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Zid wrote on 2010-10-01 00:10
I hope the bullies learned. Living with the fact you caused someone to die is not something you can shrug off with a regular mind.
Also, if I remember correctly, committing suicide is a choice. Being raped is not.
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-10-01 00:12
Quote from Phunkie;172024:
Yes, you went through all that and you even know what it is to be bullied.
Yet you still call him a pussy.
gg
Sorry people aren't as strong as you.
meh I think I get what you are saying. xP now I sounded like one of those republican extremists that say ppl nowadays r pussies just because they didn't serve in the military and honor their country.
But the thing I am frustrated about is that people already fought for equal rights for homosexuality and yet they don't use it. People could say that I am wrong about them being equal. But nowadays, people thinking that homosexuals don't deserve equal rights are radical extremists. Even though some people may tend to stay away from them, they at least accept them as who they are.
The media is trying to make it sound as if it is a problem of homophobia while it is actually some kids not acting mature enough. The news article even said it, the students did not expect the victim to commit suicide. It wasn't if he received death threats.
The point I'm trying to get across in this point is that the victim suffered because of him being the "new kid" and not homosexual.
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Time wrote on 2010-10-01 00:13
I feel like this might be relevant kinda...Mostly due to the end, it matches with this case but its the earlier one/
[video=youtube;Rz2sri8NjiE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz2sri8NjiE&feature=sub[/video]
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-01 00:14
Quote from Zid;172035:
I hope the bullies learned. Living with the fact you caused someone to die is not something you can shrug off with a regular mind.
Also, if I remember correctly, committing suicide is a choice. Being raped is not.
Example.
You are poor.
You are one of the lucky few who get out of poverty. You strike big with a good company, let's say.
You look back and you blame all poor people for their economic status, because they don't "work hard enough," you say; or perhaps because they aren't as lucky as you.
Honestly, some people are just emotionally weak. It's hard for them to get out of that state of depression or desperation. Someone who has lived through poverty could not possibly blame that poverty on those poor people who already work their asses off to get the minimum wage to feed themselves and their families.
To blame them for not being as lucky as you or because they're not "working hard enough" is arrogant and unrealistic.
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Magenera wrote on 2010-10-01 00:23
Suicide is a culturally a cowardice act. We are brought up on that fact, though I am keen to keep my opinions to myself. I place full blame on the bullies who did this, commit suicide and you are coward, fight back, and you are no better than the bully, do nothing and you are weak, go on a rampage that ends with death, and they call you a monster. Victims are never treated as victims, when it comes to bullying. This is just how are system work, I say those bullies should be charge, jail/ prison, and see how they like it when a 200 pound gorilla wants to make them their little *****.
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Piko wrote on 2010-10-01 00:28
Wow. I bet if I commited suicide right now it would be all over the country at this rate. Like hell I'd commit suicide though.
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Zid wrote on 2010-10-01 00:29
Quote from Phunkie;172042:
Example.
You are poor.
You are one of the lucky few who get out of poverty. You strike big with a good company, let's say.
You look back and you blame all poor people for their economic status, because they don't "work hard enough," you say; or perhaps because they aren't as lucky as you.
Honestly, some people are just emotionally weak sometimes. It's hard for them to get out of that state of depression or desperation. Someone who has lived through poverty could not possibly blame that poverty on those poor people who already work their asses off to get the minimum change to feed themselves and their families.
To blame them for not being as lucky as you is arrogant and unrealistic.
No, I'm not saying it is. Being poor isn't a choice.
Depression isn't a choice either. However, how to deal with it (or being poor/raped) is a choice.
Let's say you were born really poor. Well, then, that's not your fault, I would think. However, how you deal with that is a choice. In a specific closed system of decisions, you can struggle to make a living, or just commit suicide. Whether or not the poor person is depressed and/or emotionally weaker than "this person", it doesn't invalidate the fact that it's still a choice. And choices themselves require mental capabilities.
This boy may have been emotionally weak. Maybe from bullying. Should we blame the bullies for being catalysts to his suicide? Probably. But they're still catalysts. What some people want to do is draw the conclusion that "The bullies are the causes to this boy's suicide." Does this sound stable? Wouldn't that make the term "suicide" redundant?
The difference between "suicide" and "homicide" is who caused it. Suicide is from oneself, while homicide is from others. The boy committed suicide, so obviously he did it to himself. If that was so, it implies there was a choice on his life, entirely based on himself. So it cannot be said the bullies are causes to his death, by the definition of suicide. They possibly are catalysts, but that's it. It's even mentioned in the article "their actions do not constitute a crime". They didn't cause the boy's death. The boy caused his own death. Therefore, his life was in his own hands, and thus it was his choice. He took responsibility when he ended his own life; it can't be said that all the fault lies within the bullies.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-01 00:35
I agree. The boy caused his own death, however the fault doesn't lie within him. It's both the boy's and the bullies' faults, of course.
That's just what I'm trying to tell abc.
We can't just blame the boy for being weak. If so, we also have to blame those people that drove him to this act of desperation.
Nonetheless, depression is something a lot of people take lightly.
"OH I'M SO DEPRESSED."
It can actually be very serious and lead to things like this.
It's just a sad story, really.
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Lan wrote on 2010-10-01 00:37
He's dead, doesn't matter who the blame goes to since the bullies won't get charged. Blunt but true :/
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-10-01 00:42
Quote from Lan;172091:
He's dead, doesn't matter who the blame goes to since the bullies won't get charge. Blunt but true :/
I thought we were talking about the problem in this suicide so that this tragedy? doesn't happen again.
But Lan has a point.
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Rebel wrote on 2010-10-01 01:02
Teens/Gay teens who kill themselves do it because they really see no other means to an ends.
There is no greener grass on the horizon, nothing to look forward to, even the college kid who commit suicide, you'd think like minded adults(they were 18+) would be able to leave well enough alone, he probably had to deal with the bullying long before he made it to college.
But what they did was way beyond bullying, that was terrorism.
At that point, there was nothing he could do, he'd always be "that gay kid who had sex on live stream" (or so he probably felt).
It's sad that some people find solace in college being the time to experiment, then this guys dormmates do this to him.
He probably felt like there was no future for him, he was defamed, his whole future dragged through the mud.
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Hiccup wrote on 2010-10-01 02:19
Quote from Zid;172074:
The difference between "suicide" and "homicide" is who caused it. Suicide is from oneself, while homicide is from others. The boy committed suicide, so obviously he did it to himself. If that was so, it implies there was a choice on his life, entirely based on himself. So it cannot be said the bullies are causes to his death, by the definition of suicide. They possibly are catalysts, but that's it. It's even mentioned in the article "their actions do not constitute a crime". They didn't cause the boy's death. The boy caused his own death. Therefore, his life was in his own hands, and thus it was his choice. He took responsibility when he ended his own life; it can't be said that all the fault lies within the bullies.
But if the bullies never bullied him he wouldn't have gotten to the point to where death is better then living. It was his choice to end his life but the bullies are to blame at least partly. It's not 100% his fault and not 100% the bullies fault. They both have a part in this kid committing suicide whether their actions were constituted as a crime or not. Unless you actually have been in this kids situation you wont really understand. I'm not saying you don't understand but to say it was purely the kids fault seems wrong.
I've been made fun of for being gay (even though im still closeted) practically my whole life. That stuff wears on you every day, and ya I've thought about suicide but I'm also smart enough to know that eventually it will be over if I don't give em the satisfaction of a reply. So I took up some bad habits to get my mind off of the bullies but I'm still alive and kicking so I can't complain. Sometimes death really does look better then having to face constant scrutiny.
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Adelynn wrote on 2010-10-01 04:48
Seeing his picture just makes this even sadder. Such a young face.
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Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-10-01 05:15
Really, have any of you felt the crushing despair?
Sometimes, it really does feel like the only way out.
Think of it like this. You are that kid. Your choices are:
Run [Suicide]
Fight
Talk
Tell [Tattle]
Prettymuch all of these will end very badly for him, if they ever get a whiff of what he did. He would be singled out even more.
If he had someone to pull him out, a distraction to keep him busy, or an interest that could spark up new relationships.
Too bad, at that age, people can only go by labels. Hell, even past high school, all you see are the labels.
'That Gay Kid,' really does hurt sometimes.
(I've been called gay many times, and every time it hurts. Not because they are arrogant, not because they think they can just do anything, its because they think that calling me gay makes them better than me.)
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Taycat wrote on 2010-10-01 05:20
If they said "I didn't know this would happen" then they should be slapped.
I mean, I'd personally go to them and slap them while calling them out. Including every other kid that bullied him.
I swear, I went through bullying like this every day back in middle school. I only got away from it when high school came and they dispersed everyone everywhere. So then, I don't have classes with kids like that. I also intentionally failed 9th grade just so I could get away from them....