Hailstorm or Blaze?

• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-11-09 00:20
  Well you see, I know g13 is like...months if not weeks away (expecting late December), but I like to plan these things ahead of time. Anyway, I am currently a blaze mage with rank 1 blaze and find it pretty epic.
  
  *BTW I'm like 14 so the math "may" be a little off, but I'm like 99.9% sure its all correct. Honors Math FTW :awesome:*
  
  Blaze's Current Damage (Rank 1+Full Charge+Rank 1 Magic Mastery+600 INT)
  1600 Non-Crit (No Knockback + Combat Wand)
  7200 Non-Crit (Knockback + Combat Wand)
  
  2400 Crit (No Knockback + Combat Wand + Rank 1 Critical Hit)
  18000 Crit (Knockback + Combat Wand + Rank 1 Critical Hit)
  
  YouTube - Mabinogi Blaze Master (Ruairi Server) <---Video Proves My Math
  
  666 Non-Crit (No Knockback + Elemental Wand)
  3000 Non-Crit (Knockback + Elemental Wand)
  
  1665 Crit (No Knockback + Elemental Wand + Rank 1 Critical Hit)
  7500 (Knockback + Elemental Wand + Rank 1 Critical Hit)
  
  Blaze's Mana Use For Full Charge=66
  
  So right now while using a Combat wand my damage is epic, but I do hate not being able to use my thunder or fireball. As you know, in g13 Blaze gets nerfed by 25% and hailstorm is released. That brings me to the question of if I should derank blaze to 6 when g13 comes out and get that 242 AP back to spend on Hailstorm. Let me compare Hailstorms damage with Blaze's g13 damage.
  
  Blaze's G13 Damage (Rank 1+Full Charge+Rank 1 Magic Mastery+600 INT)
  1200 Non-Crit (No Knockback + Combat Wand)
  5400 Non-Crit (Knockback + Combat Wand)
  
  1800 Crit (No Knockback + Combat Wand + Rank 1 Critical Hit)
  13500 Crit (Knockback + Combat Wand + Rank 1 Critical Hit)
  
  499.5 Non-Crit (No Knockback + Elemental Wand)
  2250 Non-Crit (Knockback + Elemental Wand)
  
  1248.75 Crit (No Knockback + Elemental Wand + Rank 1 Critical Hit)
  5625 (Knockback + Elemental Wand + Rank 1 Critical Hit)
  
  Blaze's Mana Use For Full Charge=66
  
  As you can see the 25% nerf reduced our current damage to the damage of around our current rank 5 blaze. Also many blazers will be using a combat wand if they want good damage which hinders them from using Thunder, Fireball, and Ice Spear. The 66 mana is a little pricey as well if you need full charges repeatedly (Peaca, Hardmode SMs, Golden Apple, etc). And you know that the mp loss after removing you wand isn't a good thing either. Now we gets to look at Hailstorm's damage
  
  Hailstorm's Damage (With rank 1 Magic Mastery,Rank 1 Crit, 600 INT, And A Full Charged Crystal)
  
  *The New INT formula would add 30% to hailstorm's damage with 600 INT (The int needed to get blaze's max damage). These all assume the caster has 600 INT*
  
  *This person with rank 1 Hailstorm did a study that shows you can launch 6 full charged hailstorm crystals, so I will total up the damage after I do the individual crystals.*
  
  YouTube - ??????????????????? <---The Study
  
  1300-1950 Non-Crit (Rank F Ice Mastery) For 1 Crystal
  3250-4875 Crit (Rank F Ice Mastery) For 1 Crystal
  
  7800-11700 Total Damage If None Of The Crystals Crit (Rank F Ice mastery)
  19500-29250 Total Damage For If All 6 Crystals Crit (Rank F Ice mastery)
  
  Mana Used = 57.7
  
  Now Let's Look At It With Rank 1 Ice Mastery
  
  1450-2175 Non-Crit (Rank 1 Ice Mastery) For 1 Crystal
  3625-5437.5 Crit (Rank 1 Ice Mastery) For 1 Crystal
  
  8700-13050 Total Damage If None Of The Crystals Crit (Rank 1 Ice mastery)
  21750-32625 Total Damage For If All 6 Crystals Crit (Rank 1 Ice mastery)
  
  Mana Used = 46.16 (Rank 1 Ice Mastery Takes off 20%)
  
  From all of the math it seems that deranking my blaze to stick its ap into hailstorm doesn't seem like a bad idea. Hailstorm did more damage than blaze in nearly every category, and while some people may argue Blaze has a greater DPS than Hailstorm, (O.o I'm sorry, i can't do any more math tonight) the versatility that a trinity staff gives by being able to use all of the adv magics and not taking your mana when you take it off makes up for it. A con of the trinity staff is that you lose your shield, but unlike blaze you are not required to get right up in a monsters face. So even though from my math, I pretty much answered my own question. 1.) do you think i should derank blaze to get ap for hailstorm and also because of the fact that I can't use blaze with the trinity staff. 2.) Now which spell do you people think is better. Also feel free to check my math, but i'm pretty sure it is all correct.
  :awesome:
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-11-09 00:52
  I don't mean to double post, but can a moderator please put this into the mabinogi talk section. Idk if it belongs here or there.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-11-09 01:45
  People call hailstorm the best skill for DPS in 1vs.1 fights.
• Okami wrote on 2010-11-09 02:14

  Quote from Tatsigi;209052:

  I don't mean to double post, but can a moderator please put this into the mabinogi talk section. Idk if it belongs here or there.

  
  
  You're asking for some questions though, so it seems logical here. xD
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-11-09 02:17
  lawl, ok :)
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-11-09 02:21
  Personally, I always thought 1vs.1 type of skills aren't as good as aoe attacks. So I would say to rank blaze over hailstorm.
  
  But then again, blaze gets nerfed.
  
  IMO, you should rank fireball. One full charge at r1 can wipe out all the mobs in avon stage missions since the mobs are ice elemental.
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-11-09 02:25

  Quote from abc33kr;209229:

  Personally, I always thought 1vs.1 type of skills aren't as good as aoe attacks. So I would say to rank blaze over hailstorm.
  
  But then again, blaze gets nerfed.
  
  IMO, you should rank fireball. One full charge at r1 can wipe out all the mobs in avon stage missions since the mobs are ice elemental.

  
  
  With the explosion nerf and the upcoming g13 nerf blaze won't do much again mobs, and fireball is a few ranks away from done :)
• radionoise wrote on 2010-11-09 05:59
  I was wondering, does Hailstorm ignore protection for calculating critical chance? Intermediate magic and other skills such as windmill, crash shot, etc do so because they are AOE. Hailstorm, however, isn't exactly AOE in the traditional sense...
  
  Can anyone confirm whether or not it does ignore protection for critical chance? I was hoping the video you posted with zombies (they have really high protection) would clear my doubts, but either the resolution isn't too high or my eyes aren't good enough to discern whether or not the skill is able to critical after so many uses.
• Xemnas wrote on 2010-11-09 06:51

  Quote from abc33kr;209229:

  
  
  IMO, you should rank fireball. One full charge at r1 can wipe out all the mobs in avon stage missions since the mobs are ice elemental.

  
  
  really? If they are I'm so glad I kept my massive ice elemental.
  
  Edit: not trying to derail the thread, I just like knowing elements of monsters so I don't get owned.
  
  Edit2: what type of magic is blaze by the way, it's not tier 2 because fireball is the int magic for fire.
• Jando wrote on 2010-11-09 07:10
  I think you should do it. Tier 3 Magic is going to outclass Tier 2 Magic one way or another.
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-11-09 11:58

  Quote from radionoise;209500:

  I was wondering, does Hailstorm ignore protection for calculating critical chance? Intermediate magic and other skills such as windmill, crash shot, etc do so because they are AOE. Hailstorm, however, isn't exactly AOE in the traditional sense...
  
  Can anyone confirm whether or not it does ignore protection for critical chance? I was hoping the video you posted with zombies (they have really high protection) would clear my doubts, but either the resolution isn't too high or my eyes aren't good enough to discern whether or not the skill is able to critical after so many uses.

  
  
  I asked my friend in Japan and she will send be the answer back soon.(IDK what time it is over there)
  
  

  Quote from Xemnas;209550:

  really? If they are I'm so glad I kept my massive ice elemental.
  
  Edit: not trying to derail the thread, I just like knowing elements of monsters so I don't get owned.
  
  Edit2: what type of magic is blaze by the way, it's not tier 2 because fireball is the int magic for fire.

  
  
  Blaze doesn't have an element, it is like neutral
  
  

  Quote from Jando;209560:

  I think you should do it. Tier 3 Magic is going to outclass Tier 2 Magic one way or another.

  
  
  Ya, I think i probably am
• Zid wrote on 2010-11-09 19:26

  Quote from radionoise;209500:

  I was wondering, does Hailstorm ignore protection for calculating critical chance? Intermediate magic and other skills such as windmill, crash shot, etc do so because they are AOE. Hailstorm, however, isn't exactly AOE in the traditional sense...
  
  Can anyone confirm whether or not it does ignore protection for critical chance? I was hoping the video you posted with zombies (they have really high protection) would clear my doubts, but either the resolution isn't too high or my eyes aren't good enough to discern whether or not the skill is able to critical after so many uses.

  
  
  [video=youtube;PipnnkJ2nrQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PipnnkJ2nrQ[/video]
  
  Beast Lord has 47% Critical with Trinity Staff, assuming the staff contributes to Magic Critical. Only known Protection of the mob surrounding him is White Bear, which has 54% Protection with title. He hasn't landed a Critical Hit once. Probably not a 100% confirmation, but I'd rather be safe and say Hailstorm doesn't ignore Protection to calculate Critical rate.
  
  By the way, not all Area-of-Effect skills ignore Protection to calculate Critical rate.
• radionoise wrote on 2010-11-09 20:22

  Quote from Zid;209780:

  [video=youtube;PipnnkJ2nrQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PipnnkJ2nrQ[/video]
  
  Beast Lord has 47% Critical with Trinity Staff, assuming the staff contributes to Magic Critical. Only known Protection of the mob surrounding him is White Bear, which has 54% Protection with title. He hasn't landed a Critical Hit once. Probably not a 100% confirmation, but I'd rather be safe and say Hailstorm doesn't ignore Protection to calculate Critical rate.
  
  By the way, not all Area-of-Effect skills ignore Protection to calculate Critical rate.

  
  
  If it doesn't, then I'd imagine it'd be better to stick with Blaze unless one is willing to give up MP/Def enchant slots as a mage, and replace them for critical ones... It'd also make pot-poison playstyle less feasible, due the loss of Will.
  
  If you don't mind, could you elaborate on which AoE skills don't currently ignore Protection for Critical rate? I thought they all did, with the exception of Shock which simply does not deal critical damage and Mirage Missile which is a status effect.
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-11-10 04:41
  Also my Korean source told me that hailstorm does not ignore protection wile calculating critical chance.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-11-10 05:10
  ????? - ?????
  
  

  보호무시가 아니라서 크리 100%이상 안맞추면 데미지 잘 안떠요.

  
  Translation:
  

  Since it is not protection ignore, if you don't have 100+crit, damage isn't decent.

  
  o.e never knew that hailstorm didn't ignore crit.