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Thread: Suggestion: Overall Skill Rebalance

  1. #11
    Konrad the dragon knight Konrad the dragon knight Konrad the dragon knight Konrad the dragon knight Konrad's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that most of broken OP skills that ignore mabi's basic combat mechanics just counter equally broken mobs who were there first. The real problems with this game lie very deep inside.

  2. #12
    The Red Fox Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
    Keep in mind that most of broken OP skills that ignore mabi's basic combat mechanics just counter equally broken mobs who were there first. The real problems with this game lie very deep inside.
     Small rant/reply


     Small range idea


    Binding Needle should have an effect outside of raids too, maybe make spikes last a short amount of time longer on non raid mobs?

    Same thing for Breaking Lies, though with a name like that it seems suited to just work on Gigy. How about a 1-4 increase on non raid mobs?

    I had an idea for alch that would make it sorta like a 'combo' skill set with effects that would even work with normal magic but...eh.

    As for mana crystal, I say make the crystals a 1 second charge with a cooldown of 10 seconds or something. It'd also be nice if we could make new mines using them. Ice mines changed to be stronger and allow for hitting mods with their defenses increased while frozen, fire for either a small burn over time or just a massive large range area hit, and lighting for stun for a shorter time than ice but without the increased defenses.

    I feel like Handicraft should be a 'linking' skill. That helps out with blacksmithing, tailoring, and carpentry to make them easier as well as being needed for some things you make with them. Like, and this is a lame example, you make a 'fine sand paper' and 'wood chisel' to use with carpentry to make base puppets and handles. This could then add minigames for each. Even 'finishing a bow' with the sandpaper for an extra touch up to it after you're done with the basic shapeing mini game (which should be a thing)

  3. #13
    Mabination User callback the ogre slayer callback's Avatar
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    Just some small thoughts where I disagree or have additional ideas:


    Campfire: Is good enough just as a bonus to enchant burn success. Maybe reduce it to 3 firewood needed tho, since finest burn fires can be a hassle to make.

    First Aid: Is a joke now that SoT has replaced it so handily. Maybe if sitting instead changed it to also heal health for the wound recovered. Thematically the sitting works well, just not mechanically. I'd like to keep some bonus there.

    Cooking/Catering: Bypassing stat cap for normal stats is a no, especially based around how players above a certain point prefer to ignore stats since they know they can cater to cap (too much re-gearing if it bypassed) but maybe have the HP/MP/SP count the way transformations do and bypass. the main bar is the effort/inventory, which is why everybody just uses Barry's hot chocolate. If we could cook in stacks it would help a ton. After all, it's easier to cook a massive portion of a single thing than it is to cook a single portion of a massive number of things.

    Handicraft: See mining

    Herbalism/Potion Making: Events have rendered them obsolete. We have too many massive stockpiles of 500 and 1k S-types. You would need to massively rebalance the recipes as a whole and have each craft yield multiple. Maybe add in better combo potions up to 500 instead of 50, and make new potions with unique combat effects. Right now the skill is useless outside of quick access to secret shops.

    RNG crafts: Add a UI to allocate points into the craft. Have the RNG roll give you a number of points to spend (up to 10x number of stats rolled) and a cap (between 50 and 100%). higher rank still gives higher rolls, and better minimum rolls on the cap. Now you can spend the points into each stat to distribute it as you wish, up to the cap you roll. Each point is worth 10% of whatever max roll for that item is now. The crap rolls become a bit less crappy when you can at least somewhat salvage it by allocating the points towards the desired stats, even tho you might get hit by a lower cap on them for that individual attempt. At least it's not a minimum roll.

    Gathering skills: Already fine. The speed increase they give is insane. We don't need wool quality or any of that, it's plenty just to have sheep explode all over Tir when you click them.

    Mining: Change Cuilin stones to no longer be alch, but be universal components of handicraftable repair kits. Low-grade = 90, Common = 95, fine = 97, finest = 98. Remove these from RA tasks. Other materials needed to make the kits would be appropriate difficulty materials from the related disciplines. For example, clothing repair kits would use 1 each of that quality fabric and silk, as well as a thin thread, braid, tough string, or tough thread for the 4 quality kits.

    Exploration Mastery: Seriously, enough with the paid crap. And what even is the point of the master title or treasure hunter 2nd title? Dungeons pop up nearly every explore if you DO have talent just at r1, so what bonus is it giving? Maybe have the paid talent sometimes proc to reveal the correct switch in the 2nd room, but let everyone use the dungeon always. Using perma-hunter alts to farm bullets is slow and boring. My alts are weak.

    Mirage: DOES take damage range into account. They patched that in during the renovation I think.

    Final shot: No. It's the reason Korean elf archers are OP. They can magnum spam at an insane rate for way too much DPS with this.

    Human archery: We need a new skill. something like:

    Hawk's Eye: Temporary buff skill: Adds a loading time to all archery skills, but guarantees all shots will hit. Reduces cooldowns by 2 seconds while active (magnum's load time stands in for the cooldown during the skill anyway, and avoids crash spam)

    MAYBE elf could share it too? I don't know.


    Lance counter: Maybe make it into just a passive buff to regular counter when using lances? Make counter usable with lances.

    Charge: Let humans do it without reforge or shield if they have r1

    Rage Impact: Already really good as a Girg support skill. For solo play maybe instead of stun have it do a sand burst-style aggro reset on things hit. Not stunned but won't re-aggro for a longer moment. Call it a fear status.

    Bash: Don't cut the damage. Fix double bash, and change the way the combo system works. Have the initial hits deal lower damage (325 350 375 400) but make hit 5 do MUCH more damage than the rest (800? 900?), but also force knockdown if applicable, and reset the combo. It's meant to be a high sustained DPS alternative to smash for mainly bosses. Slowing the rate of fire to single bashes and adding a knockdown to prevent infinites on tanky trash mobs does that. It's OP for the moment, but we can fit it into its intended niche instead of just nerfing it. Removing double bash already cuts the damage in half. You don't need to cut THAT in half again. Properly geared giant lance smash is already technically capable of beating bash where the piercing is relevant. Melee still need to be able to compete with other talents' boss DPS. Effectively deleting bash (as you suggest) is NOT the way to go on that.

    Heavy armor mastery: Should give humans less dex cut. Match giants.

    Gold strike does not work. It takes longer than a 15-charge sakura abyss to fully load, and for what? 10k on a CRIT? Plus it's down to RNG whether or not it even splashes, despite a tiny range when it does. Reduce load time to 0.1 seconds. Make splash chance scale up with charges used. Add a lure effect that causes mobs to drop aggro and run towards the point of impact, assassin's creed style, based on their CP versus the charges used. Now we have a real utility skill.


    Hail Storm: There was a bug at one point that made the charges load twice as fast with little down time. It was a good skill during that bug. Whatever that was, just use that as the real skill. Maybe allow it to be spellwalked at half of your spellwalk speed (still double mana over time drain so big).

    Fusion: Can't be rechargeable. Fire/ice would become as strong as chaincast fire (actually stronger considering the skill bonus plus icebolt damage added on) while allowing far stronger magic weapons as a base.

    Mana shield: Un-nerf a bit or at least fix. Setting you to 0 def/prot is a HUGE loss. It's never worth using outside of field bosses with 2k+ damage attacks. Make it a fixed def/prot penalty based on rank, maybe. Lose 100% at rank F but only 50% at rank 6? FIX OVERFLOW DAMAGE Right now, suppose you take a 100 damage attack with 1 mana left. Your defense would normally reduce that to 1 with shield off. With shield on, you take 99 to the face.

    Blaze charging never made sense. Originally you could release it and it would auto-fire at the nearest enemy. Now you have to click while holding it to fire, but you don't need to click ON anything. You CAN technically click on a mob to fire but it's hard to hold the hotkey and ctrl-target. Change it to start charging with a press instead of needing to hold, and cancel as normal with other skills. Then just let you normally ctrl target to fire.

    Spellwalk is also commonly used for chain firebolt kiting, eating the mp penalty. Master title removes the penalty but nobody uses it because meteor is so much more valuable. I think it's ok being niche. Buffing it might make it overpowered. You're free to chug S pots if you need to sustain it as-is.

    continued...
    Last edited by callback; 08-08-2016 at 04:01 PM.

  4. #14
    Mabination User callback the ogre slayer callback's Avatar
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    Frag is good, but expanding the list would be nice.

    Synth is already god for ingots, but more "fun" recipes like that would be appreciated. More reliable ways to beat RNG and get a stupid pirate suit so I can finally wear cub as a 10-year-old and share between different gender characters also appreciated. The RNG is killer, and you end up using semi-rare fished outfits as fodder because of their "value".

    Mana Crystal: It gives MP. I like MP. I ranked it for the MP. Decrease load times and you can have utility in throwing ice spears out of a guard cylinder. That would be enough.

    Rain: Don't complain about training. I r1ed it with novice water cannon with almost no effort. You just need to use finish rule. It's not hard and not that grindy.


    Golem: Fix AI with guard cyl. Yes. Maybe allow it to inherit some of the player's combat stats when directly controlling. Remove cooldowns since it still has load times.

    Elemental masteries: You forgot that they also increase ewave's "marble" bonuses to 150 stat and 10% CDR at r1.

    Life drain: Damage portion scales off missing health anyway, and is a great invincibility bypass. Increasing the healing might be ok tho.

    Hydra: It's still already the one alch skill REALLY worth using because of it's invincibility bypass and non-aggro damage. It's pure boss cheese, and in situations where you do want to fight legit the magic shred helps a ton too (especially if lightning rod is part of your boss cheese)

    Fighter: Needs more damage as a whole.

    Tumble: should be useable out of hitstun and briefly drop aggro, to give it a real use and give fighter a bit more reliability if they end up multi-aggroed.

    Chain Mastery: I was the opposite. Everything else F and chain mastery 1. It gives buttloads of will for cheap AP.

    As for buffs, I like bob's idea. Fighter is meant to be the safe reliable 1v1. Give chain mastery a ping bypass stat.

    SSK: No. Do not nerf. Buff. Make daze guaranteed at r1. It's our only saving grace against the terror or Master Lich. Leave our Master Lich destroyer alone.

    Pummel: The slow beatdown is really good when it applies since the enemy is immobile and allies can freely damage it. It's fine for that. Maybe add a standing version for mobs that are immune to the knockdown with iframes for the player doing it.

    FF: But muh falcon paunch...

    Respite: Buff to percentile SP good. Timing restriction nah. Keep the debuff but change it to MP-only, and drain half of your remaining instead of 10% max. If you're on a Merlin or something you're typically meditating or something sacrificing stamina for MP, so getting back such a large amount of stamina but continuing magic should cost. Inspire afterwards if you need, but you can't spend it on both stamina and magic at the same time. You will need to pot eventually for one of the stats.

    Music: Ensemble should copy the leader's success. Easier syncing, leader is free to use r1 scores since they will likely also have r1 playing.

    Composing: Add a master title that allows even higher character caps, or even a nearly-unlimited character cap but a limited duration (2-3 minutes) so you can write short but complex songs.

    Bring back Barry's scores as default magic music effects. I want BTCiSP back, dammit!

    Dischord: Maybe make the slow last a little bit longer? As you said, it's effective, but not something you normally would use. If the initial stun could hit through AHS it would be nice alban CC against cobwebs.

    Lulla: Only if the after-immunity is not permanent. Have it grant a 1 minute immunity buff to mobs instead of being 1 and done forever. Then reduced duration, sure, why not?

    All buffs: Extend duration a ton. There's no reason to need to reapply so often. Having it as a 10 minute buff doesn't hurt anything, it's just convenience and we should have it. Either that or make Tuan actually extend it on cast instead of whatever weird "must be out at whatever invisible time it would have expired normally" crap it is. It's hard to manage and confusing and I end up wasting summon time and I haven't ranked link so I don't want him out in combat and sometimes I need my pegasus anyway because spider poison is annoying...

    Enthrall: Needs more duration. Also needs slightly slower stamina drain. Maybe infinite duration capped by your max stamina? Let it work on passive NPC animals too. I want to play Bremen's Mask theme throughout town with an army of chickens!

    Encore: Needs to give stats per rank. It's a huge drawback currently, making it tied with taming as worst skill. Maybe if it guaranteed a haunting on your next play too.

    You skipped chorus. The regen is ok for mp/sp. I'd like it to allow stacking different song buffs while inside like BFO + vivace, if possible.

    Crisis and smash. Definitely remove enemy iframes.

    Snare: Giving it AoE around the target is good. Like a long ranged puppet shadow bind, tho shadow bind allows you to act, just not to move.

    Don't nerf shooting rush. If you buff bullet storm enough things will balance out. It's already really dangerous since it pulls aggro from everything hit, and it keeps gunner with the combat "flow" it needs.

    Grapple: Actually good. It breaks through counter since it counts as ranged damage, giving you a free flash launcher against them. The end hit DOES stun well. You are right you can't use it aggressively, but that's just combat. Normal attack beats grapple, grapple beats counter. Maybe give it defense piercing too in case you're too far for a flash launch? That's all I can think of. Right now it's counter counter.


    WotG: Mostly it's a final hit so the skill cooldown buff doesn't add much. Infinite ammo does let you storm more things if it's AoE, but that goes into storm buffs (quicker recovery, shorter animation on large groups instead of 1 at a time)

    Ninja: Just give it all the KR buffs (including R-type upgrade buff) and we're good.

    Pot lore: Yeah, a buff like Thursday(?) would be good. The poisoning reduction is... a thing? I have so many event S-types I don't every worry about poison while chugging.

    Spider shot: Re-bug it to work with shuriken again. That was fun.

    Doppel: It does scale. Like alchemy. With stamina. It's a very low scaling. It needs much higher scaling.

    Berserk: What if it granted full knockdown immunity (instead of just 100% ping) and immunity to death while up? Just keep pinging and pinging into deadly, never knockdown until it's over? It adds a desperation use to the skill and some cool scenarios with it. I do like it as max instead of str tho.

    Also no, gun doesn't get half use since it drops your int to 0.

    Shockwave: funny you should mention high stats should not have downsides. Health has always been nothing BUT a downside. Max deadly is half your max health. The more you have the more you need to recover from those 2k+ boss hits. If you had only 50 HP, you can take ANY hit in the game, go deadly, 100 pot, and be full again ready to take another hit. Deadly should have a fixed max of -100 HP.

    On to shockwave, just change it from 10% max to 10% current, and add a significant current mana scaling to it.

    C-Spike: Make it bypass def/prot and invuln. Instant good skill even with the fixed nature.

    Binding Needle: Don't buff it. You forget that it stacks 5 times with multiple bladers in the party.
    Last edited by callback; 08-08-2016 at 04:07 PM.

  5. #15
    Mabination User Infighter has just left the soul stream Infighter's Avatar
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    Life skills:

    To most of the production skills

    Having an -entrust to others- option would be nice to have for production services.

    Tailoring and Blacksmithing (and maybe engineering/magic crafts since those also have armor crafting):

    Instead of releasing clothing, armors, wigs, etc 'ready to wear' from gachapon, turn all those clothing/amors into sewing patterns/blueprints/crafting recipe coupons. Therefore people would benefit by crafting materials for training the respective skills. tailoring or other productions would be useful again instead of just ranking those skills just for the stats.

    Engineering & Magic Crafts

    I don't think Engineering or Magic craft needs training amount fixed, I think it gives a bit of a challenge and satisfaction when reaching the r1. However I think they should make it that the higher the rank, the less materials you use to craft something so then you can produce more with less waste of materials.

    ex. if an item requires like 10 intacts 5 mysterious herb powders at the rank you start making them, the higher ranks should cut the amount required by 10% 25% or 30%, etc. so then you end up using 5 intacts and 2 powders instead and have more materials to craft even more.

    As for the RNG rolls. I think title should make the rolls get buffed more to have more consistent chances of better rolls as well 'raise the minimum rolls cap'. Since all that grind for master title just for a minimum chances of rolls is quite lame.

    Handcrafts

    I can't stand how poorly organized the list is, it makes it hard to look for the item I want to craft even more when I used to train it. Also increase the variety of items craftables at higher ranks that could be useful. Possible higher rank items could be control bars of all kinds, dream catchers and such.

    Give it easier item browsing list, give it a chance to make higher quality items (yes, since there are some equipable items like fishing rods, control bars I think there should be something that increases their durability and damage)

    Herbalism

    Make poison, mandrake and gold herb patches on random fields on certain days, during certain times in a mabi day. Or at least farily available in their current locations.

    Potion making

    get rid of 30s and 50s potions and let the 100s and 300s substitute those. Add the 500s and 1k variation to the potion making list so players with 1k hp/mp/stam or above can benefit from potions instead of mass smashing the 100 and 300 potions which oftenly leads to potion poisoning.

    Taming wild animals

    Have this skill have relevant stats per rank so it makes it worthier of ranking. Possible stats could be will+str, luck+will or luck+hp. Also this skill would need better AI controling, desummon option, etc. Else this skill could be used to summon the monsters you have collected from transformation mastery which could aid in some way the lack of interest in this skill.

    Transformation Mastery

    Being able to use the monster's magic/archery skills but obviously by having your own ranked skills respectively.

    Metallurgy

    Give better gem sizes.

    Carpentry

    Make high quality carpentry be less dependant of this RNGesus non-sense with a minigame?

    Exploration Mastery

    Allow people who has earned the 'Treasure hunter' hero talent title to gain access to this dungeon.

    Honestly, I don't think people who just have Exploration mastery or even higher ranked skill deserves to gain access to the dungeon just yet until they unlock Treasure Hunter hidden title by obtaining master on all the relevant talents tied to it or the typical way as rebirthing into a Treasure Hunter hero talent.

    Title should give more chances to see the hints marks in the map and/or extend the time the hints blinking can be seen by +0.5secs

    Commerce Mastery

    Able to unload every item at once and still obtain each training point per X,XXX ducats instead of 1 by 1.

    Artifact Investigation

    Honestly I use artifact investigation frequently and this is what i think it should be added to it.
    Expanding the artifact item list even further to be able to find new artifacts as well chances of finding rarer artifacts worth even more exploration and gold. Adding more exploration books with up-to-date rewards, rare enchants, patterns, recipes, materials, etc. Make Artifact to be actually worth but in exploration exp, gold, rewards. EVERYTHING.

    Title should be made to allow cooldown bypass by 20%, free appraise/restore, higher the appraised value, exploration, gold and chances to restore artifacts.

    Cleric:

    Magic shields

    These should be a buff rather than a standstill and the closer you are from other players, the strongers the shields become by a certain %. It could be good to survive end game monster damage when everyone gets closer to each other.

    Construct alchemy

    All alchemy production skills

    Adding an 'entrust to others' option so people can ask for a service.

    Synthesis and Fragmentation

    These should have a proper production-like list to see available recipes even more needed in synthesis. Synthesis also needs auto-production as dragging items 1 by 1 over and over becomes really boring.

    Also adding newer recipes for synthesis as well a complete of fragment-able items list including those items made with Hillwen Engineering and Magic Crafting to recover those hard to farm materials and making these skills easier to rank.

    At higher rank Synthesis it should require less items or less gold value items to make a fixed recipe item or random item respectively.

    At higher level fragmentation, the minimum amount cap of fragmented materials should be increased at higher ranks allowing consistent amount range of materials obtained. Ex. instead of the range being 0-10, it becomes 50% of the max range, so instead of 0~10 it will be 5~10 at rank 1.

    Metal conversion

    Making more out of unknown ores, increasing the amount of items obtained from a successful minigame and higher chances of gems.

    Summon Golem

    Obtaining stats from this skill to make it worth it. ex. hp+str, hp+protection.
    AI similar to the real golems or at least intuitive AIs that can take care of its own.
    Being able to heal a summoned golem, buff them or use potions on them.
    Make their skills go r1, cough windmill
    a bit of stats, mostly on protection.

    Barrier spikes

    Skill able to give stats per skill rank. hp+defense or hp+stam (up to 5)
    Higher protection, higher hp, higher damage if it gets 1koed by a monster
    Being able to choose how many barriers will be summoned as well the shape of them (circular, square,line, triangle, parallel, or just customized by used.

    Battle alchemy:

    Sandburst

    Adding stats per rank. will+dex or will+luck maybe?
    Adding additional damage (magic or attack) to a monster that has been blinded.
    Being able to splash it if there are more monsters in front of you.

    Wind Blast

    being able to splash-knockback monsters with this skill

    Hydra transmutation

    Increase the range at higher ranks
    Unable to break the Barrier Spikes created by a person.
    Slowing the monsters a bit so they don't run out of range too fast.

    Dual guns:

    Flash launcher
    Mini-invincible frames the moment you kick a monster so another monster don't cancel your skill right at that moment.

    Bullet Slide
    Make it a knockback splash-ish? so once you're on shooting rush or bullet storm cooldown you can use something something that can extend your life while smashing the shooting rush button to get rid of the 15+ monsters you've aggroed before.
    Getting a bit more knockback range and faster animation to escape the monster you're facing.

    Bullet Storm

    Fix the red arrow and displacement bugs
    A bit more range/radius to it to use it efficiently
    and a 12 second cooldown instead of 15 to have a better combat flow after 2 shooting rushes or so since after shooting rush there needs to be a skill that manage the mobs that were provoked more available.

    Shooting Rush
    Fix the red arrow and displacement bugs
    having a mini stun after landing so there is an opportunity to run away from the huge amount of mobs aggroing the user while he/she either tries to reload, use a shooting rush/bullet slide/grapple or sit the for the rip.

    Grapple shot

    Increase the grappling range as well as if the monster moves, you get carried with it.
    Fix the movement bug that leaves mid-way leaving a huge gap between the monster you grappled and you so the usual combo (Flash Launched) can't be performed as intended.
    Auto-defense frames to avoid the the skills to interrupt the skills so often because that's one of the reasons people rarely use it, a rock hits you and it cancels your Grappling.
    A bit more stun once it successfully damages the enemy so it gives the player time to land the flash launcher since usually the monster reacts sooner and the combo is broken by its hit.
    Give a debuff to a grappled monster to it can be used often for debuff purposes as well. Like a damage increase? slowing the monster? defense reduction?

    Reload
    Enable continuous reloading even when hit by a monster, but cancel it when knocked back.
    or
    Give a small chance to insta-reload while attempting to reload while being hit by a monster. (sorta similar to shockwave)
    Last edited by Infighter; 08-10-2016 at 05:49 AM.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    Gathering skills: higher ranks should provide bonuses/rewards/more items to scale with the crafting counter parts.
    They need incentive to rank in general. Technically a rank F and a master Sheep Shearer produce the exact same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    Fishing: Mini game needs to scale harder and have less RNG; skilled fishermen should have higher chances of getting rare items/books while afking fishing is still RNG like it is right now.
    So AFK fighing would bring in the usual stuff like fish and junk while actively fishing would have higher chances of like... materials and stuff?

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    Trans mastery: it's "fun" but why doesn't it allow players to access skills the monster and player both have? Slap some damage onto it or make dream catchers special upgradeable and this could actually be a decent offensive skill?
    I don't think it was intended for serious combat to begin with, more of a collection type of mini-goal thing. There are stat boosts while transformed, I get like 64 more STR when I turn into a turtle, but I don't know to make the skill potentially more damaging or if it's even intended as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    Hailstorm: y u no spellwalk-able and slow? It'd actually be a decent kiting skill on alban mummies.
    Was debating on spellwalk for this, but I figured being rooted wouldn't be bad if you could hit stuff further and charge fast enough to manage aggro.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    Battle Alchemy: some skills needs to scale and chain cylinder cd needs to go the hell down.
    Waiting on a response for the battle alch thing for an actual suggestion. As far as Chain Cylinder, would rapid-firing the skills it works on be OP? The comparison, magic, can get wand upgrades to permanently chaincast one element at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    Fighter: useless late game, needs defense mechanism against pings since getting pinged on first chain skill renders you useless.
    I think the first is a matter of the number of Will sources in the game. The second, however... perhaps Counter Punch could be the single Fighter skill that ignores pings, allowing one chain to fire? Would allow fighters to do something against the enemies at least, instead of being totally locked out of their skills... while still making enemies who ping melee more annoying to take out with melee than with other skillsets.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    while sakura abyss needs cd lowered for a skill that requires so much set up.
    I think faster charging would be better. It currently takes 5 seconds at rank F, but 15 seconds at rank 1 to charge the skill. 15 seconds is way too long to expect enemies to stand around not hitting you without relying on broken CC (Lullaby) or a coordinated effort by other players to do nothing but CC. As far as the cooldown, I think it's good for the amount of damage this skill can do (the listed damage is per attack and there's 5 attacks).

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    Spidershot: is the trap requirement even needed? Nobody even uses this skill lol.
    I'd totally use it... if the traps weren't 1K per shot. Instantly locking down an enemy (no aim time) for up to 10 seconds at a distance can have lots of uses both for party play and solo. Not to mention the crit damage increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    Magic dampening: should just be mprot/def+ a small % magic damage reduction if it is to be used for what i think they want us to use it for.
    That's what Magic Protection does, it just needs to be a stronger benefit to go on top of what players have from base stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    Berserk: should get bonus max/min that scales off your str. Flat str is kinda useless end game.
    How would that scaling work? Would it be different for the different semi-melee skillsets?

    [qupte="bob"]spike sub skills exist???[/quote]They seem to have thought the AOE effects on spike would be more usable than they are now. Wouldn't be as bad if spike wasn't fixed damage and the AOE damage wasn't totally pathetic amounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    p.s. charge minimum distance reforge exists.
    Reforges are not considered here due to their inherently paid nature... and how much work it would be to balance them properly (especially across skillsets with different damage formula).







    Quote Originally Posted by honey
    "The art of getting peanut butter in somebody's chocolate."








    Quote Originally Posted by Tropa
    Like how would I rewrite the damage formulas?
    I mean like, how should the changes be worded in the suggestion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tropa
    I'd like Golden Time to decrease Chain's cooldown while active, that'd make the Golden Time title pretty sick.
    Not bad, added.







    Quote Originally Posted by Konrad
    Keep in mind that most of broken OP skills that ignore mabi's basic combat mechanics just counter equally broken mobs who were there first. The real problems with this game lie very deep inside.
    Stuff like Cessair and Master Lich? Anything that can ignore normal combat mechanics is broken. Pinging was intended to let enemies have additional defenses without being broken, but it seems the devs prefer AHS instead which is just cheap. Needs to be fixed.







    Quote Originally Posted by Slayerj
    Binding Needle should have an effect outside of raids too, maybe make spikes last a short amount of time longer on non raid mobs?
    Well blade is so much stronger than Spike that what Spike does to an enemy doesn't compare to what Blade does outside of raids. Breaking reducing prot outaside of raids wouldn't be bad, let's say up to 3%? Not sure how spike should go though, both the damage and slowdown AOEs are too situational if Spike isn't scaled by Magic Attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slayerj
    As for mana crystal, I say make the crystals a 1 second charge with a cooldown of 10 seconds or something
    Thing is, if crystals are weaker than magic, people will use magic. If crystals are stronger than magic, people will use crystals. It's not like magic versus alchemy where they actually have different abilities, it's a gimped copy of the skills and has no real place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slayerj
    It'd also be nice if we could make new mines using them. Ice mines changed to be stronger and allow for hitting mods with their defenses increased while frozen, fire for either a small burn over time or just a massive large range area hit, and lighting for stun for a shorter time than ice but without the increased defenses.
    In most cases we go to the enemies, they don't come to us. For things like dungeons, you run so many rooms that placing the mines ahead of time in each room would quickly become tedious... and you can't put them ahead of time in boss rooms, the one place you might really want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slayerj
    I feel like Handicraft should be a 'linking' skill. That helps out with blacksmithing, tailoring, and carpentry to make them easier as well as being needed for some things you make with them. Like, and this is a lame example, you make a 'fine sand paper' and 'wood chisel' to use with carpentry to make base puppets and handles. This could then add minigames for each. Even 'finishing a bow' with the sandpaper for an extra touch up to it after you're done with the basic shapeing mini game (which should be a thing)
    Handicraft is in the Carpentry talent so linking those sounds good, but Carpentry makes just bows so how would they link together? As far as tools, how would those work and what would they do? Why would players want to use them, what benefit would it be? Would it be so much of a boost that players would consider it a requirement and then feel the need to grind it out?







    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Campfire: Is good enough just as a bonus to enchant burn success. Maybe reduce it to 3 firewood needed tho, since finest burn fires can be a hassle to make.
    If the only purpose of a skill is to provide a percent boost to one aspect of another skill, Campfire might as well not exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    First Aid: Is a joke now that SoT has replaced it so handily.
    Players need to beat G19 (which is not easy for newbies and takes 800 total level to start), then fulfill four weeklies (which takes RNG, skill, experience, and like a month), and also get their Crusader level up to at least 15 for full effect, alongside training Recovering Touch itself. First Aid will be a staple for a long time, and is usable without annoying re-allocating your points... so it definitely needs to be sped up.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Maybe if sitting instead changed it to also heal health for the wound recovered. Thematically the sitting works well, just not mechanically. I'd like to keep some bonus there.
    Something like while standing do full wound but no HP, while sitting do half the HP too? The HP recovered would be of the wound recovered, so you wouldn't be able to use bandages for just HP.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    If we could cook in stacks it would help a ton.
    How would that actually work, though? What with unstackale raw and food items. And then different food items have different qualities, would you produce them all in a stack of the same quality or would they suddenly explode your inventory?

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Herbalism/Potion Making: Events have rendered them obsolete. We have too many massive stockpiles of 500 and 1k S-types.
    Those don't come around often enough to replace the skill though.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    You would need to massively rebalance the recipes as a whole and have each craft yield multiple. Maybe add in better combo potions up to 500 instead of 50,
    More effort or less work would be easily done by making the 100 recipe yield 300s and so on like in the suggestion. Something more future-proof would be making potions heal percent health, but there's a lot to consider for a change like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    RNG crafts: Add a UI to allocate points into the craft. Have the RNG roll give you a number of points to spend (up to 10x number of stats rolled) and a cap (between 50 and 100%). higher rank still gives higher rolls, and better minimum rolls on the cap. Now you can spend the points into each stat to distribute it as you wish, up to the cap you roll. Each point is worth 10% of whatever max roll for that item is now. The crap rolls become a bit less crappy when you can at least somewhat salvage it by allocating the points towards the desired stats, even tho you might get hit by a lower cap on them for that individual attempt. At least it's not a minimum roll.
    Still RNG and still involves no player skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Gathering skills: Already fine. The speed increase they give is insane. We don't need wool quality or any of that, it's plenty just to have sheep explode all over Tir when you click them.
    I disagree. A master Miner should be capable of mining things that newbies cannot (due to lack of experience/technique). A master shearer should be able to gather better wool (and more from the same sheep) using their experience and judgment. Production skills work like that for a reason, to set requirements and give tengible incentives. Gathering skills should too.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Mining: Change Cuilin stones to no longer be alch, but be universal components of handicraftable repair kits. Low-grade = 90, Common = 95, fine = 97, finest = 98. Remove these from RA tasks. Other materials needed to make the kits would be appropriate difficulty materials from the related disciplines. For example, clothing repair kits would use 1 each of that quality fabric and silk, as well as a thin thread, braid, tough string, or tough thread for the 4 quality kits.
    Interesting suggestion, but I don't think they'd go for it since repairs of high-end items are a gold sink, and repair kits work the same regardless of item repair cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Mirage: DOES take damage range into account. They patched that in during the renovation I think.
    Will have to remember to check later for enchants working and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Final shot: No. It's the reason Korean elf archers are OP. They can magnum spam at an insane rate for way too much DPS with this.
    Got any details? If Magnum aimed faster it could have a larger cooldown.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Hawk's Eye: Temporary buff skill: Adds a loading time to all archery skills, but guarantees all shots will hit. Reduces cooldowns by 2 seconds while active (magnum's load time stands in for the cooldown during the skill anyway, and avoids crash spam)
    Not sure how I feel about that, since you'd be taking one waiting period (aiming) and replacing it with another (loading), and the loading time is not variable so it'd make combat feel more robotic.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Lance counter: Maybe make it into just a passive buff to regular counter when using lances? Make counter usable with lances.
    Counter with a lance having different values would work, but with literally just charge and mastery, what use would there be for the talent? Counter should work differently... just not sure how. Maybe allow canceling without cooldown, but also grant AHS for the first three seconds and block additional hits while counting the first? Since lances are so big.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Charge: Let humans do it without reforge or shield if they have r1
    Ooh, I like the idea, how about R5+? Less arrow defense with no shield, but that's inherent already.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Removing double bash already cuts the damage in half. You don't need to cut THAT in half again.
    I don't think you understand how insanely OP bash is and in how many ways it's OP.

    Normally if you want to deal the most damage to an enemy, you use the skill in your skillset with the highest multiplier. For Melee, that's Smash. So let's say you Smash an enemy repeatedly and we do some comparisons.
    • DPS comparisons.

      Recorded and timed repeatedly on spikes...
      Smash is ~3.5 seconds for a cycle.
      Bash is ~1.5 seconds for a cycle.
      Double Bash is ~1.87 seconds for a cycle.

      - Smash: 142% DPS
      - Smash 2H/Giant: 171% DPS
      - Smash 2H+Giant: 205% DPS.
      - Bash: 306% DPS
      - Double Bash: 491% DPS.

    • Pinging melee is intended to interrupt a combo, making it difficult to use melee on that enemy. However it doesn't stop Bash unless the ping happens twice in a row. This is because Bash has a set stun time that's much higher than normal attacks. Fast weapons stun for about 1.4 seconds. Very Slow weapons stun for about 2.7 seconds. Bash, at rank F, makes all weapons stun for 3.1 seconds. At rank 1 it stuns for 4.5 seconds, giving more than enough time to hit a pinging enemy a second time... because the ping doesn't interrupt your attack like it would normally.

    • Differing stun time is intended to make a balance between weapons of differing speeds, giving them a different combo speed and length. Bash's high set stun and low knockdown remove the speed and combo differences. Infinite comboing with no risk breaks the game. My newbie with 100 levels worth of AP, using the newbie gear, with rank B bash, can kill Scathatch monsters with no risk due to the infinite combo.

    So yes, we do need to double-nerf Bash because it's insane.

    - Suggested Bash Changes: 166% DPS
    Brings it more in line with things like Arrow Revolver damage-wise.
    I considered 300% R1 single-Bash (200% DPS), but that gets too close to Final Hit.

    Anyways the length of the combo (determined by the knockdown) is up for debate too. Should definitely be long enough to get five hits in if the enemy survives but not long enough that people could fire it infinitely. May need some knockdown decay delay for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Heavy armor mastery: Should give humans less dex cut. Match giants.
    10% at rank 1 is too small of a cut. 20%?

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Gold strike does not work.
    Gold Strike is not intended for endgame players or to compete with normal combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Hail Storm: There was a bug at one point that made the charges load twice as fast with little down time. It was a good skill during that bug. Whatever that was, just use that as the real skill.
    If charges were doubled in speed, the MP usage would need to be increased to compensate for the constant DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Maybe allow it to be spellwalked at half of your spellwalk speed (still double mana over time drain so big).
    Tempting, but would people actually use it like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Fusion: Can't be rechargeable. Fire/ice would become as strong as chaincast fire (actually stronger considering the skill bonus plus icebolt damage added on) while allowing far stronger magic weapons as a base.
    Good call, editing.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Mana shield: Un-nerf a bit or at least fix. Setting you to 0 def/prot is a HUGE loss.
    Aw crap, I thought it used the magic versions of the defensive skills. Should it use normal mdef but half the mprot? Putting that in for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Blaze charging never made sense. Originally you could release it and it would auto-fire at the nearest enemy. Now you have to click while holding it to fire, but you don't need to click ON anything. You CAN technically click on a mob to fire but it's hard to hold the hotkey and ctrl-target. Change it to start charging with a press instead of needing to hold, and cancel as normal with other skills. Then just let you normally ctrl target to fire.
    Blaze will auto-fire at the nearest enemy, even if they're behind you (just confirmed in-game again). The problem is the range is so small that any position lag will often keep enemies just out of range when they look like they're in range.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Spellwalk is also commonly used for chain firebolt kiting, eating the mp penalty. Master title removes the penalty but nobody uses it because meteor is so much more valuable. I think it's ok being niche. Buffing it might make it overpowered. You're free to chug S pots if you need to sustain it as-is.
    That's a good point, I adjusted the Spellwalk suggestion to only slightly lower the MP penalty, and lower the low-rank stamina cost so it's easier for lower level mages. What do you think the title should do instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Synth is already god for ingots, but more "fun" recipes like that would be appreciated. More reliable ways to beat RNG and get a stupid pirate suit so I can finally wear cub as a 10-year-old and share between different gender characters also appreciated. The RNG is killer, and you end up using semi-rare fished outfits as fodder because of their "value".
    Any suggestions on a mechanic, then?

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Mana Crystal: It gives MP. I like MP. I ranked it for the MP. Decrease load times and you can have utility in throwing ice spears out of a guard cylinder. That would be enough.
    Alch should jsut be able to use their own skill (Frozen Blast) for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Rain: Don't complain about training. I r1ed it with novice water cannon with almost no effort. You just need to use finish rule. It's not hard and not that grindy.
    I R1'd it a while ago. I'm being objective, not subjective. A skill in a production talent should not [i]require[i] a skill in a combat talent (let alone a different talent in general) in order to rank, that's the problem. It's like if Tailoring required you to kill enemies with a tailoring kit or if Blacksmithing required you to harvest leprechuans for ore fragments in the training.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Golem: Fix AI with guard cyl. Yes. Maybe allow it to inherit some of the player's combat stats when directly controlling. Remove cooldowns since it still has load times.
    Should the golem just use the player versions of skills? Going to put the stat percent down as like 25% for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Elemental masteries: You forgot that they also increase ewave's "marble" bonuses to 150 stat and 10% CDR at r1.
    The 150 stat bonuses don't mean much since 7% of that is like 10 damage and 10% cooldown reduction seems kind of weak too.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Life drain: Damage portion scales off missing health anyway, and is a great invincibility bypass. Increasing the healing might be ok tho.
    Yeah the damage scales, but the recovery doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Hydra: It's still already the one alch skill REALLY worth using because of it's invincibility bypass and non-aggro damage. It's pure boss cheese, and in situations where you do want to fight legit the magic shred helps a ton too (especially if lightning rod is part of your boss cheese)
    It's boss cheese because Lullaby is OP. Lullaby having the total duration reduced (as suggested) would reduce the effectiveness of Hydra on single targets given the small radius. It should be more usable on single targets, and keeping bosses and such within it while it's active would be easier without locking them down if it had a bigger radius. Perhaps bigger as it ranks up would be appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Fighter: Needs more damage as a whole.
    It's a question of Will sources for now, since Fighter skills have high multipliers but not as much Will as you can get other stats. Changing the damage from Will risks lowering the number of Will sources gained in the future as it'd be granted more sparingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Tumble: should be useable out of hitstun and briefly drop aggro, to give it a real use and give fighter a bit more reliability if they end up multi-aggroed.
    Dropping aggro and moving you out of the enemy group every 7 seconds? Time to carry a knuckle switch on the off slots forever. Too abusable with the skill as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Chain Mastery: I was the opposite. Everything else F and chain mastery 1. It gives buttloads of will for cheap AP.
    Pummel at rank 5 can rank up in as few as 260 raw uses (before talent). Meanwhile Chain Mastery at rank 5 literally needs thousands of uses of different fighter skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    SSK: No. Do not nerf. Buff. Make daze guaranteed at r1. It's our only saving grace against the terror or Master Lich. Leave our Master Lich destroyer alone.
    Something being useful against one cheap boss does not make it a good skill. The boss is a problem (should have level 2 resistances instead of AHS).

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Pummel: The slow beatdown is really good when it applies since the enemy is immobile and allies can freely damage it. It's fine for that. Maybe add a standing version for mobs that are immune to the knockdown with iframes for the player doing it.
    The standing version would also immobilize them but be limited to the first, or maybe just the first and second portions. It's slow otherwise, you start a Pummel on one enemy and people are two screens away when you finish. A standing version should also work on stuff that Pummel doesn't (due to no knockback).

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Respite: Buff to percentile SP good. Timing restriction nah. Keep the debuff but change it to MP-only, and drain half of your remaining instead of 10% max. If you're on a Merlin or something you're typically meditating or something sacrificing stamina for MP, so getting back such a large amount of stamina but continuing magic should cost. Inspire afterwards if you need, but you can't spend it on both stamina and magic at the same time. You will need to pot eventually for one of the stats.
    In practice it sucks. Within the past few days I finished all the Fighter skills, including Counter Punch, using Merlin's. Even trying to use basic bolt spells to aggro or stun enemies now and then, I rather rapidly went into negative MP much faster than Inspiration could recover it. Hell, I'd be at 50 MP, use Inspiration, and then it'd start restoring from negative MP (due to the penalty) so I'd end up with like 15% MP instead.

    If Inspiration can't keep up with the penalty, no way Meditation can, even ignoring stamina.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Music: Ensemble should copy the leader's success. Easier syncing, leader is free to use r1 scores since they will likely also have r1 playing.
    I still think scroll difficulty should be selectable to ease Playing Instrument training, but having this as a change for Jam Session wouldn't be bad if that's what you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Composing: Add a master title that allows even higher character caps, or even a nearly-unlimited character cap but a limited duration (2-3 minutes) so you can write short but complex songs.
    People would be able to write scrolls that would crash everybody in hearing range when played, since the MML is broadcast to other players at the start of play. Unlimited characters with a time limit means the first three seconds could literally have 100,000 characters that do little to nothing but are technically part of the scroll.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Dischord: Maybe make the slow last a little bit longer? As you said, it's effective, but not something you normally would use. If the initial stun could hit through AHS it would be nice alban CC against cobwebs.
    The slow time is cut into by the stun time, so an increase does sound warranted. 7 seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Lulla: Only if the after-immunity is not permanent. Have it grant a 1 minute immunity buff to mobs instead of being 1 and done forever. Then reduced duration, sure, why not?
    A limited immunity doesn't sound bad, let's see what other people say about it, added.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Having it as a 10 minute buff doesn't hurt anything, it's just convenience and we should have it.
    Taking no damage from attacks would be convenient too. Group buffs lasting 60 seconds is fine. Buffs need management otherwise they might as well just be permanent stat increases if they last longer than some shadow missions themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Enthrall: Needs more duration. Also needs slightly slower stamina drain. Maybe infinite duration capped by your max stamina? Let it work on passive NPC animals too. I want to play Bremen's Mask theme throughout town with an army of chickens!
    What are you using it for where the high duration is needed? I mainly use it for laughs or luring enemies together for skill training.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    You skipped chorus. The regen is ok for mp/sp. I'd like it to allow stacking different song buffs while inside like BFO + vivace, if possible.
    Whoops, added the skill. Eh on stacking buffs, unless it's going to keep the full attention of a bard as a sacrifice, it's too strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Crisis and smash. Definitely remove enemy iframes.
    Not sure if possible, but added.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Don't nerf shooting rush. If you buff bullet storm enough things will balance out. It's already really dangerous since it pulls aggro from everything hit, and it keeps gunner with the combat "flow" it needs.
    Gunner "flow" is Shooting Rush Shooting Rush Shooting Rush Shooting Rush Shooting Rush. The skill is not being nerfed (no changes to damage/effects), the spammability is being removed so players will actually use something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Grapple: Actually good. It breaks through counter since it counts as ranged damage, giving you a free flash launcher against them.
    You're using guns. Just shoot them.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    WotG: Mostly it's a final hit so the skill cooldown buff doesn't add much. Infinite ammo does let you storm more things if it's AoE, but that goes into storm buffs (quicker recovery, shorter animation on large groups instead of 1 at a time)
    Cooldown buff would make things like Grappling around easier, but also help training a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Ninja: Just give it all the KR buffs (including R-type upgrade buff) and we're good.
    Not if only hardcore players can train it. The only times I notice players botting is with Ninja skills, also they removed Ninja talent from the newbie section. It's an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Pot lore: Yeah, a buff like Thursday(?) would be good. The poisoning reduction is... a thing? I have so many event S-types I don't every worry about poison while chugging.
    I still get potion poisoned even with it at rank 1, it just takes a few more potions. I don't think that aspect should be buffed though, since potion poisoning should remain as it's a limiting factor preventing the game from getting Diablo II potion type of usage (spam them to survive anything).

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Doppel: It does scale. Like alchemy. With stamina. It's a very low scaling. It needs much higher scaling.
    It's a physical attack, it should use physical damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Berserk: What if it granted full knockdown immunity (instead of just 100% ping) and immunity to death while up? Just keep pinging and pinging into deadly, never knockdown until it's over? It adds a desperation use to the skill and some cool scenarios with it. I do like it as max instead of str tho.
    It grants AHS and not ping right now. Immunity to death temporarily would give it some really neat uses. Given the tiny duration, large cooldown, and leaving you in deadly that sounds like a good tradeoff.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Also no, gun doesn't get half use since it drops your int to 0.
    It gets half the bonus. There's a huge separate penalty though yeah. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Shockwave: funny you should mention high stats should not have downsides. Health has always been nothing BUT a downside. Max deadly is half your max health. The more you have the more you need to recover from those 2k+ boss hits. If you had only 50 HP, you can take ANY hit in the game, go deadly, 100 pot, and be full again ready to take another hit. Deadly should have a fixed max of -100 HP.
    Max deadly is your full health, and that's an interesting idea but would make recovering from many attacks you're not supposed to survive too easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    On to shockwave, just change it from 10% max to 10% current, and add a significant current mana scaling to it.
    Mana scaling whatnow?

    Quote Originally Posted by callback
    Binding Needle: Don't buff it. You forget that it stacks 5 times with multiple bladers in the party.
    How long it lasts would make a difference though.





    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    To most of the production skills
    Having an -entrust to others- option would be nice to have for production services.
    Yes, definitely, added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Tailoring and Blacksmithing (and maybe engineering/magic crafts since those also have armor crafting):
    Instead of releasing clothing, armors, wigs, etc 'ready to wear' from gachapon, turn all those clothing/amors into sewing patterns/blueprints/crafting recipe coupons. Therefore people would benefit by crafting materials for training the respective skills. tailoring or other productions would be useful again instead of just ranking those skills just for the stats.
    Those would still be limited and not available normally in-game. They used to do that, production gachapons gave out specific manuals and such.

    We need more permanent content. Not temporary availability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Engineering & Magic Crafts
    I don't think Engineering or Magic craft needs training amount fixed, I think it gives a bit of a challenge and satisfaction when reaching the r1. However I think they should make it that the higher the rank, the less materials you use to craft something so then you can produce more with less waste of materials.
    As somebody with R1 Engineering, if I could use less materials for guns I could flood the market with guns.

    The skills at least need a talent like other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Herbalism
    Make poison, mandrake and gold herb patches on random fields on certain days, during certain times in a mabi day. Or at least farily available in their current locations.
    More field herbs that spawn randomly would be nice, added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Potion making
    get rid of 30s and 50s potions and let the 100s and 300s substitute those. Add the 500s and 1k variation to the potion making list so players with 1k hp/mp/stam or above can benefit from potions instead of mass smashing the 100 and 300 potions which oftenly leads to potion poisoning.
    What would the materials be though?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Else this skill could be used to summon the monsters you have collected from transformation mastery which could aid in some way the lack of interest in this skill.
    Never even thought of that, but unless there's lots of restrictions... I mean, imagine summoning a white dragon that starts walking along.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Metallurgy
    Give better gem sizes.
    Simple, and agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Honestly, I don't think people who just have Exploration mastery or even higher ranked skill deserves to gain access to the dungeon just yet until they unlock Treasure Hunter hidden title by obtaining master on all the relevant talents tied to it or the typical way as rebirthing into a Treasure Hunter hero talent.
    Would mercantile really be needed though? I mean it's thematic to the Treasure Hunter NPC himself (personality), but it's made up of just fomor commerce and rich bank dude gold throwing, neither of which have much to do with Iria l-rodding for puzzles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Commerce Mastery
    Able to unload every item at once and still obtain each training point per X,XXX ducats instead of 1 by 1.
    Ah, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Artifact Investigation
    Honestly I use artifact investigation frequently and this is what i think it should be added to it.
    Expanding the artifact item list even further to be able to find new artifacts as well chances of finding rarer artifacts worth even more exploration and gold. Adding more exploration books with up-to-date rewards, rare enchants, patterns, recipes, materials, etc. Make Artifact to be actually worth but in exploration exp, gold, rewards. EVERYTHING.
    Thing is, the skill doesn't find the artifacts. That'd be a change to exploration in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Synthesis and Fragmentation
    These should have a proper production-like list to see available recipes even more needed in synthesis. Synthesis also needs auto-production as dragging items 1 by 1 over and over becomes really boring.
    Ah, agreed and added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    At higher rank Synthesis it should require less items or less gold value items to make a fixed recipe item or random item respectively.
    Sounds good, added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    At higher level fragmentation, the minimum amount cap of fragmented materials should be increased at higher ranks allowing consistent amount range of materials obtained. Ex. instead of the range being 0-10, it becomes 50% of the max range, so instead of 0~10 it will be 5~10 at rank 1.
    That risks the devs not going for it, because it'd make production skills a bit too easy. I mean look at Blacksmithing and Brionac.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Metal conversion
    Making more out of unknown ores, increasing the amount of items obtained from a successful minigame and higher chances of gems.
    How would this work, more unknowns required to make higher ores?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Summon Golem
    Obtaining stats from this skill to make it worth it. ex. hp+str, hp+protection.
    AI similar to the real golems or at least intuitive AIs that can take care of its own.
    Being able to heal a summoned golem, buff them or use potions on them.
    Make their skills go r1, cough windmill
    a bit of stats, mostly on protection.
    For player stats, I'd argue for Stamina and Dexterity or Intelligence to be thematic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Barrier spikes
    Skill able to give stats per skill rank. hp+defense or hp+stam (up to 5)
    Higher protection, higher hp, higher damage if it gets 1koed by a monster
    Being able to choose how many barriers will be summoned as well the shape of them (circular, square,line, triangle, parallel, or just customized by used.
    For stats, Will is more thematic for this kind of skill. Definitely needs scaling def/prot, spikes don't survive at all in hard missions, let alone higher things where you might want to use them tactically. Different barrier formations though, I'm kind of eh on unless it's like, a semicircle instead of a circle. And there'd need to be some UI for it, how would you choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Sandburst
    Adding stats per rank. will+dex or will+luck maybe?
    Adding additional damage (magic or attack) to a monster that has been blinded.
    Being able to splash it if there are more monsters in front of you.
    I wanna' say Luck, but low. Like 10 Will and 5 Luck total. Additional damage, like a slight percent? Up to 5% or so? Not sure if it should be physical or magical. I want to say physical to encourage using it in parties and not just for self-buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Wind Blast
    being able to splash-knockback monsters with this skill
    Hm, sort of like a cone version of the alch's Windmill then? That sounds like a better buff to me, but since it'd be primarily self-defensive I'll remove the damage buff suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Hydra transmutation
    Increase the range at higher ranks
    Unable to break the Barrier Spikes created by a person.
    Slowing the monsters a bit so they don't run out of range too fast.
    Hm, good suggestions, though spikes risks too much cheese if spikes will also stand up to boss attacks so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Flash launcher
    Mini-invincible frames the moment you kick a monster so another monster don't cancel your skill right at that moment.
    Eh, other things run that risk too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Bullet Slide
    Make it a knockback splash-ish?
    Risking the additional aggro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Bullet Storm
    Fix the red arrow and displacement bugs
    A bit more range/radius to it to use it efficiently
    and a 12 second cooldown instead of 15 to have a better combat flow after 2 shooting rushes or so since after shooting rush there needs to be a skill that manage the mobs that were provoked more available.
    Tempting but I'd rather lower Flash Launcher's cooldown if there's going to be a down time for all skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Grapple Shot
    Give a debuff to a grappled monster to it can be used often for debuff purposes as well. Like a damage increase? slowing the monster? defense reduction?
    Slowdown seems best, let's say 5-25%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infighter
    Reload
    Enable continuous reloading even when hit by a monster, but cancel it when knocked back.
    or
    Give a small chance to insta-reload while attempting to reload while being hit by a monster. (sorta similar to shockwave)
    I'll go with the first. Reloading is intended to be risky, but should still be able to complete normally.



    So...

    - Added the loading/targeting issue of Fighter skills to the fighter intro.
    - Added a bit about Counter Punch needing to actually target the enemy.
    - Added a bit about going into cooldown but not activating to Counter Punch, Rain Casting, and Shock. Any other skills that do this?
    - Added the bit about Tumble needing to unlock the player a bit sooner.
    - Added a bit about picking up items with Puppetry.
    - Added notes to Climactic Crash and Inciting Incident about targeting and Cerbersisusus.
    - Added fishing manual versus AFK.
    - Added the but to Control Marionette about the cooldown bug.
    - Added the note about Smokescreen and direct clicking.
    - Added the Chain Cylinder cooldown suggestion to Golden Time.
    - Added a bit about prot reduction for Breaking Lies outside of raids.
    - Added the suggestion for shieldless charge at a high rank.
    - Added defensive suggestions to Mana Shield.
    - Added Fantastic Chorus.
    - Added the suggestion for Berserk to temporarily prevent death.
    - Added the suggestion for entrusting on life skills.
    - Added a suggestion for more herbs to spawn outside.
    - Added mention of using shared skills with monster forms when transformed.

    - Clarified some puppetry changes by adding numbers.
    - Changed the Spellwalk numbers a bit.
    - Changed the Hydra radius suggestion to indicate scaling size with rank instead of a flat change.

    - Removed the recharging for Fusion Bolt due to fire stacking.

    And maybe more I forgot to note here.

  7. #17
    The Red Fox Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj's Avatar
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    For mana crystal, while that is true, I think a lot of people wouldn't mind ranking the skill if they mainly uses alchemy and another skill set other than magic. This way you could use full alchemy (or melee alch) with the main equipment and your side gear could be anything else and you'd still have access to both basic bolts and inter. magic. A full charge 1 second spell every now and then would be handy, even if it had reduced damage. Though maybe 10 seconds was too short of a cooldown, 15-20?

    While it's true we go to the mobs a lot of the time, much of the time we also have to activate the mobs spawning, orbs, chests, waiting for the next wave to spawn, etc. Elves could even set down a mine in cases where mobs are already present using hide quickly. I think they'd also make good defenses in large boss rooms as you can set a few up near your little corner for a safe spot to run back to. While spikes do work, I'd like to think freezing or stunning a mob with an ice/electric mine would help out a lot too. I'm sure they could also change them up to work outside of dungeons/missions so we could use them for other things too, like player events and whatnot.

    Handicraft feels like it's more about making little things here and there that either serve a main purpose or help with a main purpose. As for the tools and their benefits, they'd make small changes to alter the stats in some way or another. Changes to the min-max damage, dura, balance, injury rate, knockback, aimspeed, etc. Some things would go up, others would go down. (I honestly forgot Handicraft and carpentry where in the same talent, so maybe those two just work together) The boosts would be 5-15 give or take and all depending on what's going up and what's going down. I'm not going to lie, I thought I had this thought up MUCH more, but I clearly don't...


    Another change I'd love to see is player 'fusion bolt' working off of your current fusion bolt rank. It's a shame to make something so nice for party play and then completely outshine it.

    Finally, I get that transformation mastery wasn't really meant to be a real way to fight...but I am upset that you can't at least use some magic with it.

  8. #18
    Elvs gud! Rite guise? Esileruf is a friend of Nora Esileruf is a friend of Nora Esileruf is a friend of Nora Esileruf's Avatar
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    I'm gonna go with my opinions on a few things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rydian View Post


    - Life
    The art of being a village NPC in an MMO. Life skills are the most varied within a skill tab, and in general either need minor changes, or additions to crafting in general to be more desired skills. Wearing the master title for a production skill should also increase the minimum roll for goods. All production skills should have an entrust option (like with Enchant), given the rarity and value of many materials nowadays.

     


    - Archery
    The art of remotely installing new pointy sticks into somebody. Bows in general are weaker than comparable melee weapons across the board, so some skill changes could be used instead. In general, ranged attacks need to calculate their range from the outside of a hitbox, not the center. With the way it is now, targeting the center can often put you within melee distance on really large enemies.

     


    - Combat
    The art of sticking the pointy thing into the squishy thing that bleeds. Many combat skills affect other talents, so suggestions will vary.


     




    - Cleric / Healing
    The art of using fartsparkles for good deeds. Clerics need some way to produce or sanctify goods for use, the easiest way would be for Clerics to have some way of producing Holy Water, perhaps only while under the talent.

     


    - Magic
    The art of powering up like you're in DBZ, then hitting them with magic instead. Charging up and then firing heavily-damaging skills, works well overall but everything could use attention to detail. One major issue is that speed upgrades on wands/staves seem to do little to nothing, compared to speed increases from other sources. This needs to be looked at.

     


    - Construct Alchemy
    The art of making little clay horses and then losing your mom to an unknown illness. Intended for support and to be used alongside life skills, lots of changes could be used here.

     


    - Fighter
    The art of punching things until they stop moving. While the skillset was designed to be single-target initially (as balance against melee), the offensive options for it are limited and repetitive and some of the nerfing needs to be undone. Counterattack should have normal stamina usage and Windmill should have a normal radius with a fighter setup. Counter Punch should be a normal skill with two more skills added to make a third full chain to help reduce repetition. Activating chain skills (2 and 3) also does not preload them, refusing to use them if you don't already have a target, and normally choosing an enemy uses a normal attack instead... this needs to be fixed.

     


    - Music
    The art of using concussive or compressive force to bend the will of others to your means. Generally consisting of buffs that players can swap to an instrument for, established bards with high-rank singing can buff barehanded (though missing instrument upgrade buffs). One major annoyance is, when performing songs for entertainment, you cannot use buff skills for perfect playing while on a sitting instrument. This should be changed to avoid unrequired wear and tear on score scrolls.

     


    - Dual Gun
    The art of making pew pew noises until stuff gives up and falls over. Has one or two useful skills, with the rest gimped in usability. One thing that always annoyed me, though, is how Dual Guns turn you into a ballerina the moment you pick them up. Even basic skills like Counterattack suddenly become all flippy and flashy. I think that each type of skill should have three animations. A more awkward/simple one at low ranks, a normal one at medium ranks, then the flashy animations at high ranks. Dual Gun Mastery could affect the animation overrides for other skills.

     


    - Hidden
    The art of getting peanut butter in somebody's chocolate.

     
    God that took awhile.

    Also, @Tropa: Does BFO even work on alchemy? I mean I know the entirety of how magic's dumbass formula works and I think I even have the old log function memorized somewhere in my head but I have no idea how that backwards devil cat math with Alchemy does its thing.
    Last edited by Esileruf; 08-12-2016 at 02:52 AM. Reason: I should be shot for thinking of ways to buff RC.
     :^)

  9. #19
    French Fries Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esileruf View Post
    Also, @Tropa: Does BFO even work on alchemy? I mean I know the entirety of how magic's dumbass formula works and I think I even have the old log function memorized somewhere in my head but I have no idea how that backwards devil cat math with Alchemy does its thing.
    It does, but very slightly, I think It's only effecting the "Damage Enchant" part of the first half of the formula for Watercannon
     math
    Last edited by Tropa; 08-12-2016 at 07:00 AM.

  10. #20
    Mabination User bob has defeated the golden spiderling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydian View Post
    Technically a rank F and a master Sheep Shearer produce the exact same thing.

    That's why i want to have more benefits for higher ranks.


    I don't think it was intended for serious combat to begin with, more of a collection type of mini-goal thing. There are stat boosts while transformed, I get like 64 more STR when I turn into a turtle, but I don't know to make the skill potentially more damaging or if it's even intended as such.

    This "fun" skill costs a shit ton of AP and gives too much str to be ignored. Killing things in other form is "fun" too

    Was debating on spellwalk for this, but I figured being rooted wouldn't be bad if you could hit stuff further and charge fast enough to manage aggro.

    Being able to move at anyspeed at all beats being a sitting duck waiting for mobs to hit you because the stun usually isn't long enough to keep 1 mob away

    Waiting on a response for the battle alch thing for an actual suggestion. As far as Chain Cylinder, would rapid-firing the skills it works on be OP? The comparison, magic, can get wand upgrades to permanently chaincast one element at a time.

    Nothing wrong with having chain cylinder cd lowered. Think about it this way, if you get interrupted while loading you're back to slow af alchemy for another charge time. Battle alchemy is already slow as it is.

    I think the first is a matter of the number of Will sources in the game.

    We off by like ~500will, i dont think it's the problem.


    I think faster charging would be better. It currently takes 5 seconds at rank F, but 15 seconds at rank 1 to charge the skill. 15 seconds is way too long to expect enemies to stand around not hitting you without relying on broken CC (Lullaby) or a coordinated effort by other players to do nothing but CC. As far as the cooldown, I think it's good for the amount of damage this skill can do (the listed damage is per attack and there's 5 attacks).

    I think about it like this, if you're gonna take more than 5 seconds to set up something, it's more than likely to be a skill that's not used while in the middle of combat. Therefore, it doesn't' matter if you charge faster or slower by a few seconds. Lower cd is a better choice. Also quicker training kek.

    I'd totally use it... if the traps weren't 1K per shot. Instantly locking down an enemy (no aim time) for up to 10 seconds at a distance can have lots of uses both for party play and solo. Not to mention the crit damage increase.

    Most mobs that dont die in 1 shot can't be rooted. Early game archers don't go ap for this shit. The skill is a joke.

    How would that scaling work? Would it be different for the different semi-melee skillsets?

    i dont freaking know :/ how about some sort of scaling off str that only applies to melee skill sets. I also think invincibility is a bit too abusable/overpowered.

    [qupte="bob"]spike sub skills exist???[quo]They seem to have thought the AOE effects on spike would be more usable than they are now. Wouldn't be as bad if spike wasn't fixed damage and the AOE damage wasn't totally pathetic amounts.

    so you're implying that spike damage should scale? :^]. I did remember reading something about mages/archers "should" main celestial spike so int/dex?

    Reforges are not considered here due to their inherently paid nature... and how much work it would be to balance them properly (especially across skillsets with different damage formula).


    i understand that they are paid nature but if there's a reforge for it, devcat wont make a change on it? feels that way to me at least
    /5char
    Last edited by bob; 08-12-2016 at 09:22 AM.
    I miss my arrows so often, I can be a storm trooper...

    Also, i'd like to thank League of Legends for teaching me how to be toxic.

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