Bow Ego Questions

• Zatrox wrote on 2010-12-27 21:27
  Two of them. I know this type of Q has been asked a million times, but it doesn't help that Mabiguru's domain is down :mad:
  
  1) Ring or Wing? I plan to use bow ego for Crash Shot, Elven Magic Missile, and maybe the occasional FS+Mag spam. Raw power of Ring or Crit/Range/AtkSpd of Wing?
  
  2) Male or Female? Everyone always says "it doesn't matter" but I'm usually skeptical about that :what: Male has really good feeding options for STR but I heard somewhere that Male has .8x LUK efficiency (vs. Female 1x)? Since I'm looking to use either Ring or Wing I want my ego to have the best all-around growth.
  [SIZE="1"]
  
  (also Kaeporo, if you're reading this, mind explaining the ADACT theory a little better? for example why 1% crit = 1 damage)[/SIZE]
• Yanm wrote on 2010-12-27 21:49

  Quote from Zatrox;264760:

  Two of them. I know this type of Q has been asked a million times, but it doesn't help that Mabiguru's domain is down :mad:
  
  1) Ring or Wing? I plan to use bow ego for Crash Shot, Elven Magic Missile, and maybe the occasional FS+Mag spam. Raw power of Ring or Crit/Range/AtkSpd of Wing?
  
  2) Male or Female? Everyone always says "it doesn't matter" but I'm usually skeptical about that :what: Male has really good feeding options for STR but I heard somewhere that Male has .8x LUK efficiency (vs. Female 1x)? Since I'm looking to use either Ring or Wing I want my ego to have the best all-around growth.
  [SIZE="1"]
  
  (also Kaeporo, if you're reading this, mind explaining the ADACT theory a little better? for example why 1% crit = 1 damage)[/SIZE]

  
  
  This sounds like an Elf. The speed of the Bow would only affect the stun chance, not how fast you shoot. You said the occassional FS+Mag spam. You mean to really spam Crash Shot more than Magnum? I feel that the Wing is the best for Elfs because of their fast magnum, so they need the extra crit.
  
  As far as I know, the Ring Bow get's more damage from luck and will than strength and the wing bow get's the most damage from will, then luck. I think the Female might be better because of the higher luck gain.
• Piko wrote on 2010-12-27 21:54
  Female because you can mod it into a hot maid like I did.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-12-27 23:17
  I did Ringbow for 2 reasons. 1 I don't need to nx repair if I don't want to. 2 I can get crit easier than max damage.
• radionoise wrote on 2010-12-27 23:19
  Wing bow is the best ego for FS+Magnum/Ranged spam or Crash Shot at far ranges. It's good for elves because it has about the same stun as an LLB, faster aiming and lets you use Final Shot at its fullest potential.
  
  If you only plan to spam Crash Shot and Elven Magic Missile and don't mind missing a little range, go Ring bow for the added damage. Magic Missile does ignore protection when calculating critical chance like Crash Shot, or at least the ice/lightning variants do.
  
  If you want convenience, decent range and decent damage for spamming Crash Shot or Elven Magic Missile, Leather Long Bow is just fine... Just keep in mind that in future generations Ego Bows become more useful for the range than in terms of raw damage or crit with the introduction of S/R Type upgrades.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-12-27 23:59
  The wing bow is generally outclassed by the ring bow, imo.
  
  1. Speed is inversely proportional to stun duration. This only affects skills that do not knock back with the exception of Crash Shot.
  
  While Human Archers can fire more quickly using Arrow Revolver (which is near-useless later on), Elven Archers are only hurt by wielding faster ranged weapons because they cannot surpass their refire time, thus removing the advantage of faster weapon speed while decreasing their stun duration.
  
  Skills that are positively affected by improved speed; Arrow Revolver
  Skills that are negatively affected by improved speed; Arrow Revolver, Elven Ranged Attack, Support Shot, Windmill
  
  2. Critical is easily obtained through enchants. Ranged damage is slightly more difficult to obtain. When dual wielding (Humans) skill critical is averaged between the two weapons while damage is additive. Should you decide to obtain a specific critical checkpoint, it's better to dual wield two weapons with high damage and low critical and enchant for critical than to dual wield two weapons with average damage and critical and enchant for damage.
• radionoise wrote on 2010-12-28 00:32

  Quote from Kaeporo;264916:

  2. Critical is easily obtained through enchants. Ranged damage is slightly more difficult to obtain. When dual wielding (Humans) skill critical is averaged between the two weapons while damage is additive. Should you decide to obtain a specific critical checkpoint, it's better to dual wield two weapons with high damage and low critical and enchant for critical than to dual wield two weapons with average damage and critical and enchant for damage.

  
  
  Damage is far easier to obtain through enchants when it comes to bows, though, ideally you end up with ~56% critical and ~100 max ranged damage from enchants alone as of g12 (I'm at 53%/90 at the moment) and this is not taking into account that you can easily get 500 base dex as an elf after a bit of leveling, even without capping skills such as tailoring, blacksmith or enchant.
• Zatrox wrote on 2010-12-29 04:46

  Quote from radionoise;264866:

  
  If you only plan to spam Crash Shot and Elven Magic Missile and don't mind missing a little range, go Ring bow for the added damage. Magic Missile does ignore protection when calculating critical chance like Crash Shot, or at least the ice/lightning variants do.

  
  
  The only reason I said that was because Elf range seems to chew up bow durability really fast. I guess this is more of a concern for the Wing Bow, since it's either NX potions or ~4m/bow repairs. Do you have any input as to how fast FS+Mag eats durability?
  
  

  Quote from Kaeporo;264916:

  Skills that are positively affected by improved speed; Arrow Revolver
  Skills that are negatively affected by improved speed; Arrow Revolver, Elven Ranged Attack, Support Shot, Windmill
  

  
  
  Where do FS+Magnum, Crash Shot, and EMM fall on this list though?
  
  

  Quote from radionoise;264958:

  Damage is far easier to obtain through enchants when it comes to bows, though, ideally you end up with ~56% critical and ~100 max ranged damage from enchants alone as of g12 (I'm at 53%/90 at the moment) and this is not taking into account that you can easily get 500 base dex as an elf after a bit of leveling, even without capping skills such as tailoring, blacksmith or enchant.

  
  
  I think it'd be interesting to figure out whether or not crit caps out as fast as people say it does... :p
  
  ===
  
  Also: How much of a difference does 200 range really make?
• radionoise wrote on 2010-12-29 05:14

  Quote from Zatrox;266709:

  The only reason I said that was because Elf range seems to chew up bow durability really fast. I guess this is more of a concern for the Wing Bow, since it's either NX potions or ~4m/bow repairs. Do you have any input as to how fast FS+Mag eats durability?
  
  
  
  Where do FS+Magnum, Crash Shot, and EMM fall on this list though?
  
  
  
  I think it'd be interesting to figure out whether or not crit caps out as fast as people say it does... :p
  
  ===
  
  Also: How much of a difference does 200 range really make?

  
  
  Kaeporo has some information regarding refire and how it relates to bow speed in his profile, if you're interested in FS+Magnum/Range. As for Crash Shot and Elven Magic Missile, both skills ignore protection and they both have their own stun time so they will perform the same on any bow, the only difference being range and damage.
  
  As for 200 range, it's not as noticeable as the jump from a 2000 range bow to a 2500 range ego, but it's nice to have... You could always try comparing a 2100 range LLB to a 1900 range Long Bow to get a feel of the differences between range and aim speed of the two bows and if it's a trade-off you're willing to make.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-12-29 05:31
  If you tell yourself that you won't get NX to repair your bow, you probably won't use your ego bow very much. Bow spamming kills durability, especially an elf spamming it. If you plan on using it all the time, while Ring Bow will save you NX at the beginning, you are forced to change your mind about repairing it using Ring Bows or change your ego later.
  
  Repairing it the regular way is like 99% success or something. Anyone who been to Eden long enough knows that durability can go down fast even at 98% success. (Or spammed anything at 99% success rate)
  
  Ring Bow is like 87-155 with 37% critical rate. Wing Bow is around 129 max with 54% critical rate difference at level 50. Critical rate is important for range, and Ring Bow has one of the lowest critical rates.
  
  Male vs Female just means you have to choose if you want the easy route now or easy route later.
• Zatrox wrote on 2010-12-29 23:27
  so in short...
  
  

  Quote from EndlessDreams;266792:

  If you tell yourself that you won't get NX to repair your bow, you probably won't use your ego bow very much. Bow spamming kills durability, especially an elf spamming it. If you plan on using it all the time, while Ring Bow will save you NX at the beginning, you are forced to change your mind about repairing it using Ring Bows or change your ego later.
  
  Repairing it the regular way is like 99% success or something. Anyone who been to Eden long enough knows that durability can go down fast even at 98% success. (Or spammed anything at 99% success rate)
  
  Since I'll have to go NX pot anyway I should go Wing Bow
  
  Ring Bow is like 87-155 with 37% critical rate. Wing Bow is around 129 max with 54% critical rate difference at level 50. Critical rate is important for range, and Ring Bow has one of the lowest critical rates.
  
  Wing > Ring due to 17% crit gap
  
  Male vs Female just means you have to choose if you want the easy route now or easy route later.
  
  Male for easy now, Female for easy later
  
  

  
  
  ...right?
  
  26 max vs. 17% crit (and 200 range)...
  guess I need to figure out which one will be easier to get :T_T:
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-12-30 04:46

  Quote from Zatrox;267694:

  so in short...
  
  
  
  ...right?
  
  26 max vs. 17% crit (and 200 range)...
  guess I need to figure out which one will be easier to get :T_T:

  
  
  Yea, pretty much Wing > Ring Bow.
  
  Ring Bow is easier to get than Wing Bow though unless you want some super rare color.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-12-30 05:11
  I can get 17% crit much easier than 26 max.
  
  fundamental ES would be 20 Crit when using the maiz Title (12% without). Fundamental Darkness = 17.5 max 12% crit without title. 5 crit short.
  use Light Lily instead of Precise lily for another 3 crit. 2 crit short
  
  Most people would use a Ancient Darkness 27 max (and harder to get perfect than Fundamental Darkness) so only 10 more max there stil short
  use precise Lily Access for 2 more max. 8 max short
  
  Now the rest of the set normally depends on whether you want more crit or more damage but if you compare its much easier to make up the crit then the max. You do lose 200 range. If your having trouble getting to the crit you want then yes go with wingbow. But ring will be stronger (g13 releases tons of new crit enchants).
• radionoise wrote on 2010-12-30 05:57

  Quote from Archibald;268241:

  I can get 17% crit much easier than 26 max.
  
  fundamental ES would be 20 Crit when using the maiz Title (12% without). Fundamental Darkness = 17.5 max 12% crit without title. 5 crit short.
  use Light Lily instead of Precise lily for another 3 crit. 2 crit short
  
  Most people would use a Ancient Darkness 27 max (and harder to get perfect than Fundamental Darkness) so only 10 more max there stil short
  use precise Lily Access for 2 more max. 8 max short
  
  Now the rest of the set normally depends on whether you want more crit or more damage but if you compare its much easier to make up the crit then the max. You do lose 200 range. If your having trouble getting to the crit you want then yes go with wingbow. But ring will be stronger (g13 releases tons of new crit enchants).

  
  
  It depends on what enchant setup you have in mind, for example:
  
  Light Lilly x2 = 6% critical and 24 max
  Extraordinary White Horse = 3% critical and 14 max
  Composer's Raven = 9% critical and 8 max
  Round Delusional = 12% critical and 10 max
  Steel Needle Dignified = 16% critical and 16 max
  Final Shot Master title = 1.5% critical and 12 max
  
  It adds up to 47.5% critical and 84 max... if you couple that with a Wing Bow, you will have 213 max damage and 101.5% critical from enchants and the Ego alone. If you add 24% critical to account for a player's base (160 will and 40 Luck, for example) you will be able to reach 125.5% critical with a Wing Bow ego and 213 max damage before adding Ranged Attack Mastery/base damage from dexterity.
  
  With the same enchant setup, you would have 239 max damage with 84.5% critical, or 108.5% critical after accounting for the player's base critical. If you wanted to attain the same amount of critical with the Ring Bow ego, you would have to exchange Delusional for Burning (-10 max, +6% critical), Raven for Elegant (-8 max, +5% critical) and Extraordinary for Fearless or Polished (-7 max, +5% critical)... Leaving the Ring Bow ego at a total of 124.5% critical when equipped, and 214 max damage before adding Ranged Attack Mastery/base damage from dexterity.
  
  With that setup, both bows start looking almost exactly alike... but the Wing Bow would come out on top due to its range and refire rate. This is assuming, of course, that as an archer you prioritize having 120~130% critical as you should be doing to begin with.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-12-30 15:17

  Quote from Archibald;268241:

  I can get 17% crit much easier than 26 max.
  
  fundamental ES would be 20 Crit when using the maiz Title (12% without). Fundamental Darkness = 17.5 max 12% crit without title. 5 crit short.
  use Light Lily instead of Precise lily for another 3 crit. 2 crit short
  
  Most people would use a Ancient Darkness 27 max (and harder to get perfect than Fundamental Darkness) so only 10 more max there stil short
  use precise Lily Access for 2 more max. 8 max short
  
  Now the rest of the set normally depends on whether you want more crit or more damage but if you compare its much easier to make up the crit then the max. You do lose 200 range. If your having trouble getting to the crit you want then yes go with wingbow. But ring will be stronger (g13 releases tons of new crit enchants).

  
  
  G13 also releases tons of skills that +dex as well. As monsters get stronger, they have more protection, which often needs more critical. As you progress through the game, your range damage will get stronger and stronger. If you have 300-400+ max damage, you won't know you lost 26 max damage.
  
  I switch between ~260 max damage range and ~310 max damage range using normal bows. I don't notice any significant difference spamming AR/Magnum/CS between those damage range.
  
  Besides, if you have way too much critical, just switch to more +damage gear. Not to mention, Fundamental enchant is from Peaca Basic... You even forget to mention that you only have 1 out of 6 chance to get that +12% critical with that enchant.