Knock down % - what does it mean

• Kueh wrote on 2010-12-17 17:27

  Quote from heretic304;250807:

  I think the way knockdown works in this game is not really % chance to knock down, but rather a knockdown meter, where you build towards the knockdown point.

  
  
  This is what I meant when I said it works the same way as Mabinogi.
  
  As for sometimes knocking down and sometimes not, it could be that each attack doesn't stack the same amount per attack. When factored in along with the boss' knockdown defense, you could potentially get cases where one move fills the meter all at once.
  
  (i.e. Your attack rolls a high knockdown, and the boss rolls a particularly low defense.)
• heretic304 wrote on 2010-12-17 18:21

  Quote from Whyrainfalls;250952:

  This is what I meant when I said it works the same way as Mabinogi.
  
  As for sometimes knocking down and sometimes not, it could be that each attack doesn't stack the same amount per attack. When factored in along with the boss' knockdown defense, you could potentially get cases where one move fills the meter all at once.
  
  (i.e. Your attack rolls a high knockdown, and the boss rolls a particularly low defense.)

  
  
  The defense and offense rolls don't seem as likely, because if that was the case, the same exact combination of smashes wouldn't take down a boss 90% of the time, which is what often happens.
• xJac wrote on 2010-12-17 18:29
  Could it possibly be something like this?
  
  Let's use double crescent for example. At rank 6, the probability to knock down enemy is 18%.
  
  Now instead of choosing 18 variables between 100 to make it work (which does nothing to prevent infinite knock down, or not having once at all in 1000+ hits), they use a Pseudo Random Probability Distribution.
  
  Instead of having 18% chance to knock down for every attack, they make the first attack 3.645% chance to proc knock down. If the first hit didn't proc, then the second hit would be 7.29%. If the second one didn't proc either, third hit would be 10.935%. Adding 3.645% to each hit if the last one didn't proc a knock down. If a KD do occur, then that value is set back to initial, or 0%. In this way, the most hits you will hit is 27, before you get a sure knock down. Most likely you have already kd before it as it past 50% (around 13 hits).
  
  Note: I am not sure about the percentile, the table was using another game's PRPD's conversion table, so it could be off. But this might be the reason why you can always get a knock down within a certain hits, and only at a few times would you be able to knock the boss back down right as it gets up.
  
  If you want, here's the source. But don't wander in there if you don't want some intense reading.
  
  Edit: Of course, in Vindictus, the boss would have a knock down resistance, and it should affect negatively against the kd count, and you will have to do more hits on higher boss to get them knocked down.
• heretic304 wrote on 2010-12-17 19:13
  That is likely how it works, but you have to keep in mind that we don't actually know the real value of each skill's knockdown chance, since the actual skill only improves upon the base knockdown chance that each skill already has. So it would be incorrect to say that r6 Double Crescent has an 18% chance to knock down an enemy. Rather it's got an 18% better chance to knock down an enemy than a rank null Double Crescent.
• xJac wrote on 2010-12-17 19:20
  True, and I also think there's a separate meter for spear. As we can always knock down a boss with x spears, and never with just one unless it only needs one to be kd.
• Darkwolf30 wrote on 2010-12-17 19:24
  Does the "meter" ever reset other than when you kd the monster? I know the spear one doesn't because you can spear it 3 times then spear it once later and it he will be knocked down if it takes 4. Though I would think the meter from hits would reset after some time?
• heretic304 wrote on 2010-12-17 20:19
  Spears fall within the knockdown methods. That's why you can do a mix of spearing and smashing to knock a boss down.
• xJac wrote on 2010-12-17 20:47
  The spear kd actually does get reset once you knocked the boss down.
  So far we know:
  (1) We need a certain amount of spears to knock a boss down. So there must exist some sort of meter to count how many spears.
  (2) If you spear the boss a few times first, it's easier to be knocked down by smashes. So smashes and spear works together, it's possible that smashes has a part that will be calculated into the meter.
  (3) Occasionally you get knock down right after the boss backed up. So there also exist a chance calculator for knock down.
  (4) Some bosses, usually higher level, get knock down less often. Could be a decimal multiplier on both meter and chance. Could be the meter is just much higher.
  
  Well... time to do some testing.
• heretic304 wrote on 2010-12-18 10:09
  Supposedly bosses from boat 5 and beyond are immune to spear knockdown, so we may want to leave spears out of the equation D: