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Thread: Suggestion: Overall Skill Rebalance

  1. #21
    Mabination User callback the ogre slayer callback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydian View Post
    If the only purpose of a skill is to provide a percent boost to one aspect of another skill, Campfire might as well not exist.
    True, but it does have other uses. Think way back to the early days of mabi. People still didn't use campfire. It was always sit, bandage, heal. Nobody wanted to spend the time waiting on recovery. We sometimes stayed dead waiting for naos when they refreshed per in-game day, but never on actual natural recovery. The truth is, campfire is powerful for recovering stamina in particular, because it stacks. Enduring melody, nimbus buff, rest, and campfire all stack to fill your stamina insanely fast. Campfires are still used for fire arrows (maybe change it from a flat 50% to lower at first and increase with campfire rank tho?), and for cheesing LoS against some bosses and their AoE attacks. (Yes I know that can be considered a bug but it's one so ancient and well-known it's basically a core feature)

    Something like while standing do full wound but no HP, while sitting do half the HP too? The HP recovered would be of the wound recovered, so you wouldn't be able to use bandages for just HP.
    That is exactly what I was saying, yes.

    How would that actually work, though? What with unstackable raw and food items. And then different food items have different qualities, would you produce them all in a stack of the same quality or would they suddenly explode your inventory?
    If a recipe produces 3 portions, that food would have a max stack size of 3, and only be stackable with food of the same quality (even identical stat boosts with different quality value would not stack). The result would be 1 stack of 3 of whatever quality you got in the minigame.

    Those don't come around often enough to replace the skill though.
    Maybe it depends how hard you farm, but I have like 8 years worth of potions from just the last 2 catchapons alone. Events wrecked the recovery potion paradigm.

    I disagree. A master Miner should be capable of mining things that newbies cannot (due to lack of experience/technique). A master shearer should be able to gather better wool (and more from the same sheep) using their experience and judgment. Production skills work like that for a reason, to set requirements and give tengible incentives. Gathering skills should too.
    The shearer is not producing the wool. The sheep is. The shearer can be more efficient at gathering it, and the skill already does that. Insane speed increase, more multi-gathers in the same number of attempts, all the workings of being better at the job. If you want to go and rank animal husbandry and raise a sheep capable of producing golden fleece, go ahead.

    Or are you suggesting to add multiple levels of node? So Tir sheep are one level producing regular wool, but Tara sheep and the various goats are higher level and have a different variety of wool? For mining would you put a minimum rank required to mine the golden ORE! deposits, sulfur pits, cuilin stones, volcanic rocks, etc? It would be a massive overhaul to gathering as a whole, but maybe?

    Got any details? If Magnum aimed faster it could have a larger cooldown.
    They typically zero shot it is all I know, and with final shot's aim speed they are spamming it every second against those advanced heavy stander bosses for insane DPS, way more than bash or even final hit can do.

    I don't think you understand how insanely OP bash is and in how many ways it's OP.

    Normally if you want to deal the most damage to an enemy, you use the skill in your skillset with the highest multiplier. For Melee, that's Smash. So let's say you Smash an enemy repeatedly and we do some comparisons.
    • DPS comparisons.

      Recorded and timed repeatedly on spikes...
      Smash is ~3.5 seconds for a cycle.
      Bash is ~1.5 seconds for a cycle.
      Double Bash is ~1.87 seconds for a cycle.

      - Smash: 142% DPS
      - Smash 2H/Giant: 171% DPS
      - Smash 2H+Giant: 205% DPS.
      - Bash: 306% DPS
      - Double Bash: 491% DPS.

    • Pinging melee is intended to interrupt a combo, making it difficult to use melee on that enemy. However it doesn't stop Bash unless the ping happens twice in a row. This is because Bash has a set stun time that's much higher than normal attacks. Fast weapons stun for about 1.4 seconds. Very Slow weapons stun for about 2.7 seconds. Bash, at rank F, makes all weapons stun for 3.1 seconds. At rank 1 it stuns for 4.5 seconds, giving more than enough time to hit a pinging enemy a second time... because the ping doesn't interrupt your attack like it would normally.

    • Differing stun time is intended to make a balance between weapons of differing speeds, giving them a different combo speed and length. Bash's high set stun and low knockdown remove the speed and combo differences. Infinite comboing with no risk breaks the game. My newbie with 100 levels worth of AP, using the newbie gear, with rank B bash, can kill Scathatch monsters with no risk due to the infinite combo.

    So yes, we do need to double-nerf Bash because it's insane.

    - Suggested Bash Changes: 166% DPS
    Brings it more in line with things like Arrow Revolver damage-wise.
    I considered 300% R1 single-Bash (200% DPS), but that gets too close to Final Hit.

    Anyways the length of the combo (determined by the knockdown) is up for debate too. Should definitely be long enough to get five hits in if the enemy survives but not long enough that people could fire it infinitely. May need some knockdown decay delay for that.
    Again, the point of bash is to BE higher DPS than smash. Smash is intended as frontloaded burst. Bash is supposed to be sustained DPS for bosses. 300% DPS might be fine? We want it to be the best option even for a giant in ideal gear with a 9 piercing lance against a boss with enough def/prot for that to matter. The idea with the 5-hit combo with MASSIVE finisher satisfies both this and the combat flow aspect. The finisher ends it. Guaranteed knockback (minus AHS immunity), resets the combo and keeps the flow, and huge damage to make sure the combo as a whole averages out higher DPS than smash in extended fights. It's also dangerous, especially if we give it a low stack decay, since you are open wide to interruption from outside mobs while comboing. That's a big drawback compared to other talents like magic which have their own insane DPS which we NEED to have bash still competing with. Yes nerf it, but consider how far. Magic and range (especially KR elf range) are the standard to compare against. The only really broken element to fix is the infinite combo, frankly.

    Gold Strike is not intended for endgame players or to compete with normal combat.
    And beginners have way better things to be spending their AP on. You don't train gold strike until way later on when you're scrounging the skill page for every last point of LUCK you can find. Giving it some sort of other utility isn't a bad idea.
    Last edited by callback; 08-12-2016 at 01:09 PM.

  2. #22
    Mabination User callback the ogre slayer callback's Avatar
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    Gold Strike is not intended for endgame players or to compete with normal combat.
    And beginners have way better things to be spending their AP on. You don't train gold strike until way later on when you're scrounging the skill page for every last point of LUCK you can find. Giving it some sort of other utility isn't a bad idea.

    If charges were doubled in speed, the MP usage would need to be increased to compensate for the constant DPS.
    It was pretty reasonable during the bug. Good enough to use, mp cost still wasn't that much better compared to firebolt spam, drawback of being immobile and the big startup time, and the charge speed was just right for managing aggro.


    Blaze will auto-fire at the nearest enemy, even if they're behind you (just confirmed in-game again). The problem is the range is so small that any position lag will often keep enemies just out of range when they look like they're in range.
    Maybe this depends on settings, because releasing for me always cancels. I need to click the ground like windmill to fire. I still like the idea of just having it load and charge with 1 press so you have 2 hands free to target and click.


    I R1'd it a while ago. I'm being objective, not subjective. A skill in a production talent should not [i]require[i] a skill in a combat talent (let alone a different talent in general) in order to rank, that's the problem. It's like if Tailoring required you to kill enemies with a tailoring kit or if Blacksmithing required you to harvest leprechuans for ore fragments in the training.
    Didn't they change playing instrument to do exactly that? Require you to go hit things with it? How does that help you play any better? Again, it's easy enough to do with novice rank water, and thematically it's you getting a feel for how the rain itself works, learning to manipulate it after the fact.

    The 150 stat bonuses don't mean much since 7% of that is like 10 damage and 10% cooldown reduction seems kind of weak too.
    For a 5-stack of water it's actually 195% (30 per charge, 6.5 multiplier), but yeah on harder mobs 290 damage isn't that special.

    Yeah the damage scales, but the recovery doesn't.
    I was agreeing with you in that allowing the recovery to scale would be the one place to buff on that skill

    It's boss cheese because Lullaby is OP. Lullaby having the total duration reduced (as suggested) would reduce the effectiveness of Hydra on single targets given the small radius. It should be more usable on single targets, and keeping bosses and such within it while it's active would be easier without locking them down if it had a bigger radius. Perhaps bigger as it ranks up would be appropriate?
    It's boss cheese because rain OP. There's a reason phantasm is rain-immune. I don't know how many bosses lulla even works on, but even the biggest buffed duration isn't enough to tick down all the way. It takes cloud and hydra cheesing (and lightning rod in between) to finish the job. Yes lulla hydra is cheese in MA, but so is elemental mounted lance charge. MA is just broken.

    Dropping aggro and moving you out of the enemy group every 7 seconds? Time to carry a knuckle switch on the off slots forever. Too abusable with the skill as it is.
    Wasn't sure on cooldown. You think an instant drop with no immunity to picking it back up would still be OP?

    Pummel at rank 5 can rank up in as few as 260 raw uses (before talent). Meanwhile Chain Mastery at rank 5 literally needs thousands of uses of different fighter skills.
    or training pots... Hey, I needed the will. (I did grind at least up to 5 with my mostly rank F at the time skills, and it was a pain.)


    I still think scroll difficulty should be selectable to ease Playing Instrument training, but having this as a change for Jam Session wouldn't be bad if that's what you mean?
    Yeah. Selecting lower difficulty only helps if you want to make training scrolls for a new friend, which I guess is still ok, but the real issue is always jam sessions.

    People would be able to write scrolls that would crash everybody in hearing range when played, since the MML is broadcast to other players at the start of play. Unlimited characters with a time limit means the first three seconds could literally have 100,000 characters that do little to nothing but are technically part of the scroll.
    Not actually unlimited, but I have several songs written that are rather short despite being around 3000 characters per section. I want to use them.


    Taking no damage from attacks would be convenient too. Group buffs lasting 60 seconds is fine. Buffs need management otherwise they might as well just be permanent stat increases if they last longer than some shadow missions themselves.
    But if you're running content with the intention of always rebuffing, it may as WELL be permanent. It's just annoying to have to stop and do it so often, not fun. If they fixed the Tuan pet to actually extend at the time you cast instead of whatever weird system they have it on where it needs to stay summoned while you're in combat using the buff, that might solve it (pay to remove annoying game "feature"). No I do not want to divine link it.

    What are you using it for where the high duration is needed? I mainly use it for laughs or luring enemies together for skill training.
    (I said, I want to lead my chicken army around town all day. Maybe do a CP-based max duration on mobs to snap out of it, where spiders and raccons being so far below you might take hours but dungeon mobs that you want to CC for your allies snap out very quickly so that it's fun in town, but not any stronger in combat.

    Whoops, added the skill. Eh on stacking buffs, unless it's going to keep the full attention of a bard as a sacrifice, it's too strong.
    3 words for you. Song of Fist. Yeah, I'm cool with a bard being immobile for powerful buffs.


    You're using guns. Just shoot them.
    but a grapple->flash combo is cooler.


    Not if only hardcore players can train it. The only times I notice players botting is with Ninja skills, also they removed Ninja talent from the newbie section. It's an issue.
    KR buff does ease the training too IIRC. At least on abyss it does with the shorter cooldown.

    It's a physical attack, it should use physical damage.
    Only your hit is physical. The rest are spirits. How about we hybridize it to use your current smash rank plus a different scaling for the actual clones? Either way the stamina scaling needs to be increased, but I'm fine with it being stam instead of str.

    Max deadly is your full health, and that's an interesting idea but would make recovering from many attacks you're not supposed to survive too easy.
    But again, if you made a character specifically to have as little health as possible, you end up tankier than anyone else in the game. That shouldn't be the case. It does need to be revisited.

    Mana scaling whatnow?
    If thematically you're just discharging a bunch of raw mana in a desperate attempt to push things off of you, shouldn't the damage also scale with the mana used? Just a small thought.

    How long it lasts would make a difference though.
    It lasts long enough for parties to have time to rage support between each swing, it seems fine to me.


    Do you have special permissions for unlimited character count posts? I'm hitting walls here having such a vast discussion.

  3. #23
    French Fries Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann Tropa has transcended Tuatha Dé Danann
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    Alchemy Water/Fire/Wind/Clay Mastery
    • Removed
    • AP Refunded

    Alchemy Mastery
    • Alchemy efficiency now only effects the final portion of damage formulas

    Elemental Wave
    • Add in Elemental Wave effects for Rain Casting, Barrier Spikes and Hydra Transmutation
    • Attribute Marbles no longer add in HP, MP and SP, but instead add in Water/Fire/Wind/Clay efficiency(50% Marble filled will grant 7.5% efficiency while 100% grants 15%)

    Wind Blast
    • Gives 15 Stamina

    Sand Burst
    • Gives 15 Stamina

    Heat Buster
    • 100%~75% Splash Damage depending on distance
    • +50% Splash Radius
    • Ignores a good chunk of Magic Defense and Magic Protection

    Frozen Blast
    • Now inflicts a strong "Frost Bite" debuff that damages enemies overtime and reduces Magic Defense and Magic Protection regardless if they get frozen or not.

    Chain Cylinder
    • Each charge counts as 2 seconds for the cooldown(scales down with cooldown reduction)
    • Durability used by this skill will only count as "1 use" instead of 5

    Rain Casting
    • No longer breaks aggro
    • Lightning Strikes now stun for 2 seconds
    • Increases the probability of enemies getting Frozen by Frozen Blast
    Last edited by Tropa; 08-13-2016 at 03:06 AM.

  4. #24
    The Red Fox Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj the shadow hero Slayerj's Avatar
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    A bit off topic, but will you be making a thread for how to balance the mobs in game as well? I'd love to see that.

    Blaze should allow you to move with it charged at a slow pace using the WASD keys. The mob YOU ARE GOING TO HIT should have some sort of marking on it while charging. This way you know if you're going to hit or not. Finally, add a bit of range to this skill. The closer you are, the closer to 'normal' damage you do, with being further away restricting the damage a bit. This way displacement doesn't COMPLETELY kill this skill. Finally, I think this should be a 'hidden' skill honestly. It came out before hidden skills were a thing and required combat to learn it, so why wasn't it ever made into a hidden skill?

    Campfire should also increase mp recovery slightly while resting at it. When you're sitting at a campfire you tend to stare at the flames and lose track of things, that's sorta like meditation right?

    Spell walk should not restrict your speed or cost stamina while running with basic bolts. It should also allow you to move at more than a walk with blaze loaded. Use stamina for loading basic bolts WHILE MOVING yes. It makes no sense why you suddenly start blowing up stamina for moving with an ice bolt loaded when normally you don't. I get that you need to get your body 'ready' or whatever to move around with magic, but that should not apply for basic bolts that don't ever require that to begin with.

  5. #25
    Mabination User Twin has disabled reputation Twin's Avatar
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    I'll take a shot, while i'm here. Before you shoot down my idea, at least see imagine it first.

     Reasoning behind my re-balances choices


    Now to begin my actual idea.

    First.Fix the lag and clean up files and optimize everything. this is a huge step that must be taken. as mabi has better looking and more popular competitors. then greatly fix the servers

    Second. Lets start simple and slow. disregard everything. Nothing matters anymore but good balancing.

    Third. We start with the combat base. This means close combat.



      Close Combat Changes


    Highlight

    Armsman training

    This skill allows human,elfs, and giants receive training to combat their nature fighting disadvantages.

    humans unlock = dual axe / dual mace / 2h weapons with one/dual two-handed hand (like ruairi and dark lord , so milliteans can learn)

    elves unlock = dual swords / dual axe/ dual mace / 2h eapon with one haned / dual 2h swords


    gia unlock = dual sword / dual axe / dual 2h swords/ great weapon with one hand / dual





    point? diversity. gia will still be storngest with melee, elves will be still weakes and human mid. now everyone has more weapon choices.

    oh and elves get the most agility sooo

    attack speed > elf > human > giant
    attack > giant > human elf
    melee range gia > human / elf

    Guard

    Allows tankers to be viable to multipl attackers. YET balances enough to combat 1v1

    strengths
    can take a lot of hits
    can protect allies
    loses no HP(unless your guard is broken )
    allows the player to play counter -defensively while maintaining safe
    very effective against archery when charge is down or archer counter attacks

    weaknesses
    failure to defeat the enemy before your guard breaking will result in poster breaking (stunned) for 10 seconds
    while the enemy geets a free combo chain

    Shield Bash

    Offensive componet to defense and guard
    strength

    basically. you can shield bash someone out of defense or guard faster than normal attack (which is also a treat in my idea as it leads to combos)

    has advance heavy standered during activation / cannot be stunned

    weakness s
    hield bash can be used without a target. so if you fail to land a bas. the enemy can take advantage of this by hammering your guard until it breaks(look at skill link detail within combat idea), as shield bash is your best tool for shield offense

    predictin your enemys shield bash will allow them to easily dodge with evasion

    taking too many hits
    Last edited by Twin; 09-07-2016 at 05:50 AM.



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