Has environmentalism gone too far?

• Intex wrote on 2010-10-05 20:23

  Yes but how does that reduce world population by 10-15% (Bill Gate's goal)? Having 1 child instead of 5 children (most of which die according to Bill Gates) is not going to decrease the population by 700,000 LOL. In other, words, there is porbably something more sinister behind the rest of the population reduction.

  
  Organ donation programs also can't help all the people who need an organ transplant, LOL so useless.
  
  

  What we need to ask ourselves about vaccines though, is, are they really that beneficial to our health? There are much better ways of keeping yourself healthy you know. Now before you burn me as a heretic, please read this article from BBC (Neutral)

  
  Vaccines are there to STOP YOU FROM GETTING A DEADLY DISEASE.
  It's people like you who scream "oh no the vaccines will hurt your kids" that will end up screwing over your kids.
  The reason people are free from debilitating diseases such as polio is because of vaccines.
  Honestly you can be safe without a vaccine but that's only because the vaccine is unlikely to spread to you.
  If everyone else is vaccinated and the disease hits them, they won't end up giving you the disease.
  
  

  Breastfeeding 'prevents baby infections,' research suggests
  Regardless of other factors, such as good healthcare and vaccination programmes, breastfeeding still gives babies a boost, say Greek researchers.

  
  This article is promoting breast feeding (which is really good for baby health).
  I bet a mother without polio antibodies could prevent her child from getting the disease through breast feeding right?
  
  Australia bans flu vaccines in children after vomiting, fevers, seizures
  Again another biased source.
  This whole site is just bashing medicine and saying all the medical programs are corrupt.
  There are so many stupid vaccine scares but no one has found a clear link between the chemical and the issues.
  People started assuming vaccines gave you autism, but children are vaccinated around the same time autism begins to show.
  
  
  Stop trying to say vaccines are pointless.
  It's saved so many lives and people are already researching an HIV vaccine that could save even more.
  The anti-vaccine movement is radical and stupid.
  It's not just a choice that only affects you, you're being completely selfish.
  If you're perfectly healthy and can take the vaccine, please take it, and have your kid take it too.
  Because if you catch the disease and walk around with it, you're infecting the pregnant woman who can't take the vaccine, the old man who cannot take it, the homeless man who cannot afford it.
• Tatsu wrote on 2010-10-05 20:28

  But fear not, because “her last defense has been unleashed,” in the form of a huge worm

  
  
  I was under the impression that Alaya's last method of defense was the summoning of the ultimate beings of the other planets of the solar system to commit mass genocide.
• Infamy wrote on 2010-10-05 20:29
  Lame author is trying to get readers through sensationalism. Lame.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-10-05 20:44

  Quote from SuperSoulful;176422:

  What do vaccines have to do with radical environmentalists?
  Are you attacking the ideas of environmentalists or the people behind them? (i.e. Bill Gates)
  
  There's nothing about vaccination in that article.
  And no, I'm not discounting it as a source, I'm discounting the validity of the argument you are making WITH the source.

  
  
  True, but the person I was responding to said that top scientists are not advocating massive population reduction because of all the "wonderful" things they do such as vaccinating. You catching my drift here?
• Intex wrote on 2010-10-05 20:51

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;176455:

  True, but the person I was responding to said that top scientists are not advocating massive population reduction because of all the "wonderful" things they do such as vaccinating. You catching my drift here?

  
  The wonderful part doesn't require quotation marks.
  Give me the name of a credited top scientist in this day and age who is trying to kill everyone.
  
  I love how you're "addressing" me by being really vague and ignoring the points I make.
• Kueh wrote on 2010-10-05 20:52
  Vaccines are wonderful though.
  
  The article you cited that supposedly refuted the effectiveness of vaccines is just one huge post hoc fallacy.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-10-05 21:13

  Quote from Whyrainfalls;176465:

  Vaccines are wonderful though.
  
  The article you cited that supposedly refuted the effectiveness of vaccines is just one huge post hoc fallacy.

  
  
  Ok, here's a broader overview of vaccinations in general: Evidence-based vaccinations: A scientific look at the missing science behind flu season vaccines
  
  By the way, spell check tells me that "hoc" is not a word. Is it just something you made up or is it some fancy Latin that people use to try to make themselves sound smart?
• Kueh wrote on 2010-10-05 21:16

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;176493:

  By the way, spell check tells me that "hoc" is not a word. Is it just something you made up or is it some fancy Latin that people use to try to make themselves sound smart?

  
  
  It stands for Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
  
  Post hoc ergo propter hoc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  
  I'll edit it to say, "After the fact" fallacy if you prefer.
  
  And that article is not about vaccines in general. That is about why vaccines in general are bad. There is so much evidence to the contrary to that, that it would be a hassle to sift through it at all.
• Intex wrote on 2010-10-05 21:17

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;176493:

  Ok, here's a broader overview of vaccinations in general: Evidence-based vaccinations: A scientific look at the missing science behind flu season vaccines
  
  By the way, spell check tells me that "hoc" is not a word. Is it just something you made up or is it some fancy Latin that people use to try to make themselves sound smart?

  
  Try google Post-hoc analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  Again that's not a reliable source.
  All the article says is that the flu vaccine isn't helpful.
  Thus all vaccines are useless.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-10-05 21:20

  Quote from Intex;176502:

  Try google Post-hoc analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  Again that's not a reliable source.

  
  
  Alright, so what does count as a reliable source? I suppose the answer to that would be any source that you agree with, right? Besides, I doubt you even read the article, in that case, how can you accurately assess the reliability of the source? For that matter have you ever read anything on the site in general?
• Intex wrote on 2010-10-05 21:25

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;176507:

  Alright, so what does count as a reliable source? I suppose the answer to that would be any source that you agree with, right? Besides, I doubt you even read the article, in that case, how can you accurately assess the reliability of the source? For that matter have you ever read anything on the site in general?

  
  First of all the man spends the opening saying there's no hard study and then claims flu shots don't work.
  Afterwards he "offers" $10,000 to anyone who can find some evidence contradicting this fact.
  -More oh my god this isn't science rant-
  -Reasons why people would hide vaccine uselessness-
  Then he explains an experiment and says that the vaccine does not work on the natural strains most of the time.
  -More this is fraud, stealing, etc. talk-
  
  Don't accuse me of not reading the article I would talk about.
  You're the one who can't even watch the full video of Bill Gates TED speech.
  
  And you want to know why its not reliable?
  He sounds okay when talking about the flu vaccine (and is very good at it) but then he says
  

  To top this all off, here's the real kicker of this story: You can beat the minimal protective benefits of vaccines with a simple, low-cost vitamin D supplement. Vitamin D, you see, is the nutrient that activates your immune system to fight off infectious disease. Without it, vaccines hardly work at all.

  
  

  Hilariously, the way to make vaccines work better would be to hand out vitamin D supplements to go along with the shots! Even more hilariously, if people were taking vitamin D supplements, they wouldn't need the vaccine shots in the first place!

  
  By his own logic, we should be giving the people in Africa Vitamin D pills so that they can fight off their AIDS.
  Although you could say this guy is still talking about flu vaccines he doesn't specify and he has been saying "influenza vaccine" for most of the article.
  
  Great "you've" "proven" that flu vaccines are useless.
  So I "guess" all of vaccines are useless too.
  Get "my" drift?
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-10-05 21:58

  Quote from Intex;176511:

  
  
  And you want to know why its not reliable?
  He sounds okay when talking about the flu vaccine (and is very good at it) but then he says
  
  By his own logic, we should be giving the people in Africa Vitamin D pills so that they can fight off their AIDS.
  Although you could say this guy is still talking about flu vaccines he doesn't specify and he has been saying "influenza vaccine" for most of the article.
  
  Great "you've" "proven" that flu vaccines are useless.
  So I "guess" all of vaccines are useless too.
  Get "my" drift?

  
  
  Of course vitamin D is going to help cure AIDS. It boosts the immune system which counteracts what AIDS does in the first place! Oh, and flu vaccines are useless. Many people I know have gotten the flu from the flu vaccine (talk about counterproductive). And if they can't even make good vaccines for flu, then there is no way I'm trusting them with any other disease. Here is an excerpt from an article dealing with how effective vaccines are:
  

  VACCINATION MYTH #2:
  “Vaccines are very effective...”
  ...or are they?
  The medical literature has a surprising number of studies documenting vaccine failure. Measles, mumps, small pox, pertussis, polio and Hib outbreaks have all occurred in vaccinated populations.19,20,21,22,23 In 1989 the CDC reported: “Among school-aged children, [measles] outbreaks have occurred in schools with vaccination levels of greater than 98 percent.24 [They] have occurred in all parts of the country, including areas that had not reported measles for years.”25 The CDC even reported a measles outbreak in a documented 100% vaccinated population.26 A study examining this phenomenon concluded, “The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons.”27 A more recent study found that measles vaccination “produces immune suppression which contributes to an increased susceptibility to other infections.”28 These studies suggest that the goal of complete “immunization” may actually be counter-productive, a notion underscored by instances in which epidemics followed complete immunization of entire countries. Japan experienced yearly increases in small pox following the introduction of compulsory vaccines in 1872. By 1892, there were 29,979 deaths, and all had been vaccinated.29 In the early 1900’s, the Philippines experienced their worst smallpox epidemic ever after 8 million people received 24.5 million vaccine doses (achieving a vaccination rate of 95%); the death rate quadrupled as a result.30 Before England’s first compulsory vaccination law in 1853, the largest two-year smallpox death rate was about 2,000; in 1870-71, England and Wales had over 23,000 smallpox deaths.31 In 1989, the country of Oman experienced a widespread polio outbreak six months after achieving complete vaccination.32 In the U.S. in 1986, 90% of 1300 pertussis cases in Kansas were “adequately vaccinated.”33 72% of pertussis cases in the 1993 Chicago outbreak were fully up to date with their vaccinations.34

  
  SOURCE: INTRODUCTION
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-10-05 22:01
  I've played Super Mega Worm. Saving the environment is just a simple plot device used to add flavor to an otherwise bland violently destructive Ipod/Iphone game. There's no secret message here.
• Hiccup wrote on 2010-10-05 22:04
  I wanna be a super bad-ass mega worm!
• Intex wrote on 2010-10-05 22:18

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;176548:

  Of course vitamin D is going to help cure AIDS. It boosts the immune system which counteracts what AIDS does in the first place! Oh, and flu vaccines are useless. Many people I know have gotten the flu from the flu vaccine (talk about counterproductive). And if they can't even make good vaccines for flu, then there is no way I'm trusting them with any other disease. Here is an excerpt from an article dealing with how effective vaccines are:
  
  SOURCE: INTRODUCTION

  
  
  Now you're just doing this on purpose :T