defence/protection upgrades

• Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-11-14 01:28

  Quote from gentrone;214097:

  This. Every protection point lowers the chance of you receiving a critical hit by 2%. When you get to go to higher dungeons and missions you will notice monsters will crit more often... I don't know how damage calculation works but, ie a monsters hits 1-8 on you, but when it crits, you receive a full 40-50 damage hit.
  
  Defense is "easier" to get from enchants (Rock, Defensive, Oak Tree, Burgundy Bear, Imp, Rigid, Captain... on top of my head) compared to protection. Equips will often have reduced protection if they're low quality (like 6/2, 6/3 Val or Dustin and unsigned Vambraces). So I would recommend the protection route.

  
  Defence is calculated before protection. In most cases, even if the monster is going to critical you, it'll still have to go through the formula for defence first.
  
  I find that at least 40 defence is necessary for hard mode missions. Because of this crazy statue that spits out bolts (Fomor's attack tara castle missions, which I also believe is not very popular in NA but we do it a lot here), which under most circumstances you cannot avoid getting hit.
  
  The point about facing powerful mobs is still about not getting hit as much as possible.
  
  Also want to point out that enchants adding protection usually means a sacrifice to max damage. Refined enchant for armors and burgundy bear enchant for gloves do not add any damage value.
  
  As Phunkie said, protection is only good if you have a lot of it. Also, protection adding equips (like whatever sig items you said) are often expensive, and not many people can afford them and on top of that enchant them with good enchants. Since there isn't enough of protection to go around, most people would do well to go for more damage and defence.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-11-14 01:54
  but for a mana master build, you would sacrifice str for prot since str does nothing to magic.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-11-14 02:13

  Quote from abc33kr;214477:

  but for a mana master build, you would sacrifice str for prot since str does nothing to magic.

  
  Make sense but most magic-type characters I know have some melee background.
  Otherwise people going for magic would be considering mana-reduction equipment anyway.
• jking012 wrote on 2010-11-14 03:58
  welll... for me in the future i plan to have a full 95-100 prot set ^^ for mass tanking via windguard ^^
  
  o... and it CAN be done ^^
  
  just for rough example... clothing full prot upg with accessory type 2 prot with the +3 prot enchant from nao on both so thats clothing prot + 10 from acessory + trans prot + windguard (50-at rank 1)
  
  ^^ i think theres more to it but you get the idea
  
  

  Quote from abc33kr;214477:

  but for a mana master build, you would sacrifice str for prot since str does nothing to magic.

  
  
  Not 100% true dont forget Blaze ^^
• Haydrian wrote on 2010-11-14 21:21
  It's a matter of style but i recommend doing protection based upgrades as defense you can now obtain from virtually every good armor enchant out there... protection not so much. Those that lay claim that protection doesn't do much i have noticed a big difference with protection upgrades versus my old main's defense based upgrades. Archers are laughable to me now.
  
  Basically all you need to know to decide:
  
  Protection lowers crit and injury rate.
  
  Defense lowers damage rate.
  
  
  Most good heavy armor have more than enough durability that you wont need to up your durability. If you use something like Tioz, Arish, Claus, ect. i wouldn't even bother upgrading it. If you want a cheap armor just grab some melka and shove a robe over it. The majority of armor out there with just 6/2 and are low on durability are showy and not all that practical. I find focused on durability increase upgrade sequences are pointless and not recommended.
  
  
  In the end it's up to personal preference and style of play. Some go the more defensive route and others go for more protection. Some don't use armor all together. Some go for damage and don't upgrade at all. it's all preference. Really I wouldn't worry about clothes/armor upgrades until you've got a grasp on the game and feel you are ready to have personalized items either in your bank or inventory.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-11-14 21:29

  Quote from Phunkie;213934:

  Most people go for higher durability first, then choose depending on what types of mobs they fight.
  
  But truth is, in Mabinogi, Protection doesn't help so much, unless you got tons of it.
  
  I say go mostly for Defense with some Protection.

  
  
  Protection is for hard Level missions and Hardmode ADV dungeons/peaca. For normal dungeons having around 20 prot is the most you'll need. My current set has 38 protection and that is very very helpful.
  
  Edit: I should read all the posts...mines kinda redundant.
  
  Edit 2: 50% prot???? care to share. I haven't found a way to do above 40 non trans. (Plus DK trans gives non just lots of pingping)
• Justified wrote on 2010-11-14 21:39

  Quote from Yogurticecream;214421:

  Defence is calculated before protection. In most cases, even if the monster is going to critical you, it'll still have to go through the formula for defence first.

  
  
  Doesn't matter, because if you have low prot and they crit you they'll still be taking away a huge chunk of your hp. That Fiodh example where mobs can only do 1 damage, but end up critting for 40-50+ is a good example.
  
  Likewise, in Adv/Hard missions, a lot of the mobs will have very high wound/crit rates, and some with over 100 damage. Prot beats Def in three areas in that situation, which is why most endgame players will value very high Prot. Defense will still be pretty high, even with Prot-focused builds, so it's not like the same thing won't work in low-damage multi aggro areas like Fiodh or Alby.
• jking012 wrote on 2010-11-15 09:30

  Quote from Haydrian;215166:

  
  Protection lowers crit and injury rate.
  
  Defense lowers damage rate.
  

  
  
  Actually Protection lowers crit, injury rate and % dmg taken but calculates it AFTER def is calculated that means if you had 100% protection everything WOULD DO 1... (not including adv magic and skills that bypass/lower prot)
  
  

  Quote from Archibald;215177:

  
  Edit 2: 50% prot???? care to share. I haven't found a way to do above 40 non trans. (Plus DK trans gives non just lots of pingping)

  
  
  2 words: Wind Guard
• pkMaster wrote on 2010-11-15 10:24
  You could also make use of the "Master of Barrier Spikes" title to get a decent amount of protection. +12% protection FTW!
• Richard wrote on 2010-11-15 21:23
  In the upgrade sequences on the wiki, you can tell that the defense/protection sequences only provide 3 or 4 more of defense/protection, and many of those sequences take away durability. I'd rather have armor that will last a lot longer and will have a larger cushion for enchant failures (even though it's wiser to enchant before starting to upgrade) than a few points in defense/protection and possibly less durability.