Help Deciding what to ego

This is an archive of the mabination.com forums which were active from 2010 to 2018. You can not register, post or otherwise interact with the site other than browsing the content for historical purposes. The content is provided as-is, from the moment of the last backup taken of the database in 2019. Image and video embeds are disabled on purpose and represented textually since most of those links are dead.

To view other archive projects go to https://archives.mabination.com

Omarukun wrote on 2010-11-18 02:17

Well I cant decide what weapon I should use for my new ego.

Im choosing either a Gladius or a Ring bow.... Basically is a sword or a bow, Range or melee ...

What do you think guys?, wich weapon would suit me better :| ?

If it helps vvvvvvvv

Combat mastery:---1
Windmill:-----------1
Smash:------------1
Ranged Attack:-----1
Arrow revolver:-- --1
Magnum Shot:--- --1

And like STR: 130------Dex: 200

I still have some life skills to rank that gives dex and str...
Kaeporo wrote on 2010-11-18 03:05

It depends on several things.

Melee damage is primarily composed of equipment bonuses. The damage lost by not wielding a high level spirit melee weapon can be quite significant. Upgraded and enchanted two-handed weapons aren't much worse than level 50 spirit two-handed weapons, while one-handed spirit weapons are significantly stronger than their counterparts.

The best two-handed sword is definitely the Dustin Silver Knight Sword, while the best one-handed sword is either the Muramasa, Bastard or Gladius. The Bastard provides the highest damage output (on average) but has high enough critical to pull off awesome crit windmills. The critical required in order to crit hard shadow mobs is around 130. You'll be unlikely to crit them using smash, unless you sacrifice damage enchants in order to boost your critical. Seeing as how two-handed swords have better smash damage anyway, you would be wise to stick with +damage. Namely, the broad sword.

(Not to mention, if Gladius users are so concerned about critical hits, they should know that critical bonus damage is composed entirely of maximum damage.)

The Muramasa has excellent damage and critical but most players will find the repair costs unsettling (even though most egos are NX repaired).

Ranged damage is primarily composed of dexterity and skill bonuses. However, equipment bonuses are definitely important. Spirit ranged weapons tend to have greater overall stats compared to their upgraded/enchanted counterparts, providing high damage, critical and range.

Human ranged combat (namely Crash Shot, the only thing that can compete with high-level shadow missions) favors max damage, as it ignores protection to determine your critical rate, while elves will still greatly benefit from high critical because of the outstanding DPS provided through final magnum.

The Ring Bow is the preferred Human ranged weapon, as it has excellent maximum damage and range; in addition to being a two-hit average speed weapon. Those traits give it the greatest stun of all ego'able weapons. The ring bow gives the player the best average damage and critical hit total, so you're getting your money's worth.

The Wing Bow provides excellent critical, damage and range. It can be compared to the Crossbow, which gives slightly higher critical but slightly lower average damage. The ring bow is a fast two-hit weapon, which gives it stun comparable to the leather long bow. The crossbow has poor range (and disables the ability to use the campfire bonus) but provides greater mobility for Human archers.

The leather long bow is the jack of all trades. It has the lowest ADACT of all mentioned weapons but provides high damage, critical and range while being cheap to maintain.

As far as "melee versus range" is concerned, it's up to you. Human melee and range are both quite usable, end-game.
Dracius wrote on 2010-11-18 03:22

For Shadow Missions, I'd reccomend melee.
For the orbs, it has an enclosed space, so you can't snipe.
The monsters also aggro quite fast, and they dual aggro.

Over 50% of the people who range in Shadow Missions end up dying (Personal experience)

Over 75% of them are elves.
Akemii wrote on 2010-11-18 03:36

Quote from Dracius;219833:
For Shadow Missions, I'd reccomend melee.
For the orbs, it has an enclosed space, so you can't snipe.
The monsters also aggro quite fast, and they dual aggro.

Over 50% of the people who range in Shadow Missions end up dying (Personal experience)

Over 75% of them are elves.

So 75% of the 50% of people die? I mage and use alchemy and I end up just fine. But I haven't done advanced missions in AWWHIIILLEEE
Cide wrote on 2010-11-18 03:46

Quote from Dracius;219833:
For Shadow Missions, I'd reccomend melee.
For the orbs, it has an enclosed space, so you can't snipe.
The monsters also aggro quite fast, and they dual aggro.

Over 50% of the people who range in Shadow Missions end up dying (Personal experience)

Over 75% of them are elves.

you don't party with very good range elves, now do you?
Dracius wrote on 2010-11-18 03:52

Quote from Cide;219890:
you don't party with very good range elves, now do you?

Nope.

I DO party with fantastic mage elves though.
Justified wrote on 2010-11-18 04:13

Quote from Kaeporo;219807:
Upgraded and enchanted two-handed weapons aren't much worse than level 50 spirit two-handed weapons, while one-handed spirit weapons are significantly stronger than their counterparts.

Dustin Ego = 243 max, 37 crit
R/C Clay = 159 max, 30 crit
Difference = 84 max, 7 crit
2H = "Aren't much worse"

Gladius Ego = 189 max, 19 crit
W/H Warsword = 120 max, 25 crit
Difference = 69 max, -6 crit
1H = "Significantly stronger"

Yet the gap is larger for 2H weapons. Especially if you consider the offhand weapon, there is a much smaller relative increase for 1H egos in comparison to 2H egos.

The critical required in order to crit hard shadow mobs is around 130. You'll be unlikely to crit them using smash, unless you sacrifice damage enchants in order to boost your critical. Seeing as how two-handed swords have better smash damage anyway, you would be wise to stick with +damage. Namely, the broad sword.

Doppleganger = 19% Prot (38-68 crit)
Gold Bone Archer = 22% Prot (44-74 crit)
Gold Bone Fighter = 30% Prot (60-90 crit)
Gold Bone Lancer = 30% Prot (60-90 crit)
- - - and even less needed for Silver/Bronze/Colorless counterparts

That is reasonably within reach without sacrificing any damage enchants.
Assuming Age 17, base luck with average stats is around ~18. A Gladius Ego is now capable of Crit Smashing any of the mobs, at least at low chance, while Dustin Egos are near the border (don't forget 2H gets +5 crit chance on smash). Toss in trans for anybody except Paladins, and you'll be around mid to max crit chance.

Rule out the possibility of a crit smash and you severely limit your potential as a melee character.
Beepuke wrote on 2010-11-18 04:28

It's weird cause the question was clearly between an ego ring bow and an ego gladius and yet I see talk about ego muramasa and ego llbs lul. I'm assuming he's already weighed the advantages and disadvantages between high crit vs high damage, two hander vs one hander and weapon speed. It's a choice between melee and ranged. I would recommend melee, since you're a human. You don't have the benefits of mounted archery, you'd be missing dex from crash shot (like 10 dex), mirage missile, final shot, and human ranged in general is subpar to elven ranged in PvE. Whereas if you pair a one handed ego with say, a nicely enchanted and modded war sword, you get the advantages of human final hit, and the amazing potential of windmill. If you get sword of Elsinore.. yeah. Sorry, I should have just said this in game but I was a bit busy before ;x
Jando wrote on 2010-11-18 09:11

Personally I use a LLB EGO because of its 2500 range, easy repairs and its ability for awesome rafting.
Hei wrote on 2010-11-18 14:19

Quote from Justified;219923:
Dustin Ego = 243 max, 37 crit
R/C Clay = 159 max, 30 crit
Difference = 84 max, 7 crit
2H = "Aren't much worse"

Gladius Ego = 189 max, 19 crit
W/H Warsword = 120 max, 25 crit
Difference = 69 max, -6 crit
1H = "Significantly stronger"

Yet the gap is larger for 2H weapons. Especially if you consider the offhand weapon, there is a much smaller relative increase for 1H egos in comparison to 2H egos.

Doppleganger = 19% Prot (38-68 crit)
Gold Bone Archer = 22% Prot (44-74 crit)
Gold Bone Fighter = 30% Prot (60-90 crit)
Gold Bone Lancer = 30% Prot (60-90 crit)
- - - and even less needed for Silver/Bronze/Colorless counterparts

That is reasonably within reach without sacrificing any damage enchants.
Assuming Age 17, base luck with average stats is around ~18. A Gladius Ego is now capable of Crit Smashing any of the mobs, at least at low chance, while Dustin Egos are near the border (don't forget 2H gets +5 crit chance on smash). Toss in trans for anybody except Paladins, and you'll be around mid to max crit chance.

Rule out the possibility of a crit smash and you severely limit your potential as a melee character.

Muramasa ego is pretty significantly better than the gladius. Check the world wiki page that I've recently updated. Stats are no longer a mystery, for the most part. If you want to have a low chance of crit smashing at sm's, it's better to go with mura. Not that I would recommend a critical or semi critical set with your ego 1h.

Critical smash can be useful, but it's not nearly as important as you make it sound. with the proper strategies you can wm spam most sm dungeons more effectively. Will smash be more useful in certain places than others? Of course. However,

The argument, for me at least, is not whether a gladius ego can smash better than a bastard sword ego, but whether the 1h ego should be used with a critical smash set. You can always carry around a 2h weapon (non-egoed) for a better critical smash set. From what I've read, the g13 weapon refinement system and enchants can make quite something out of a high lander claymore.

So to me, it's not worth sacrificing damage with your 1h ego for critical smash, with a low chance. The fact that I use a conceptual avenger armor makes it even more so, because that's -20 critical if I spam pots. What's the point of carrying around all that useless excess critical, if I don't have enough to critical smash anything strong enough?
Archibald wrote on 2010-11-18 16:39

Wel your asking a very broad question which is based on play style. If your talking about 1 ego that you will have forever then Endgame your talkin about a bow. The reason is it compensates for the poor choices of non ego bows (outside Highlander bow).

At beginning game the smart players focus on 1 skill area and maximize that but endgame your going to have your specialtys maxed and your going to expand into othe areas.

Alchemy has no egos and is inherently strong on its own.

Wands are poor choices for egos because their stats are outclassed in every way but melee damage (sillyness).

Swords have lots of options also you can have NON-ego swords that are very strong (Jousting Claymore, Highlander Claymore, Warswords, Beholder Swords, falcata for you shield lovers) and when enchanted can get very near a decent ego (not end game mind you).

With bows there is only 1 good option of a bow outside of ego, and thats a Highlander bow. So unless your farming peaca your stuck with weak bows. Longbow is ok but even pro-enchanted you cant get it over 65 max. Ringbows are ok but the critical is so low its not worth it. (rangers need thier crit). Crossbows are ok for crit but have very low damage. Same with Wingbows. The difference between a endgame bow and pro-enchanted bow is nearly 100 max damage and some crit.

With the new all white ringbows out I decided to ego that. Endgame having Flexibility to adjust to all situations is the name of the game. At this point in the game if your not sure I would hold off.
Yanm wrote on 2010-11-21 18:03

Quote from Archibald;220252:
Wel your asking a very broad question which is based on play style. If your talking about 1 ego that you will have forever then Endgame your talkin about a bow. The reason is it compensates for the poor choices of non ego bows (outside Highlander bow).

At beginning game the smart players focus on 1 skill area and maximize that but endgame your going to have your specialtys maxed and your going to expand into othe areas.

Alchemy has no egos and is inherently strong on its own.

Wands are poor choices for egos because their stats are outclassed in every way but melee damage (sillyness).

Swords have lots of options also you can have NON-ego swords that are very strong (Jousting Claymore, Highlander Claymore, Warswords, Beholder Swords, falcata for you shield lovers) and when enchanted can get very near a decent ego (not end game mind you).

With bows there is only 1 good option of a bow outside of ego, and thats a Highlander bow. So unless your farming peaca your stuck with weak bows. Longbow is ok but even pro-enchanted you cant get it over 65 max. Ringbows are ok but the critical is so low its not worth it. (rangers need thier crit). Crossbows are ok for crit but have very low damage. Same with Wingbows. The difference between a endgame bow and pro-enchanted bow is nearly 100 max damage and some crit.

With the new all white ringbows out I decided to ego that. Endgame having Flexibility to adjust to all situations is the name of the game. At this point in the game if your not sure I would hold off.

Very good explanation there, but still, 243 max Dustin ego vs 180?+ Highlander Claymore. How many people would be able to get a Highlander Claymore? And like Beepuke said, Human range isn't as good as Elf range. However, I've still thought about getting a Ring Bow ego, just to make up for the weaker upgradable Bows, but the Masamune ego's higher crit and damage than a Rich Crocodile Claymore I'll make keeps holding me back. You're talking about endgame though, so more than likely, people will have access to Highlander Claymores. But before then, deciding between the two can be tough.