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Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-06 23:25
It's like going to a baseball game and yelling, "GOD SHOULD KILL DEREK JETER."
It isn't allowed there so it shouldn't be allowed outside of funerals.
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Arsik wrote on 2010-10-06 23:27
It is harassment. As I said, the church went to this funerals specifically to attack the fallen soldiers and their families because the church somehow got the idea that God is killing soldiers because we have some tolerance for homosexuality in this country (can't really say we have a huge tolerance, what with only 5 states that allow gay marriage, 11 more that allow civil unions, and you get people that act like this). If the church decided to hold a rally on the same day as the funeral, in a completely different location than the funeral procession, then there wouldn't be a problem, but when you get people egging and insulting you and your family, even provoking a physical reaction, then that classifies as harassment, and thus becomes illegal.
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Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-10-06 23:28
Quote from Timexpo;177634:
Isnt this harassment/disturbing the peace though?
And if we change out the whole sexual part, lets say, and it was white people only, protesting at a colored persons funeral, what would happen then?
Well technically, any demonstration/protest would disturb the peace. But really, I don't know the
exact details of the protest in this situation, from what I know, all they're doing is picketing, so until I get more information, I'll side with them here.
It doesn't matter who is protesting what, in this country, you can protest
anything you want, no matter
who you are. While I am against racism, I will side with a racist's wish to protest another race/culture as long as he/she is doing it peacefully and not breaking any crimes.
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Time wrote on 2010-10-06 23:29
Quote from Spartaaaaa;177646:
Well technically, any demonstration/protest would disturb the peace. But really, I don't know the exact details of the protest in this situation, from what I know, all they're doing is picketing, so until I get more information, I'll side with them here.
It doesn't matter who is protesting what, in this country, you can protest anything you want, no matter who you are. While I am against racism, I will side with a racist's wish to protest another race/culture as long as he/she is doing it peacefully and not breaking any crimes.
Is saying thank god for dead soldiers, And god hates fags, peaceful?
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-06 23:32
Quote from Spartaaaaa;177646:
Well technically, any demonstration/protest would disturb the peace. But really, I don't know the exact details of the protest in this situation, from what I know, all they're doing is picketing, so until I get more information, I'll side with them here.
It doesn't matter who is protesting what, in this country, you can protest anything you want, no matter who you are. While I am against racism, I will side with a racist's wish to protest another race/culture as long as he/she is doing it peacefully and not breaking any crimes.
Granted.
However, not at the funeral of a black leader.
If any of these people protesting Obama's funeral, saying that he was a n*gger and that God hates n*ggers, they'd all be arrested. No doubt.
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Axx wrote on 2010-10-06 23:35
Is saying thank god for dead soldiers, And god hates fags, peaceful?
Yes, it is, even if you don't like it. That's the whole point!
They've done this near a Florida funeral before. They applied for a demonstration permit with the city and were the bare minimum legal distance away from the funeral. They did NOT go into the funeral like barging in to a mass. They picketed loudly across the street. Technically, they [argue that they] can do it. The Supreme Court will have the final say in it.
If any of these people protesting Obama's funeral, saying that he was a n*gger and that God hates n*ggers, they'd all be arrested. No doubt.
No, they wouldn't. And if they were, you bet it'd be plastered all over the news as an abuse of police rights.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-06 23:38
Quote from Axx;177659:
No, they wouldn't. And if they were, you bet it'd be plastered all over the news as an abuse of police rights.
President of the United States.
Using the word n*gger.
Bad reputation.
Oh, they definitely would. No doubt about it.
Hope this stupid practice of these "God-loving" idiots gets outlawed.
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paladin wrote on 2010-10-06 23:39
Its like the moskue near ground zero
Its may be legal
They have the right to do it
But it makes you look like a complete ass and jerk
It might be there rite
But who the right mind mocks the dead, one of solider who died in basically one of the most respected jobs in history.
And then gets pissed when the people are angry
I thou religon respected the dead too.
And you wonder why some people refrain from this kind of stuff
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Time wrote on 2010-10-06 23:42
Quote from paladin;177671:
Its like the moskue near ground zero
Its may be legal
They have the right to do it
But it makes you look like a complete ass and jerk
It might be there rite
But who the right mind mocks the dead, one of solider who died in basically one of the most respected jobs in history.
And then gets pissed when the people are angry
I thou religon respected the dead too.
And you wonder why some people refrain from this kind of stuff
Off topic: But...The mosque shouldnt be mocking the dead, not all muslims caused 9/11, muslims died in 9/11...Points at your thread cause all this has already been said...
http://mabination.com/mabination-community/general-discussions/news/7297-mega-mosque-near-ground-zero.html
This is on the other hand mocking the dead, because they are AT a dead soldiers funeral, saying that its the fault of homosexuality that they died.
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Axx wrote on 2010-10-06 23:43
Quote from Phunkie;177666:
President of the United States.
Using the word n*gger.
Bad reputation.
Oh, they definitely would. No doubt about it.
Hope this stupid practice of these "God-loving" idiots gets outlawed.
Are we living in the same United States? People who actually run for office call him Muslim, racist, and non-American. You don't think that people call Obama a n*gger?
I agree with you that they're in the moral wrong, but I can't say they're in the legal wrong. Not with my stance on other free-speech issues. And no, I firmly believe the government should not legislate morality.
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paladin wrote on 2010-10-06 23:44
Quote from Timexpo;177678:
Off topic: But...The mosque shouldnt be mocking the dead, not all muslims caused 9/11, muslims died in 9/11...Points at your thread cause all this has already been said...http://mabination.com/mabination-community/general-discussions/news/7297-mega-mosque-near-ground-zero.html
I just mean to compare
You cant argue how legal it is
But morally i cant say
Am surpised that its a church of all things
Edit
I wont be surpised if that church suddenly has a drop in membership....
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-06 23:47
Quote from Axx;177681:
Are we living in the same United States? People who actually run for office call him Muslim, racist, and non-American. You don't think that people call Obama a n*gger?
I agree with you that they're in the moral wrong, but I can't say they're in the legal wrong. Not with my stance on other free-speech issues. And no, I firmly believe the government should not legislate morality.
To do it so publicly and so proudly in front of his funeral would constitute as some form of harassment. To his family, to his loved ones...
It just bothers me so much that these people get away with so much.
But I see your point. To outlaw these peaceful protests would mean to outlaw hate speech, which would lead to outlawing other forms of freedom of speech.
I sometimes hate America for the so many freedoms it offers its citizens. In Europe, denying that the Holocaust ever happened gets you arrested on the spot.
Why? Because it's insensitive to the families and descendants of those victims. And you know what? I don't entirely disagree with that. It should be a crime to be that low, that insensitive.
But yeah, censorship isn't ever the right way to fight bad-doers. The truth is.
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Axx wrote on 2010-10-06 23:58
Quote from Phunkie;177692:
To do it so publicly and so proudly in front of his funeral would constitute as some form of harassment. To his family, to his loved ones...
I think that right there constitutes the father's argument to the Supreme Court. I certainly don't disagree with anything in your post. But to be confrontational, it seems that the things we're all against, the Supreme Court isn't:
On Wednesday, the justices seemed to agree that a general protest sign, such as "Stop the War" or even "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" would be protected as free speech. snip snip It will be several months before the court rules in Snyder vs. Phelps.
Supreme Court Justices Appear Ready To Rule Against Funeral Pickets - latimes.com
AKA, it's the personal attacks on the family/soldier in particular they'll rule against. But I don't think it would apply similarly for your Obama example, because Obama is a public figure and you can slander them a hellofalot more.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-07 00:03
Love the questions they asked Phelps. Really good ones, IMO.
Kagan quickly pressed her. Would it be permissible, she asked, for the protesters to pick out "a wounded soldier and follow him around," holding "offensive and outrageous signs" near his home and calling him a "war criminal?" In such a case, "does he have a claim for intentional infliction of emotional distress?" Kagan said.
Suppose protesters stopped a grandmother whose son had been killed in the war, and they "speak to her in the most vile terms" and say they were "happy" he was killed. Is this protected free speech? Alito asked.
Hope they do away with these criminals.
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-10-07 00:38
Yea, it is no question that it is disrespectful to the family of the dead soldier. However, that isn't the issue here.
The real issue is the right to Freedom of Speech. If the Supreme Court rule that this speech is not protected by Free Speech laws because of the sole purpose that it is disrespectful, it will definitely have a legal impact on future Free Speech cases. Can the court legally define what disrespectful would mean? The speech performed by such protesters do not fall under the "Clear and Present" danger category either.
For almost every speech out there, there is always someone out there who feels like they have been disrespected. Should all those speeches be shut down as well? Is there a number of people that feels disrespected on such a speech before it is illegal? You can apply that logic to practically all speeches, including every post on this forum/internet, leading to mass censorship everywhere. What about non-verbal speeches that may seem disrespectful to people? Would that count as well?
The true test of Free Speech is allowing speech that you strongly opposed to, to be said.