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PandaSong wrote on 2010-11-30 20:03
*shrugs* I don't agree with Religion itself. I do like the idea of Spiritualism, because.. everyone I've known that is Spiritual (they all believe in something different, so it's definitely not the Religion itself!) are actually some of the nicest people. Religion itself seems to corrupt people into thinking, "My way is best". Though it does teach other things that are helpful as well.
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Intex wrote on 2010-11-30 21:00
Quote from Moppy;232785:
The only thing I like about religion are the values it teaches.
Although some religions do teach good morals those morals can be enforced by fear.
Do not commit sin because you will go to hell, instead of explaining the importance of things in life.
I refuse to murder not because I am afraid of the police, but because I believe murder is wrong.
And of course there are the taught morals that are held to the same level as murder or robbery.
Gay people are abominations, Jewish people should die, women should not instruct a man, and committing adultery results in stoning.
but most religions base a lot of their teaching on being nice to one another.
Of course that's only provided that the person you're being nice to is of the same religion.
I'm always trying my best to be nice to everyone I know, you can learn that reading picture books.
I think religion has caused a lot of bad things and confusion in the world but to deny the positive things it teaches would be inappropriate.
Everything good that it provides could easily be accomplished without the religious part involved (also less exclusive).
Christian charity organizations versus non-religious charity organizations.
Morals of a child raised by religious parents versus atheist parents.
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Zid wrote on 2010-12-01 17:37
Quote from Intex;233419:
Everything good that it provides could easily be accomplished without the religious part involved (also less exclusive).
Christian charity organizations versus non-religious charity organizations.
Morals of a child raised by religious parents versus atheist parents.
Is there anything wrong with that? If religious teachings and atheist teachings say killing is wrong, the only matter of difference is the reasoning. The focus remains the same, to not kill.
For the matter of fear by religion, that can also be subjective. Not everybody who follows, say Islam, the religion and its teachings were enforced by fear. A person who converted into a Muslim probably did not do so because Islam force that person to.
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Adelynn wrote on 2010-12-01 19:42
I think the part about fear matters greatly.
It's like me holding a knife to your neck and forcing you to say "I love you" instead of you saying "I love you" because you actually believe that you do. Instigating fear doesn't have to be as violent of course, but it's just for the sake of giving a simple example.
If they believe because they DO and not because someone made them, I think that's important.
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12y4jv wrote on 2010-12-06 04:31
Just saying, but the money goes to supporting the church and paying for staff :X
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12y4jv wrote on 2010-12-06 04:33
[Image: http://puu.sh/tFq]
Just saying, but the money goes to supporting the church and paying the staff :X
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Intex wrote on 2010-12-06 05:06
Quote from Zid;234502:
Is there anything wrong with that? If religious teachings and atheist teachings say killing is wrong, the only matter of difference is the reasoning. The focus remains the same, to not kill.
Reasoning is very important when teaching children, it teaches them the process of reasoning as well.
Killing is wrong because it is a sin.
Let's go pick on that kid in my art class, I'm just having fun with him.
Killing is wrong because it is a horrible thing that hurts people, you should never perform malicious acts on another human being.
You shouldn't bully that person, it's wrong to hurt others.
Not everybody who follows, say Islam, the religion and its teachings were enforced by fear. A person who converted into a Muslim probably did not do so because Islam force that person to.
"Not everybody" means that few/some/many do.
A few of my friends converted to Christianity because they were scared of dying and wanted to make sure they got into heaven.
And if we're talking about general religion, almost all of them enforce laws with fear.
Sariah law says adulterous people will be stoned.
Christianity says sinners will go to hell.
Greek mythology says angering the god will give you eternal punishment.
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Zid wrote on 2010-12-06 05:51
Quote from Intex;238666:
Reasoning is very important when teaching children, it teaches them the process of reasoning as well.
Killing is wrong because it is a sin.
Let's go pick on that kid in my art class, I'm just having fun with him.
Killing is wrong because it is a horrible thing that hurts people, you should never perform malicious acts on another human being.
You shouldn't bully that person, it's wrong to hurt others.
A sin is a horrible thing that hurts people too. Whether or not the follower chose to not do that sin as a means to go to afterlife paradise, or as a reasoning to never do wrong to another being, is their acts.
A belief that killing human beings is wrong is just that, a belief. It's not a law of the universe. Neither religion or atheist reasoning for not killing another human being is rooted into the facts of the universe.
As for picking on that kid in art class, religion isn't limited to just its own writings. A Christian or an atheist is taught by morals of their own followings and teachings to not pick on that kid in the first place.
Quote from Intex;238666:
"Not everybody" means that few/some/many do.
A few of my friends converted to Christianity because they were scared of dying and wanted to make sure they got into heaven.
And if we're talking about general religion, almost all of them enforce laws with fear.
Sariah law says adulterous people will be stoned.
Christianity says sinners will go to hell.
Greek mythology says angering the god will give you eternal punishment.
Today in the US, a religion is just that. If Christianity says you're going to hell for sinning, you can choose to believe in that or not. There is no true "enforcement" of laws by religions today; the best the religion can do is just say a few words of fear to try to persuade the follower. The choice to go through with it or not is still within the believer. If fear by words alone constitutes a reason as enforcement, then that's their own mindset of giving into fear.
It's true though, for other countries, that religions do actually punish with physical, tangible methods as a means of enforcement, but those countries have not separated state from religion.
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Ailyene wrote on 2010-12-06 10:35
I'm an atheist. For me, life is good without religion. I don't worry about going to "hell" (doesn't even exist in my world), I don't worry about keeping up fasting traditions, and I don't worry about having to pray to various gods at once. Life is good this way.
Therefore, for me, religion should just go away. So far, all it does is make me annoyed. It used to have some nice ideals back in a day, but now, all I see is a bunch of teenagers stealing and bullying yet wearing a necklace acting like they're actually very devoted. Kind of makes me sad. I think the most important part about any religion is the part where you're taught not to hurt others and things like that. Not the part about how there's a thing in the sky that knows everything you do.
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Sarinii wrote on 2010-12-06 11:30
Religion. So controversial at times. :/
Well, people are saying that religion is a personal choice.
No.
In my case, it's not. I'm Christian, and i don't mind it too much. However, my mother is rather committed to it and she expects me to do the same. I feel bad for saying this, but i don't believe in all factors of Christianity. Some things just go against logic. Some things in Christianity baffle me and make me more confused when they're supposed to help me not be confused. I'm sorry if what i've said offended other Christians in here, but i'm losing my faith in a religion i don't really want to believe in anymore. I want to tell my mother, but i'm too intimidated to do so, as she can get pretty fierce about such topics, and even if i do manage to, i know that all the other adults from the church i go to will come up to me personally and hassle me into it again. You could say it's a cult, and it may as well be one. I'd like to believe in Christianity, it's just really difficult to do so at the moment. If i were a non-practicing Christian i would be happier.
My views on this might change though, i go in and out of phases on stuff like this. :L
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Adelynn wrote on 2010-12-06 17:39
Mm..Well, I'll bring my personal experience into this since it could help you, maybe.
At the age of around 11 or 12, I started to realize I didn't fully believe in this being we call "god". I guess like you, there were parts of it that just left me utterly baffled and confused. I was sad and scared because if that was true, then there was no heaven, and on top of that, it would probably seriously disappoint my parents. I didn't say anything, and I tried sticking to the whole religion thing as best as I could, but by the age of 16 I started to realize I was definitely more on the "non-believing" side. Why did I still try to believe? Out of fear. The very religion I wanted to follow had I should be afraid of not believing in god. Whatever my brain wanted to tell me, that fear kept me close to religion, so to speak. However, even with that fear still there, I ended up not believing altogether. I was still scared, but my heart and mind could no longer grasp the idea of believing. I wavered between agnosticism and atheism because even though I didn't believe in a god or heaven, I WANTED to, because I wanted to think that the all-powerful was watching out for ME. During this time, I told my parents I was agnostic, and they kept on forcing their beliefs down my throat, and basically alienated me as far as religious beliefs went. I was "ungrateful" in their eyes. So, I'd go to a place that conflicted with my own beliefs, very irritated, feeling like a hypocrite every time I prayed to a god I didn't think was there. Eventually, they gave up and let me stay home, and I've only just recently been able to tell myself, that yes, I am an atheist, not agnostic.
Keeping it bottled up only made things difficult for me, but in the long run, I've found people that accept me for who I am, and I take the parts of religion that I still believe in with me. I think it is wrong to kill, but not because I'll burn in hell for doing it. At the end of the day, if I can look in the mirror and not be ashamed of the person looking back at me, then that's what matters. You don't need to be religious to have morals.
Wherever you are, be honest with yourself, or you could end up struggling for years, like I did.
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Ailyene wrote on 2010-12-06 21:47
Quote from Sarinii;238781:
Religion. So controversial at times. :/
Well, people are saying that religion is a personal choice.
No.
In my case, it's not. I'm Christian, and i don't mind it too much. However, my mother is rather committed to it and she expects me to do the same. I feel bad for saying this, but i don't believe in all factors of Christianity. Some things just go against logic. Some things in Christianity baffle me and make me more confused when they're supposed to help me not be confused. I'm sorry if what i've said offended other Christians in here, but i'm losing my faith in a religion i don't really want to believe in anymore. I want to tell my mother, but i'm too intimidated to do so, as she can get pretty fierce about such topics, and even if i do manage to, i know that all the other adults from the church i go to will come up to me personally and hassle me into it again. You could say it's a cult, and it may as well be one. I'd like to believe in Christianity, it's just really difficult to do so at the moment. If i were a non-practicing Christian i would be happier.
My views on this might change though, i go in and out of phases on stuff like this. :L
If you don't want to believe in it anymore, don't. I don't believe that you're going to go to hell or whatever for not believing in it, so it'll be okay. There's no point forcing yourself to do something that will make you unhappy and won't really benefit you, right? I think a lot of children who are forced into a religion at their birth end up kind of like you too...as in they aren't sure as they grow up. Maybe you'll stop believing in it and then believe again someday. Maybe you just won't.
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Teaberry wrote on 2010-12-06 22:53
Disclaimer: I did not read the thread before making this post
My views on religion are as such: Religion was one of the first forms of government. It was a way for leaders to instill good ethics, morals, and laws into a population with the use of a "higher authority." As other forms of government came into the light along with science, these higher authorities started lacking authority. As such, I'm agnostic (despite being raised Seventh-Day Adventist.)
I have nothing against religion. If you believe in it and it keeps you on track towards being a better person, more power to you. My main concern lies with the church, which is essentially an organization designed to make money off of someone's faith. You don't need a pastor/father/etc to interpret scripture for you in this day and age. Read your holy book, extract its lessons for yourself, and live your life. Don't spend your time and money supporting an organization that just uses a hive mind mentality to push its own agenda.
Maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't. I just know that if he's out there most religions claim he stopped giving a damn about us. So I'm going to believe what I see with my own eyes and rely on what I know exists. Who knows, maybe a complete miracle will happen and change my mind. But it hasn't, so I'm not a believer.
TL:DR version: Religion tends to make you a better person, but it's best to worship on your own.