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abc33kr wrote on 2010-12-17 23:47
Commonly, I see people just ranting back about how wrong they are about their views and ridicule them.
By doing that, not only are the haters upset and more inclined to stick to their views, those people become hypocrites and are just as bad as nazis lynching homosexuals.
Next common way would be just ignoring them and seclude them in their own world. This is not as bad as the first response, but this allows haters to intensify on their beliefs. Moderates will become radicals and radicals will become delusional.
The correct way is same as how Christian missionaries (the ones that actually know what the hell they are doing) convert non-believers. Introduce the idea and leave the door open for them to discover/learn about the topic.
Teachers don't teach their students by shoving e=mc^2 or a^2+b^2=c^2 in their throat (at least the teachers that know what the hell they are doing don't). They introduce, educate, and review.
Most of the time, the haters hate because they are told to hate. They just don't think for themselves. Does that make them inherently evil and cold? no, they are just lost sheep in the plains and teachers must guide them into understanding and tolerance. You can't shove tolerance into people's throat (ohh the oxymoron).
This thread was created to hopefully persuade people just hating religions esp christianity because of people who are just confused. Do good teachers ridicule you when you mess up? no, they always give you the opportunity to review and improve. So give that same chance to racists and homophobics. Although it will be extremely difficult to approach them, it will be worth it when you finally move their beliefs.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-12-18 00:04
Good points.
No, you should never shove your beliefs' into people's mouths. Sometimes you need to convince them, persuade them. Show them the facts, the realities, instead of the false facts they strongly hold onto.
But I want to say that there is nothing right about being a racist, a homophobe, a sexist or any other kind of person who discriminates against others. Discrimination of all form is wrong. One should never grow up with the belief that someone is inferior to you. However, unfortunately, people are indeed raised with these beliefs.
It's up to us to correct them and teach 'em the right ways.
It's just frustrating sometimes. And yes, you cannot convince everyone. Some people will always continue to use violent language against other groups of people. It's something you can't change. But you can change the future generations and ultimately that's what we should all strive for.
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-12-18 00:20
I believe that hating on haters just because of their beliefs is SAME as hating mentally disabled people. What did they do wrong? it was the environment that made them think that way.
Then there are people who are haters because they sincerely believe so. Just like how HIV isn't curable, there are some people you can't convince unless there is a miracle.
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Tatsu wrote on 2010-12-18 00:35
Quote from abc33kr;251261:
I believe that hating on haters just because of their beliefs is SAME as hating mentally disabled people. What did they do wrong? it was the environment that made them think that way.
Until there's a guy nearly beaten to death on the streets because people thought he was gay. Or an Indian household being burned down because the neighborhood thinks they're part of al-Qaeda. Not that killing a man who hates gay people is any better.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-12-18 00:48
Quote from abc33kr;251261:
I believe that hating on haters just because of their beliefs is SAME as hating mentally disabled people. What did they do wrong? it was the environment that made them think that way.
Then there are people who are haters because they sincerely believe so. Just like how HIV isn't curable, there are some people you can't convince unless there is a miracle.
Hmm... not so much.
I guess actions say everything.
People in the Middle East who hang homosexuals. I hate them with all of my being and that's because this is completely wrong. If it were someone who just hated gay people, I'd be somewhat more tolerant of that.
But horrible actions can never be tolerated. Men who beat women because they feel superior to them. People who pick on fat kids in schools because they're not skinny. I absolutely hate people like that and I cannot tolerate their actions.
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Intex wrote on 2010-12-18 01:00
Commonly, I see people just ranting back about how wrong they are about their views and ridicule them.
By doing that, not only are the haters upset and more inclined to stick to their views, those people become hypocrites and are just as bad as nazis lynching homosexuals.
You're generalizing that everyone who hates a certain group of people for their beliefs is just blindly pushing ahead. If I hate a religion it's mostly because I've looked into their execution methods, treatment of others, and I am pissed at how inhumane they are acting. Even then I would never hate, for example, all Muslim people. I would however, hate all Muslims who believe stoning is acceptable. I don't see how a complaining hipster is as bad as a nazi who commits murder.
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gentrone wrote on 2010-12-18 01:25
I think haters are just ignorant people who don't deserve my attention.
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-12-18 02:19
I might have had some of my personal bias in the first post, but the main point that I want everyone to get is "Hating on the haters will not get you anywhere".
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-12-18 02:22
Quote from abc33kr;251424:
I might have had some of my personal bias in the first post, but the main point that I want everyone to get is "Hating on the haters will not get you anywhere".
Yup, absolutely true.
That's why there are laws to punish people that commit atrocities like hate crimes and groups that advocate open-mindedness and teach others to be more understanding.
We can't have progress without understanding.
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Intex wrote on 2010-12-18 02:30
Quote from abc33kr;251424:
I might have had some of my personal bias in the first post, but the main point that I want everyone to get is "Hating on the haters will not get you anywhere".
But reasoning and ignoring the haters you're talking about doesn't work and can leave to more trouble. Pure hatred is never going to work out well. Our unified
dislike of ignorant people who segregate and etc. allows us to rally and protest against those haters. Counter protests to Westboro are an example of these groups of people.
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jking012 wrote on 2010-12-18 02:39
Quote from abc33kr;251228:
Commonly, I see people just ranting back about how wrong they are about their views and ridicule them.
By doing that, not only are the haters upset and more inclined to stick to their views, those people become hypocrites and are just as bad as nazis lynching homosexuals.
Next common way would be just ignoring them and seclude them in their own world. This is not as bad as the first response, but this allows haters to intensify on their beliefs. Moderates will become radicals and radicals will become delusional.
The correct way is same as how Christian missionaries (the ones that actually know what the hell they are doing) convert non-believers. Introduce the idea and leave the door open for them to discover/learn about the topic.
Teachers don't teach their students by shoving e=mc^2 or a^2+b^2=c^2 in their throat (at least the teachers that know what the hell they are doing don't). They introduce, educate, and review.
Most of the time, the haters hate because they are told to hate. They just don't think for themselves. Does that make them inherently evil and cold? no, they are just lost sheep in the plains and teachers must guide them into understanding and tolerance. You can't shove tolerance into people's throat (ohh the oxymoron).
This thread was created to hopefully persuade people just hating religions esp christianity because of people who are just confused. Do good teachers ridicule you when you mess up? no, they always give you the opportunity to review and improve. So give that same chance to racists and homophobics. Although it will be extremely difficult to approach them, it will be worth it when you finally move their beliefs.
only 1 problem with that sentence... since when is delusional worse then a radical? O_O... what else could of those Radicals* done besides crash into the twin towers? that would step them up to "Delusional" :P dont take me that serious its more of a joke on your wordplay
Oh and on topic im already tolerant of both of those many of my friends are black, indian and so forth. Allot of my friends in highschool were gay, lesb or bi
no problem's with it :P,
about dealing with the racists and homophobes... idk... for most I find them to just be ignorant people who can't think for themself. Then again allot of this was Community driven back in the the early 1900's and yeah allot of people grew up in racist homes with racist siblings around racist neighbours and the option to think differently never really occured >.> it was life. pretty sad if you ask me
Thank god for ... who was it? Harriet tubman and the underground railway? I can't quite remember >.>
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Zid wrote on 2010-12-18 03:29
I see abc's point though. The whole "being antagonist against those who are on the wrong side" perspective being somewhat... for a lack of a less severe word, hypocritical.
I have to say, intolerance towards those who are wrong does seem to send the wrong message sometimes, and it does, in fact, sometime make the "wrong" people become more attached to whatever their aforementioned belief is. It's the "If people oppose my belief, then I will rebel and keep on pushing more, for it seems like I'm right because of opposition" idea.
Do you think showing hate and hostility to the people who are wrong will make them change faster, or even at all? Sure, we're all trying to say "Hating homosexuals because they're homosexuals" is wrong, but hostility to the other group probably isn't the best course of action, in terms of not being hypocritical about dispelling hate and intolerance.
Ignorance and intolerance towards the people who are wrong... What message is that, besides the message we actually want to get out? "If you hate homosexuals, I will hate you"? That's going to suddenly cause the other person to change?
I think what abc's saying is, there has got to be a better way to approach the people who are wrong.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2010-12-19 23:35
Quote from Phunkie;251250:
Good points.
No, you should never shove your beliefs' into people's mouths. Sometimes you need to convince them, persuade them. Show them the facts, the realities, instead of the false facts they strongly hold onto.
But I want to say that there is nothing right about being a racist, a homophobe, a sexist or any other kind of person who discriminates against others. Discrimination of all form is wrong. One should never grow up with the belief that someone is inferior to you. However, unfortunately, people are indeed raised with these beliefs.
It's up to us to correct them and teach 'em the right ways.
It's just frustrating sometimes. And yes, you cannot convince everyone. Some people will always continue to use violent language against other groups of people. It's something you can't change. But you can change the future generations and ultimately that's what we should all strive for.
1. This is all relative.
2. You are not forced to convince anyone. You are choosing to adjust another persons perspective because you strongly believe that their ideals are incorrect. This is obvious from your "show them the facts" "instead of the false facts" statement.
3. There's nothing factual about Human equality because it's based on the status quo. Culture largely influences your morale compass.
4. Discrimation is not wrong in every form. In the military, we legally discrimate against the handicapped while simultaneously practicing ageism. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with either form of legal discrimation.
5. "It's up to us to correct them and teach 'em the right ways." If you post variations of the same proclimation multiple times, it makes your argument more valid, i've heard.
In response to the thread itself; ignore anyone that rubs you the wrong way. If they become a problem, fight it the proper way by reporting it to a higher authority or by removing the affected persons from any situation that would put yourself or your loved ones in contact with the individuals.
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Lolicon wrote on 2010-12-20 03:30
The Christians who shove Christianity into people's faces make me facepalm. It brings humiliation to me and a lot of other people. I mean, if you're gonna preach, do it right.