Some questions on Rundal Siren dungeon

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Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-04-22 19:44

1. Where is the best place to go looking for the strange pass?

2. I've heard high-rank defence is a must. How much defence/protection do you need in order to be able to clear this dungeon effectively?

3. What other important skills must you have?

4. I want to know more about critical and Sirens. How much % must be listed in your character info window in order to get a good chance at Siren to drop masks?

5. I've been to a lot of Rundal Adv. parties in the past, but hardly to Rundal Lower, so I lack experience in this part. What tactics are suggested against Sahagins and Knolls?

6. How does adv. magic (specifically Thunder) fare in this dungeon?
Cannibal wrote on 2010-04-22 19:47

Sorry, I can't answer 1-5, BUT I can answer 6.

I've never done regular Siren, but I've done a few guildruns in Siren HM. Me and a guldy used thunder in quite a few rooms, and I found that it had potential. I think his is rank 2, mine was D. We were able to clear a spawn with a few charges each.
Cannibal wrote on 2010-04-22 19:47

Sorry, I can't answer 1-5, BUT I can answer 6.

I've never done regular Siren, but I've done a few guildruns in Siren HM. Me and a guldy used thunder in quite a few rooms, and I found that it had potential. I think his is rank 2, mine was D. We were able to clear a spawn with a few charges each.
pataterose wrote on 2010-04-22 19:49

1. fishing them in emain or finding in siren.

2. not necessary if you have a way of handling bsr without tanking.

3. for efficient run, high rank wm for about any room, and high bolt or adv magic for bsr.

4. 90%+ will max you chances.

5. shagin with bows multi aggro, the other don't so take care of stuff in this order: flying sword, sahagin with bow, sahagin with no bow, knoll. for full room or knoll just wm spam.

6. decent rank thunder pwns siren (rB+ is enough for most, while r9 starts to be efficient)
Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-04-22 19:53

Quote from pataterose;15221:
4. 90%+ will max you chances.

How do you even get that much?!
What possible equipment set(s) is recommended for that much critical?
pataterose wrote on 2010-04-22 19:55

stiff tail cap + upgraded bipennis with stiff enchant should be enough.
Bankai231 wrote on 2010-04-22 19:58

Would it be good for A stiff cap and 2 stiff broads? or even two stiff daggers?
pataterose wrote on 2010-04-22 20:02

if dagger are upgraded for 50 ish crit, +10 from stiff on dagger, +10 fomr stiff tail cap, you would need ~20 crit from stats and title or other enchant.
EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-04-22 20:09

Also, if for some reason you have a really high smash rank and/or high base damage, you should invest in a set of Hamster Hunter-White Spider set of equipment to reduce your max damage so you can get a few more chances at smashing the siren.
Justified wrote on 2010-04-23 00:07

I run the entire dungeon with 2 Defense/1 Protection and I do fine. Because most of the mobs in Siren are weak (Skeletons, Sahagins, Flying Swords, Knolls are all 1-2 Windmills) I just stay in deadly the entire time anyways. For BSRs, I just Smash>Firebolt while a pet distracts the other nearby ones. If it's too messy to Smash, I use Chaincast Icebolt.

The AI is nothing new for any of the mobs. Knolls have windmill and Sahagins move pretty fast, but otherwise it's all the typical humanoid pattern.

Critting the siren should be fairly easy. My full Crit set reaches ~154% (Age 17+). A Dagger or Bipennis will rack up over 50%, Stiff for +10%, Bridge title for +8%, then toss in your base stats and a couple Fearless/Thief/Sharp enchants on the rest of your gear. Crit-modded Dagger and Bipennis are weak enough that you'd have around 6 tries to Crit without killing the Siren with Rank 1 Smash, unless you have like 250+ Str or something. Just remember that it has to be in combat stance or using a skill when it gets Crit, or else the mask won't drop.
Aubog007 wrote on 2010-04-23 01:39

I ran Siren with Rank 6 WM 6 Crit and B CM (no cap releases in G2)
I did fine. (had to ice counter the rats...)
I facepalmed when i read the update for S3
Mabinogi - FREE Fantasy Life

The key here is to KNOW the AI of the enemy.
Master the AI and you master the dungeon.
Chillax wrote on 2010-04-23 06:20

When I ran Siren, I had 200+ str and upgraded Glads, and I ohkoed pretty much every monster in the regular rooms with Windmill. I don't think the regular rooms should give you much trouble.

I used Icebolt on BSRs, but Firebolt is more efficient imo.

Like everyone said, Stiff/Lizard Bipennis with Stiff/Blunt hat/helmet should get you 85% crit. To get the rest of the 5% crit should be easy.
Zid wrote on 2010-04-23 16:05

Quote from Yogurticecream;15211:
1. Where is the best place to go looking for the strange pass?

Easiest way is to fish one up from any water source of Emain Macha area. Fastest way is from Sahagin drops in Rundal Lower/Siren.

Quote from Yogurticecream;15211:
2. I've heard high-rank defence is a must. How much defence/protection do you need in order to be able to clear this dungeon effectively?

This is mainly for Black Ship Rats. These little buggers multi-aggro, run fast (since they're using the running mice animation), and have lvl 2 melee/ranged passive defenses. The Def/Prot recommendation is because each of the rats hit 30-60 dmg per hit, for a max of 3 hits in a combo. Mana Shield can be a substitute if you have the MP and potions to back it up. If you can, try using the tactic of charging Icebolts (r9+) after each Icebolt shot while avoiding other rats' aggro radius. Use pets if multi-aggro occurs.

Quote from Yogurticecream;15211:
3. What other important skills must you have?

Windmill is fine for everything else. Sahagin Fighters might be too fast for Windmill if you lag badly though.

Quote from Yogurticecream;15211:
4. I want to know more about critical and Sirens. How much % must be listed in your character info window in order to get a good chance at Siren to drop masks?

You need at least 61% Critical rate to have a chance of landing a Critical on a Siren (30% Protection). At most, 90% Critical is recommended for the cap 30% Critical rate.

Easiest way is to upgrade a Bipennis for maximum upgrade. 160, 168, or 180 upgrade paths for Bipennis yields 65% Critical alone, which means already a 5% chance of landing a Critical Hit on a Siren. Though you would want 180 for the least amount of damage, for more chances to Smash the Siren.

Add Stiff/Lizard to the Bipennis and wear a Stiff Tail Cap, that would be 85%. The extra 5% needed for a 90% rate will come from your stats.

Quote from Yogurticecream;15211:
5. I've been to a lot of Rundal Adv. parties in the past, but hardly to Rundal Lower, so I lack experience in this part. What tactics are suggested against Sahagins and Knolls?

Regular melee Sahagins share the AI as Shadow Fighters and light-armored Skeletons, meaning they sometimes will automatically attack the second they aggro, and they sometimes can also continuously attack the target instead of switching to skills. The rest of the time, they act like Goblin/Skeleton AIs. Occasionally, Rundal Lower Sahagins can Windmill (also rumors of N+Windmill, but never seen it).

Knolls, same AI as Ratmen. However, they take about an extra second to cancel Smash.

Quote from Yogurticecream;15211:
6. How does adv. magic (specifically Thunder) fare in this dungeon?

Fairly well. You just need about... r9, I think, to start 1-2 shotting things with fully charged Thunder. It works well against Black Ship Rats.