Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-27 17:30
Quote from Xiyamae;196424:
I bet you're some backwards devout.
On topic.
wolfram wrote on 2010-10-27 17:38
Replying to the first post.
Your hardline approach to "fixing" America has left some very clear facts out.
1. Israel faces more threats then we as a sovereign nation then United States does on a world-wide basis, hence they need that wall as a preventative measure. They are probably the most hated country (opinion). Granted I'm not saying we're perfectly safe, but America mostly faces illegal immigration from the Southern Border. What we need is more enforcement officers pursuing illegal immigration cases until we can make illegal immigration unprofitable for illegals to come into this country and making it unprofitable for the companies hiring illegals. Until then illegal immigration will continue. A wall will not stop money from flowing across borders.
p.s. China's walls are centuries old and have no relevant value to your argument.
2. A moratorium of no immigration what-so-ever is a really bad idea. Legal immigration was implemented as a process to recruit the best and brightest from outside the United States. I personally have no problems with legal immigrants making their lives within the United States. They have demonstrated the will power and the knowledge to pursue a legal way to gain residence within the United States and that should not be stopped. Every year there is immigration quota, aside from people registering that they face present harm if they are to be returned to their country of origin (i.g refugee of wars). Every year that quota is filled with scientist, doctors, families, engineers, etc. etc. They bring a valuable contribution to the United States of America.
2a. I already address illegal immigration at 1. so I shall not do so here.
3. Citizenship by Birthrite came about long before the 14th Amendment was ever passed. It came from the English Imperial days, starting around 1608 and the desire of the Empire for those born within the realm to be subjects of the Crown. The concept carried over to the United States.
The author of the 14th Amendment Citizenship Clause, Senator Jacob M. Howard, stated, in reference to the Amendment, “This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the family of ambassadors, or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.â€
It seems most likely that the amendment was not nor does it necessitate granting birthright citizenship to the children of illegal aliens. Just to make it clear, the original intent of the 14th amendment, as stated by the person that wrote it, never intended to grant citizenship by Birthrite to illegal aliens or any person(s) that didn't reside permanently in the United States and was not subject to its jurisdiction. Notice that legal immigrants do reside here legally and their children born within the United States shall be granted citizenship due to them being under United States jurisdiction.
Hence your argument of the 14th amendment being repealed is just plainly unneeded. What is needed is a federal mandate and will actually enforce this section of the 14th amendment.
4. While I do agree on a Flat tax of 10% on all residents in the United States. A VAT is just a bad idea. VAT is a Value Added Tax, basically a National Sales Tax that is added on at every level of production that is ultimately passed on down to the consumers. We all know that companies never pay their taxes, thier taxes get pushed on down to the consumers as higher prices to cover those taxes.
A flat tax of 10% would be a much better plan since it is simple and would let us keep more of our wealth to do what we want with it.
5. I do agree that Obamacare is more of a hindrance then helping, but you should really include reason as to why its not helping. The reason health care insurance cost keep going up higher and higher is because governments have these mandatory coverages that insurance companies have to carry. Since they are forced to carry more risk in insuring these mandatory coverages, load and behold, the prices shoot up. With all the new mandatory coverages that Obamacare is mandating which translate into insurance companies carrying more risk, forcing them to raise prices to keep up to cover cost. Btw, Obamacare never really addresses the issue of Healthcare cost, its really a Health Insurance Cost. Big Difference there.
6. I do agree with this statement. All jobs should be earned upon merit base competitions/performances and not to fill a quota of a certain race/gender/sexual orientation, etc. etc. The best person available should get the job. Period.
7. America has interests worldwide. We just cannot ignore the world and go back into isolationism. Even in Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other places, the United States has an interest in those country either militarily, economically, or treaty-base. We do and should have a presence there to protect our interest. Democracy is a great thing. I believe that everyone wants democracy in some form or another. What you have to understand is that democracy as the United States sees it is so far from what they have always lived under. These transition periods are never easy but things always turn around if the people are totally committed. Look at Iraq for example. They're finally starting to get it together after 5+ years of dragging feet cause of the old traditional system.
8. Social Security needs to change for future beneficiaries. Current and soon to be current beneficiaries benefits should not be changed. The ones ready to start drawing from the SS funds have already paid a significant amount into the SS fund and should be rewarded as such. It is the future beneficiaries that the system needs to be changed for or abolished. An individualized investment base fund on the S&P 500 or such standard or a complete undoing of the SS system and leaving us future SS beneficiaries to establish our own retirement funds with government backed plans such as Roth IRA/IRA would work.
TL;DR:Don't touch SS for the old people, they already paid in, change it for the younger people who have time to take advantage of the changes.
9. The real blame here is the Unions that have infiltrated the public sector and set up these pension plans. Originally created so they could compete with the private sector in offering benefits. Once again, the solution is simple. Once a pension is paid into and earned, it should not and cannot be denied. What we can do is deny the pension to any future public government worker setting them up with the same government backed IRA and such forth as with the SS plan. To to this though, we shall have to break the unions hold on the public sector.
10. A voting restriction is just plain not a good idea. How someone votes is their own personal business! How is it a conflict of interest if you personally have no idea how that person voted? Government worker or not, there is a reason why we vote every year with secret ballots. It is your own personal business what and who you vote for. You can't put a restriction on voting just because they happen to vote and work in the public sector.
What your going on is that public sector always votes for the projects, that they always vote for the tax increase, that they always vote for the democrat. Those are all assumptions and opinions that you have formed.
11. While welfare can be abused, there are a good programs out there. Ending them without a back up plan would throw many Americans into even deeper poverty then they already are. While i do say welfare needs reform they should come under the programs as a "Are you improving your life?" process, with results that back it up. It should be a hand up into getting families out of poverty and not a hand out. Basically you should be maintaining a steady job or seriously looking for you and show progress that you are working as hard as you can to get out and not depend on a government paycheck.
12. Anti-dysgenic is pro-eugenic. Dysgenic is the antonym of Eugenic, and since your not dysgenic then you most certainly are pro-eugenic. About this minority Elite society your spouting about that is striving to control the masses. Where do they come from? Yale, Harvard, all those elitist schools right? Half of the CEO's of the top 500 Fortune Companies are from State Universities. It is mostly left-leaning individuals that attend said elite schools. Also there have been studies that if you go the Elite Schools, your performance actually levels off and does not improve. So why are the Elite Schools so good? Cause they have a great network. That's right networking. They already know the people at the top, so they can get you started with a leg up above the people that didn't' attend said elite schools.
I know many and am a business owner myself and if you talk to us, we don't care what degree you have or where you get it. Unless your an engineer, doctor, dentist, or some specialized position. All we want to know is do you have a degree. Why? Cause it tells us, you went through the grindstone and you was willing to do. :D. It shows dedication.
Endowments means nothing except that the alumni donated a sum of money to the school, get over it. its their money, let them choose what they want to use it on. Colleges are there to make a profit, so i do agree with defunding them and increasing government grants but leaving the loans to the banking sector.
13. What do agricultural subsidies have to do with food additives and substitutes? I can agree Agricultural Subsidies needs to end.
Agricultural subsidies actually turn family farms into big business. It provides the funds for family farms to grow and be powered by marketing consultants, computers, and college educated farmers. With subsidies they are theses farms are bringing in over 250k a year, which labels them as large family farms. I'm pretty sure with all this technology and education they will be fine without subsidiaries.
Now onto food additives/substitutes. Companies use them because they are cheaper then the original products that the replaced. Simple as that. Its to make a profit. By removing the subsidies, farmers have to grow more to make the same amount of money. Supply goes up, prices come down, then companies either switch back to a cheaper source or they lose profits.
14. Diversity Programs are a waste of time in many people's eyes. But its not all about the "white men". Most Americans do know how to treat other people. Granted there will always be a few loose screws but it is up for the victim(s) to step up and say something about it. It is not taking a shot at white men since every one is required to attend. White, Black, Asian, Female, Male. Everyone. Its there in case it does happen, which it does.
Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-27 17:47
Nice reply, wolfram!
Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-10-27 21:48
You forgot about step #15: Have the government actually follow the Constitution.
abc33kr wrote on 2010-10-27 22:23
I wonder if sparta will become friends with maximus. I would love it if they do.
Athde wrote on 2010-10-27 22:25
Quote from abc33kr;196641:
I wonder if sparta will become friends with maximus. I would love it if they do.
I was thinking about that also... More debate threads though which means more times of me trying not to comment but end up doing so anyways. XD
abc33kr wrote on 2010-10-27 22:27
Quote from Athde;196643:
I was thinking about that also... More debate threads though which means more times of me trying not to comment but end up doing so anyways. XD
xP u can hide in falias if you want.
Athde wrote on 2010-10-27 22:33
Quote from abc33kr;196644:
xP u can hide in falias if you want.
I would if Nuadha wasnt such a giant D*** about things >.>
I also cant stand His and Morrighan's bickering!
I mean srsly have you ever HEARD two GODS Bicker? They just keep raising their voices until the ground starts rumbling >.>
"And that kids is where thunder comes from!"
Magenera wrote on 2010-10-27 23:17
Quote from Maximus;196335:
You're clearly still too young to understand what I wrote. What exactly is 'insane' about it?
And Falsetto, I'm not sure what crap news has to do with this thread.
Adelynn: It's called being a Libertarian.
Your plans is insane, and falls more in line of a political suicide.
I might be young, but do realize the largest lobbyist group is for the Social Security and Medicare. Not going to happen, be more of a giant backward step seeing how their was no retirement plan before it, and if you where a widow you basically had to live with your child, in order to maintain a living. Cost of living has increase exponentially compared to the 1930's. Think it's hard enough to support 4 people in a household, try another with growing medical bills.
You have no counter for the removal of Federal Loans and grants, to which I assure you, those who are in college relies on them to stay in school. So basically it again would be a step backwards as now you have to be rich in order to afford to go to college,unless you are saying free state college would take its' place.
Abuse of welfare is in a minority not the majority, same thing all this did was be one step backwards, and damage the lower-class. Turning us to having a higher rate of crime.
Your plan is a set back, and actually hurts America more so than actually help it. Not to mention it would create a obvious divide between the the upper-class, and the worker/ lower class. Because the middle Class at this point would be non-existent. Also read Who Rules America, by Domhoff or go search it up on the internet, here's a link (
Who Rules America? Power, Politics, & Social Change).
Hiccup wrote on 2010-10-28 02:02
Quote from Phunkie;196331:
No thanks.
ILLEGAL ALIEN! BANBAN
Omegatronic wrote on 2010-10-28 17:55
Step one to "saving America": Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a life time. Make changes to education. K-8 focus on ethics/morality, math, logic, personal finance, communication skills (reading, writing, verbal). By "teaching our children to fish" we will avoid having to "give them a fish".
Step two: See step one.
Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-10-28 21:22
Quote from abc33kr;196641:
I wonder if sparta will become friends with maximus. I would love it if they do.
I would have friended him if he didn't get banned so fast. What did he even get banned for anyway? I find myself to be just as "controversial" as he is, but I'm still fine...
Chillax wrote on 2010-10-28 22:01
Quote from Spartaaaaa;197457:
I would have friended him if he didn't get banned so fast. What did he even get banned for anyway? I find myself to be just as "controversial" as he is, but I'm still fine...
Look at all his posts.
Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-28 22:34
Quote from Spartaaaaa;197457:
I would have friended him if he didn't get banned so fast. What did he even get banned for anyway? I find myself to be just as "controversial" as he is, but I'm still fine...
In a way, he was indeed similar to you.
In debates, both of you bring up crazy articles and crazy points, yet you don't go ahead to defend them when you're proven wrong.
However, unlike you, this guy was just foul. You're a little more good-spirited than he was and much less arrogant than he. Oh and you don't steal blog posts and claim them as your own.
Ultimately, the reason why he was banned was because he made a thread targeting one of our members negatively.
Magenera wrote on 2010-10-31 19:39
Spartaa is controversial, when did that happen? Thought he/she was fine, then again I can't seem to anything controversial unless it is pretty much in my face.