgashiy Slayer with freebie title, 35.20 BFO. No bone chips were involved and Celtic Tribolt R6 was used. The more bonus from max damage you get, the smaller gap the MA title and max damage title will give.

  5. #5
    Mabination User kuronogami the noob elemental master kuronogami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironwoman View Post
    Something worth pointing out: it's not just titles that affect your damage. Also for titles, probably best to keep it consistent, and what I mean is use the best for both categories. Undoubtedly Meteor Strike Master ALO Asuna is the best for MA, but for max, to get the "best" max damage set up, you would be using Master of Shock title (if not Girg slayer title) with the freebie suffix (merlin if you wanted extra MA at the cost of music buff) that would get you total of 35 max, you only have 22 in your test. In another note, strength bonus won't count for the extra firebolt damage.

    You also have to consider what you're wearing, the enchant bonuses you get from your gears, because from what I'm seeing, more invested firebolt users with full max damage gears shouldn't be seeing average damage difference that big. I'll use myself as an example. Nostalgic Dex Lang Circlet with 8 MA, dual Oblivion Avenger accs, Encore Heroic clothing, Solo camo shoes and Solo Backbreaking gloves. With Limit Breaker Merlin title (my MA combo title for now), 34.80 BFO, I'm getting 8k average firebolts, and 7.8-7.9k with Girgashiy Slayer with freebie title, 35.20 BFO. No bone chips were involved and Celtic Tribolt R6 was used. The more bonus from max damage you get, the smaller gap the MA title and max damage title will give.
    I made sure stuff was done with no gear or firebolt modifiers. I know the titles for max aren't the best but they're what I have and is pretty much what I see a lot of people using. to be a bit "fair" towards the max titles 8th anni also gives magi craft which could "compensate" a bit for mixing max from blood master. My idea was to try and test pure max vs pure magic attack but as you said without shock master there is a bit of a taint going on.

    It's not perfect but the idea was whether or not I could see a noticeable difference. Between the two. Say I wanted to do a run with magic but wanted damage if final hit is also needed I can refer back here to see the sacrifice being made.

    Actual difference is relative though.
    Last edited by kuronogami; 06-11-2016 at 08:28 PM.

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    The problem is though, people won't be firebolting with no gear.

    In this case, of course the difference is big as you wrote it here. Firebolt without enchanted gear is heavily influenced by other MA sources (titles, weapons, etc) since you won't be getting bonus from enchants. When enchants come into play however, the skill suddenly isn't very relevant with MA (except the title since it has such a huge boost). Point is, you used unfair conditions for testing, and something to be considered next time.

  7. #7
    Probably not a bot Eos the savior of Erinn Eos the savior of Erinn Eos the savior of Erinn
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironwoman View Post
    The problem is though, people won't be firebolting with no gear.
    I pretty much do. Have never bothered with enchanting anything so I wander around in newbie gear half the time.
    Warning: The content of this post may express beliefs and opinions that differ from your own, or facts you do not find flattering or favorable. If you have a history of adverse reactions to any of these things please consult your physician before attempting to digest. Chronic sufferers are encouraged to stock up on suppositories and grow thicker skin.

  8. #8
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    My gear is enchanted for some small amounts of max damage and some minor stuff like crit/luck and buff effects. Vine/Dex helmet, Special/Imp armor, Solo/- Shoes. The helmet was bought, has charge without shield reforge so I'm not risking dur to overwrite Vine, and I just don't have anything I want to put on the shoes.

    And I generally find that when I resort to CC firebolt (with the MP and dur usage it's something I don't pull out every day), the stuff is going to die anyways because at 1K+ int and 340+ MA with my CC wand on, I'm dealing like 5K normals and 14K crits. With Vivace that's some crazy DPS with simple tactics.

    I mean if I were to try to solo Alban Heroic or whatever I'd probably need better gear, but I'm not that masochistic.

  9. #9
    King of Ruin koishi-sempai has tamed a desert dragon koishi-sempai has tamed a desert dragon koishi-sempai has tamed a desert dragon koishi-sempai has tamed a desert dragon koishi-sempai has tamed a desert dragon koishi-sempai has tamed a desert dragon koishi-sempai has tamed a desert dragon koishi-sempai's Avatar
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    Somewhat relevant:

    Code:
    Dakimakurin - Today at 4:42 PM
    have they fixed the huge trans bug?
    that wm range is ridiculous
    thank you based mabidata http://puu.sh/pzPPn/cd3c16dc40.png
    
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:15 PM
    reversing firebolt's damage formula is so boring
    Daeran - Today at 6:37 PM
    lol
    i mean i did all this like 3 years ago, i wish i still had my calcs
    though i think back then i was calcing the bolt bonuses wrong
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:43 PM
    I'm just wondering where damage enchants get applied, everything else is right, but adding in str and max damage is messing it up
    Daeran - Today at 6:43 PM
    so
    basically
    from what i gather
    ego wand max gets added directly to firebolt base damage
    so if your ego is 115 max
    your firebolts are 235 base
    that's how i presume it works at this time based on my calculations and talks from long ago
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:44 PM
    yes, that's right
    Daeran - Today at 6:45 PM
    enchants
    are added to firebolt base damage
    at about .4 ratio
    so basically the (base damage + [matk * .5]) would add that ratio
    so (base damage + [matk * .5] + [bonus enchant max * .4]
    now
    here's the thing
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:46 PM
    and for max dmg it'd be 
    [(max dmg * bfo) * .4] or?
    Daeran - Today at 6:46 PM
    bonus enchant max includes max damage gained from battlefield overture
    so let's say you have
    1200 max with wand equipped
    you overture for 50%
    that adds 600 *.4 to bonus enchant max
    so 240 i believe
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:47 PM
    mk, thank you
    Daeran - Today at 6:47 PM
    trying to figure out how chips figure in too
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:48 PM
    it's bfo+chip
    Daeran - Today at 6:48 PM
    i though chip was 1.2
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:48 PM
    it's (1+bfo+chip)
    Daeran - Today at 6:48 PM
    okay gotcha
    i thought it was a seperate multiplier
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:49 PM
    nah, they're both in that part of the buff for applicable skills
    Daeran - Today at 6:49 PM
    devcat i think intentionally tries not to have too many straight multiplicative damage sources in order to keep things from getting too crazy
    at least since enlightenemnt
    so where we are right now is
    assuming someone sitting at 1200 max as well as with 430ish MATK (1500 int + 90 from Meteor ALO Asuna + 20 MATK + 24 from accs firebolt, bolt 20 headgear, and hebona set you're looking at (235 + (2.5 * Firebolt Reforge Level) + 240 + 215) * (1 + 1.5 + .35 + .10 + .15 + .04 + [combo card pct]) x 6.5x(edited)
    aslo i think there's a 5 base damage wand bonus in there too
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:55 PM
    yeah
    Daeran - Today at 6:56 PM
    i have 18 so we'll use mine for the sake of argument, and we'll plug in .5 for the combo car
    so (45 + 235 + 240 + 215) = 735 * (1+1.5 + .35  + .10 + .15 + .04 + .5) = 3.64
    Daeran - Today at 7:00 PM
    735 x 3.64 2675.4 x 6.5 gives you 17390.1
    crits would be 43475.25
    but idk because
    highest recorded FB damage is about 10k higher
    but then you can probably get more than 1200 max with a wand
    Dakimakurin - Today at 7:03 PM
    highest fb's are 70k-ish (which is probably a multitude of double rolled gears)
    Daeran - Today at 7:03 PM
    well you could get even more if you go MATK Firebolt but
    for practical combat cs is so much better
    triple roll is the dream though
    i'm sure someone in korea has that
    Dakimakurin - Today at 7:04 PM
    yeah, I think 80~90 is the highest for damage showoff's
    Daeran - Today at 7:04 PM
    I feel like I messed up my calc at some point...
     Signature

  10. #10
    Mabination User kuronogami the noob elemental master kuronogami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koishi-sempai View Post
    Somewhat relevant:

    Code:
    Dakimakurin - Today at 4:42 PM
    have they fixed the huge trans bug?
    that wm range is ridiculous
    thank you based mabidata http://puu.sh/pzPPn/cd3c16dc40.png
    
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:15 PM
    reversing firebolt's damage formula is so boring
    Daeran - Today at 6:37 PM
    lol
    i mean i did all this like 3 years ago, i wish i still had my calcs
    though i think back then i was calcing the bolt bonuses wrong
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:43 PM
    I'm just wondering where damage enchants get applied, everything else is right, but adding in str and max damage is messing it up
    Daeran - Today at 6:43 PM
    so
    basically
    from what i gather
    ego wand max gets added directly to firebolt base damage
    so if your ego is 115 max
    your firebolts are 235 base
    that's how i presume it works at this time based on my calculations and talks from long ago
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:44 PM
    yes, that's right
    Daeran - Today at 6:45 PM
    enchants
    are added to firebolt base damage
    at about .4 ratio
    so basically the (base damage + [matk * .5]) would add that ratio
    so (base damage + [matk * .5] + [bonus enchant max * .4]
    now
    here's the thing
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:46 PM
    and for max dmg it'd be 
    [(max dmg * bfo) * .4] or?
    Daeran - Today at 6:46 PM
    bonus enchant max includes max damage gained from battlefield overture
    so let's say you have
    1200 max with wand equipped
    you overture for 50%
    that adds 600 *.4 to bonus enchant max
    so 240 i believe
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:47 PM
    mk, thank you
    Daeran - Today at 6:47 PM
    trying to figure out how chips figure in too
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:48 PM
    it's bfo+chip
    Daeran - Today at 6:48 PM
    i though chip was 1.2
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:48 PM
    it's (1+bfo+chip)
    Daeran - Today at 6:48 PM
    okay gotcha
    i thought it was a seperate multiplier
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:49 PM
    nah, they're both in that part of the buff for applicable skills
    Daeran - Today at 6:49 PM
    devcat i think intentionally tries not to have too many straight multiplicative damage sources in order to keep things from getting too crazy
    at least since enlightenemnt
    so where we are right now is
    assuming someone sitting at 1200 max as well as with 430ish MATK (1500 int + 90 from Meteor ALO Asuna + 20 MATK + 24 from accs firebolt, bolt 20 headgear, and hebona set you're looking at (235 + (2.5 * Firebolt Reforge Level) + 240 + 215) * (1 + 1.5 + .35 + .10 + .15 + .04 + [combo card pct]) x 6.5x(edited)
    aslo i think there's a 5 base damage wand bonus in there too
    Dakimakurin - Today at 6:55 PM
    yeah
    Daeran - Today at 6:56 PM
    i have 18 so we'll use mine for the sake of argument, and we'll plug in .5 for the combo car
    so (45 + 235 + 240 + 215) = 735 * (1+1.5 + .35  + .10 + .15 + .04 + .5) = 3.64
    Daeran - Today at 7:00 PM
    735 x 3.64 2675.4 x 6.5 gives you 17390.1
    crits would be 43475.25
    but idk because
    highest recorded FB damage is about 10k higher
    but then you can probably get more than 1200 max with a wand
    Dakimakurin - Today at 7:03 PM
    highest fb's are 70k-ish (which is probably a multitude of double rolled gears)
    Daeran - Today at 7:03 PM
    well you could get even more if you go MATK Firebolt but
    for practical combat cs is so much better
    triple roll is the dream though
    i'm sure someone in korea has that
    Dakimakurin - Today at 7:04 PM
    yeah, I think 80~90 is the highest for damage showoff's
    Daeran - Today at 7:04 PM
    I feel like I messed up my calc at some point...
    I may do this at a later date but for the time being I won't be however if the goal is to purely test how much difference the max does. Have 0 max damage (0 str + hamster set) to reduce your max to 0~0 with a wand equipped but leaving your magic attack alone testing that then equipping something which gives a bit of max to see how much is added.

    It's not a hard line formula but my main point to things is to gauge the difference and how much of a difference things are. It's worth testing and I probably will when I get around to it but since my main curiosity was how much I loose out by switching to max titles (in the event that I wanted to FH) is fairly clear.

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