Current Int damage and Adv Magic

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gentrone wrote on 2011-01-01 01:44

I'm doing some calculations I would like to show soon but something is bugging me about the current Int damage formula for Adv Magic in general.

If I load Ice Spear five times, does that mean Int damage will stack 5 times as well? If so, does the same work for Fireball (I would guess it does for Thunder).

Btw, I would say yes but I need some more input. Also, feel free to share your thoughts about Int damage in g13.

[SIZE="1"](a preview of my research: focusing on critical hit and artisan, r type and s type upgrades: 1) is the r type upgrade better than the s type considering crit only occurs 30% of the time? 2) Previous Int formula is better if we consider damage only 3) However, pre-g13 Int damage doesn't crit. Therefore 'something'. I need to do some graphs)[/SIZE]
EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-01-01 01:46

5 Charge Ice Spear is actually worth 6.5x charges.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-01 01:48

Quote from EndlessDreams;271483:
5 Charge Ice Spear is actually worth 6.5x charges.

Yes. Does that count for Int damage as well?
EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-01-01 02:07

Quote from gentrone;271487:
Yes. Does that count for Int damage as well?

Can't tell, it is too small to tell.
Zid wrote on 2011-01-01 19:12

Quote from gentrone;271481:
If I load Ice Spear five times, does that mean Int damage will stack 5 times as well? If so, does the same work for Fireball (I would guess it does for Thunder).

Quote from NA wiki:
The damage from Int is not part of your attack's damage range. Instead, it is added on to your attack's damage after defense, protection, and criticals have been calculated.

What it says is, the Intelligence extra damage gets added in the very end, after all the charges. This would make sense, considering Fireball (one-charge mods could prove this).

Quote from gentrone;271481:
[SIZE="1"](a preview of my research: focusing on critical hit and artisan upgrades: 1) is the r type upgrade better than the s type considering crit only occurs 30% of the time? 2) Previous Int formula is better if we consider damage only 3) However, pre-g13 Int damage doesn't crit. Therefore 'something'. I need do some graphs)[/SIZE]

You'll need to look at average damage between R-Type and S-Type then to consider their compared worth.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-02 14:24

Quote from Zid;272385:
What it says is, the Intelligence extra damage gets added in the very end, after all the charges. This would make sense, considering Fireball (one-charge mods could prove this).

If that's correct, then the new Int damage formula is superior (noticeable in full charges).

You'll need to look at average damage between R-Type and S-Type then to consider their compared worth.

Yes and it seems they are all well balanced (although S type seems slightly better). Example:

(I will compare level 4 upgrades because wiki doesn't provide more info on wands)

10 times damage repetition:

S type: +13% Magic Damage.

1.13x+1.13x...(10 times)= 11.3x

Extra calc: crical hit occurs 30% of the time, then (I guess it compounds):

2.5x(1.13)+2.5x(1.13)+2.5x(1.13)+(1.13x...7times)= 16.385x

R type: +38% critical damage

2.88x+2.88x+2.88x+(1x...7 times)= 15.64x
Zid wrote on 2011-01-03 14:35

Kind of don't understand your formulas.

Going with what I know: Average Damage = [Max * Balance + Min * (1 - Balance) + (Critical Rate * Max * Total Critical Multiplier)]

Using pre-G13 r1 Ice Spear (200~300 damage) and 100% Magic Balance...

Lvl 4 S-Type Upgrade (+13% damage -> 226~339 final damage):

[339 * 100%] + [226 * (1 - 100%)] + [(30% * 339 * 150%)] =

339 + 0 + 152.55 =

492 damage on average

Lvl 4 R-Type Upgrade (+38% Critical damage):

[300 * 100%] + [200 * (1 - 100%)] + [(30% * 300 * 188%)] =

300 + 0 + 169.2 =

469 damage on average

This is for one charge of pre-G13 r1 Ice Spear, without considering the original damage upgrades on the wand/staff, damage from Intelligence, damage from Ice Magic Mastery, or damage from enchants.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-04 04:50

Quote from Zid;274455:
Kind of don't understand your formulas.

Going with what I know: Average Damage = [Max * Balance + Min * (1 - Balance) + (Critical Rate * Max * Total Critical Multiplier)]

Using pre-G13 r1 Ice Spear (200~300 damage) and 100% Magic Balance...

Lvl 4 S-Type Upgrade (+13% damage -> 226~339 final damage):

[339 * 100%] + [226 * (1 - 100%)] + [(30% * 339 * 150%)] =

339 + 0 + 152.55 =

492 damage on average

Lvl 4 R-Type Upgrade (+38% Critical damage):

[300 * 100%] + [200 * (1 - 100%)] + [(30% * 300 * 188%)] =

300 + 0 + 169.2 =

469 damage on average

This is for one charge of pre-G13 r1 Ice Spear, without considering the original damage upgrades on the wand/staff, damage from Intelligence, damage from Ice Magic Mastery, or damage from enchants.

It's the same thing, only that

- X=Average damage

- For crit I simply add 2.5x (which is X+X(1.5)) to 0.38x which equals 2.88x, that's the final damage of X in a critical hit with an R type upgrade.

Nevertheless, you have reached the same conclusion as I did: S>R, right?

If I divide average numbers you got, I get R type equals 95% of S (469/492*100).

If I divide multipliers of X (in my formula), I get R type equals 95% of S, exactly your same quotient (15.64x/16.385x*100).

- Int damage and wand upgrades are irrelevant because they remain constant in every situation.
Zid wrote on 2011-01-04 05:12

Quote from gentrone;275315:
Nevertheless, you have reached the same conclusion as I did: S>R, right?

Pretty much. It's why I see a lot of Koreans wield S-Type upgrade on their weapons. Even at level 6, S-Type upgrade still gives a higher average damage than R-Type upgrade. Of course, there will be people who will like extra Critical damage no matter what.

Now, special upgrades for G13 Cylinders, on the other hand, that's a different story. :tea:
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-04 05:14

Haha, really? How so?

/isnotanalchemist
Zid wrote on 2011-01-04 05:19

Quote from gentrone;275341:
Haha, really? How so?

/isnotanalchemist

These four G13 Cylinders, known as Tidal Wave, Volcano, Hurricane, and Earthquake, are affected differently from special upgrades.

Now, I'm no Alchemist either (though I'm planning to try it out next wipe), but the wiki gives interesting results for some of the G13 Cylinders.

For example, Hurricane Cylinder. If you apply R-Type upgrade, it will boost the range of Frozen Blast per level, rather than raise Critical damage. For S-Type upgrade, it increases the duration of Frozen Blast instead of raising damage of Wind Alchemy skills.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-04 05:38

I see. Wait what? Per level?!

>>

<<

Okay, devCat loves Alchemy it seems.