Lighntning wand enchant/upgrade vs ego

• gentrone wrote on 2010-12-21 06:20
  Yes, I noticed after.
  
  I'm just offended that you out-right said "don't listen to this guy". I feel that is not a nice way of holding a discussion. I'm sorry if I sounded exasperated.
  
  But, for real, ego wands are good. I used to think they sucked as well. But here is an example:
  
  As I said, damage from ego wands directly transfer unto the spell. Say the wand has something~40 damage and you hit 8 targets with a full charged thunder. Each hit counts for the added damage, so
  
  40*8*5=1600
  
  That's an overall added damage, which makes a difference. In G13, crit compounds with Int damage and wand damage, so it is even more noticeable.
  
  Edit: btw, I said she should consider making an ego, not that egos are the best.
• Justified wrote on 2010-12-21 11:04

  Quote from gentrone;255265:

  As I said, damage from ego wands directly transfer unto the spell. Say the wand has something~40 damage and you hit 8 targets with a full charged thunder. Each hit counts for the added damage, so
  
  40*8*5=1600
  
  That's an overall added damage, which makes a difference. In G13, crit compounds with Int damage and wand damage, so it is even more noticeable.
  
  Edit: btw, I said she should consider making an ego, not that egos are the best.

  
  
  Not true. Wand damage only carries over for Bolt Magic. For Advanced Magic, you need to divide it by (100-Str.Lv). Even at 50 Str, Advance Magic only gains like 2 damage per hit at best.
  
  Wand Egos only shine for Bolts, where they'll be adding quite a bit of damage. I do agree that this is significant enough to consider making a Wand Ego, as there have been many times I wished I still had my Ice Wand. The fact that you need around 30+ Str just to match an upgraded normal weapon makes any Ego lose it's luster.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-12-21 13:10
  Listen bud not to burst your bubble but as a mage I would never even consider and ego wand unless I wanted a fire one for wyvern hunting. In g13 the critical damage boost to normal wands is so incredible that I doubt I could even fathom someone wanting one unless its just to put random items in and get free blessings.
• Justified wrote on 2010-12-21 13:26
  I haven't really looked into G13 stuff too much since the entire thing reeks of disappointment left and right.
  
  Weren't people saying that over-upgrades were so broken that egos as a whole are becoming pretty pointless?
  Since this applies to all weapon types, that doesn't make Ego Wands any more meaningless than some other Ego.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-12-21 15:01

  Quote from gentrone;255245:

  Whatever, Kaeporo. You don't know anything about magic, so keep your opinions for range-related threads.

  
  
  I would suggest that you keep your opinions for magic-related threads, but you obviously don't know anything about magic.
  
  

  Quote from Justified;255486:

  I haven't really looked into G13 stuff too much since the entire thing reeks of disappointment left and right.
  
  Weren't people saying that over-upgrades were so broken that egos as a whole are becoming pretty pointless?
  Since this applies to all weapon types, that doesn't make Ego Wands any more meaningless than some other Ego.

  
  
  The upgrade path for equipment.
  
  1. Normal Upgrade
  2. Normal Upgrade
  3. Normal Upgrade
  4. Normal Upgrade
  5. Normal Upgrade / Artisan Upgrade
  6. Gem Upgrade (x2 if shield)
  7. Special Upgrade
  8. Special Upgrade
  9. Special Upgrade
  10. Special Upgrade (G14)
  11. Special Upgrade (G14)
  12. Special Upgrade (G14)
  
  Normal upgrades are the standard weapon shop upgrades. They provide random weapon-specific bonuses.
  The artisan upgrade can replace the final normal upgrade. It randomly increases or decreases up to four random stats by a large amount.
  Gem upgrades follow normal upgrades/the artisan upgrade. They provide random weapon-specific bonuses.
  Special upgrades follow gem upgrades. They increase either the critical hit multiplier or minimum and maximum damage.
  
  As an example, wands can be over-upgraded to provide up to +62% critical hit damage (212% total) or +18% magic damage.
  
  The Trinity Staff can boost magic damage by at least 31% (10% Normal, 3% Gem, 18%) while bolt damage can be further increased by 15% with three charges. This excludes the artisan upgrade which can provide up to 70 intelligence.
• Zid wrote on 2010-12-21 15:03

  Quote from Justified;255486:

  I haven't really looked into G13 stuff too much since the entire thing reeks of disappointment left and right.
  
  Weren't people saying that over-upgrades were so broken that egos as a whole are becoming pretty pointless?
  Since this applies to all weapon types, that doesn't make Ego Wands any more meaningless than some other Ego.

  
  
  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Special_Upgrade#Upgrade_Bonus
  
  Look under R Type upgrades for Wands/Staves.
  
  Rank 1 Critical Hit with Level 6 R type is +212% max damage upon Critical Hit activation.
  
  Also, you can't mix R and S type upgrades together.
• gentrone wrote on 2010-12-21 16:36

  Quote from Kaeporo;255522:

  I would suggest that you keep your opinions for magic-related threads, but you obviously don't know anything about magic.
  
  
  
  The upgrade path for equipment.
  
  1. Normal Upgrade
  2. Normal Upgrade
  3. Normal Upgrade
  4. Normal Upgrade
  5. Normal Upgrade / Artisan Upgrade
  6. Gem Upgrade (x2 if shield)
  7. Special Upgrade
  8. Special Upgrade
  9. Special Upgrade
  10. Special Upgrade (G14)
  11. Special Upgrade (G14)
  12. Special Upgrade (G14)
  
  Normal upgrades are the standard weapon shop upgrades. They provide random weapon-specific bonuses.
  The artisan upgrade can replace the final normal upgrade. It randomly increases or decreases up to four random stats by a large amount.
  Gem upgrades follow normal upgrades/the artisan upgrade. They provide random weapon-specific bonuses.
  Special upgrades follow gem upgrades. They increase either the critical hit multiplier or minimum and maximum damage.
  
  As an example, wands can be over-upgraded to provide up to +62% critical hit damage (212% total) or +18% magic damage.
  
  The Trinity Staff can boost magic damage by at least 31% (10% Normal, 3% Gem, 18%) while bolt damage can be further increased by 15% with three charges. This excludes the artisan upgrade which can provide up to 70 intelligence.

  
  
  
  That sounds fancy. Talking about percentages obviously makes things look pretty but try using that formula on the spells. They compound with other boosts so in the end that 30%+ becomes 30% of 20% and so on. The critical upgrade is very good, however.
  
  @All I keep my theory of Ego Wand str and Adv Magic. It's not as simple as you put it. And I don't understand why make such a big deal about it, I did not recommend to make an ego weapon over a regular wand, I said it should be considered. Nothing more. I'm not arguing ego wands are better than regular wands either, so why all the hate?
  
  Edit: I've been doing some experiments with a friend whose ego is lvl 16 str. Normally, her ego wand hits more but not more than the max with a regular wand. The only difference is that the ego hits the max most of the time. That leads me to believe that ego balance affects spells and that is why I thought it was more damage (I still there is more to it). I used to think ego wands sucked as well but about two weeks ago I saw another friend hitting more than other people using an ego. I decided to make one myself to test. It indeed makes a difference but I don't know to what extent yet.
• Justified wrote on 2010-12-21 19:25

  Quote from Zid;255523:

  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Special_Upgrade#Upgrade_Bonus
  
  Look under R Type upgrades for Wands/Staves.
  
  Rank 1 Critical Hit with Level 6 R type is +212% max damage upon Critical Hit activation.
  
  Also, you can't mix R and S type upgrades together.

  
  
  Well then that follows with what I said - the Overupgrades are powerful enough to beat even maxed out egos at this point. The +60-100 damage from Sword Egos (2H or 1H alike) doesn't come remotely close to finished R-type upgrades.
  
  Kind of disappointing that Artisan Upgrades don't come after Gem Upgrades. That means we'll have to scrap everything we have now if we want to gamble for a better item.
• GlyphZero wrote on 2010-12-22 14:45
  i like the mention of the trinity staff, as a fire user i wouldn't scrap my ego fire wand for that as i would be running a 30 sec of 30% increased damage at the cost of the ability to chain cast at no additional cost. it'd be like g1-3 all over again, which sucked hard as a fire mage. fire counter ftw. general effectiveness seems neglected here as while you do get +62% increased crit multiplier you need to crit first and have the damage you're ready to crit with ready too. honestly just leave the trinity staff to it's intended use(hail storm, hopefully it's got prot/crit bypass like the inter magics) as it's not wasting someone's combat time that lasts a few seconds to start with.
  
  oh and on the artisan upgrades, have fun gambling on that with wands.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-12-22 15:10
  Well its going to cost a lot to get a perfect one but I'm more than willing to try.
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-12-22 15:13

  Quote from GlyphZero;257560:

  i like the mention of the trinity staff, as a fire user i wouldn't scrap my ego fire wand for that as i would be running a 30 sec of 30% increased damage at the cost of the ability to chain cast at no additional cost. it'd be like g1-3 all over again, which sucked hard as a fire mage. fire counter ftw. general effectiveness seems neglected here as while you do get +62% increased crit multiplier you need to crit first and have the damage you're ready to crit with ready too. honestly just leave the trinity staff to it's intended use(hail storm, hopefully it's got prot/crit bypass like the inter magics) as it's not wasting someone's combat time that lasts a few seconds to start with.
  
  oh and on the artisan upgrades, have fun gambling on that with wands.

  
  
  Hailstorm does not bypass prot for calculating critical but still does total damage higher than that of any magic available.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-12-22 17:30
  I am making a crit set for hailstorm (also range) hopefully it will have incredible damage.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-12-22 23:44
  Besides that ego wands are just plain bad like most people said, just be sure to enchant first before upgrading.
  
  Don't bother with chain casting upgrades on lightning wand as they are just plain bad. Chain Casting Lightning Bolt is rarely useful, and Chain Casting has no effect on advance magic except raising its mana cost.
• Cryosite wrote on 2010-12-24 13:37
  As for those who try to say that a fire wand ego is the only one even remotely useful, lets kill that rumor dead please?
  
  An upgraded +4cc fire wand is far cheaper to get your hands on than the cost of feeding a fire wand ego to enough social to get +4cc. The money you save not feeding the ego will buy you enough mp pots to last a really long time.
  
  And, if that wasn't enough reason, try using mp10's. As long as you have enough mp to cast one bolt for firebolt, you will still get all 5 bolts from chaincast. So for the simple process of cast chug cast chug pattern, you can use either wand for the same mp cost. So the only benefit the wand ego boasts (less mp usage for chaincast firebolt) is a myth.
  
  Though why you'd want to go around using firbolt chaincast is beyond me. Single -target dps isn't important, and is trumped by magnum, smash, and even alchemy. Stick to what magic is best at... annihilating rooms.
  
  All wand egos are bad. They offer nothing worthwhile an upgraded wand can't do better.
• Justified wrote on 2010-12-24 21:16

  Quote from Cryosite;260995:

  As for those who try to say that a fire wand ego is the only one even remotely useful, lets kill that rumor dead please?
  
  An upgraded +4cc fire wand is far cheaper to get your hands on than the cost of feeding a fire wand ego to enough social to get +4cc. The money you save not feeding the ego will buy you enough mp pots to last a really long time.
  
  And, if that wasn't enough reason, try using mp10's. As long as you have enough mp to cast one bolt for firebolt, you will still get all 5 bolts from chaincast. So for the simple process of cast chug cast chug pattern, you can use either wand for the same mp cost. So the only benefit the wand ego boasts (less mp usage for chaincast firebolt) is a myth.
  
  Though why you'd want to go around using firbolt chaincast is beyond me. Single -target dps isn't important, and is trumped by magnum, smash, and even alchemy. Stick to what magic is best at... annihilating rooms.
  
  All wand egos are bad. They offer nothing worthwhile an upgraded wand can't do better.

  
  
  Critting 1.5k+ every 2 seconds in end game places like Peaca is pretty useful. Not saying it's the best, Elf Magnum or Human/Giant Smash can easily trump this using a Crit Set and less pots, but Firebolt spam is extremely easy and doesn't miss or require any timing. You can still pull out Blaze if the mobs are packed together, my Blaze Crits still do around 4-6k with an elemental wand.
  
  People who compare normal CC+4 wands to Egos haven't seen enough raised Wand Egos. Even at a low Str of around 20, I was seeing a significant boost in bolt damage, around 25-50%. Chaincasted at 21 social and you get a huge DPS boost, not even counting the increased Crit chance which is helpful in itself.
  
  
  Also with G13 coming out next month, bolts will be receiving a significant damage boost which could also make Ego Wands more useful. As Glyph said above, Egos may be better than upgraded wands because of the increased Crit rating, the R-type upgrades could be useless in certain situations, and the S-type upgrades may not match up to a raw +80 damage boost.