R/s Upgrades: Amount

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Phanterz wrote on 2011-01-06 01:49

The wiki gives a table, but it doesn't specify whether the values are totals or per upgrade.

For example:
R Types' one handed weapons:
Upgrade 1: 4%, Upgrade 2: 11%, Upgrade 3: 18%

Do the effects stack? Is Upgrade 3 33% or 18% extra critical damage?

If they stack...
A 2-handed sword gains 78~156 damage by G14 -_-
Roy Mustang wrote on 2011-01-06 01:50

Someone mentioned in another thread that they do in fact stack.

Check this thread: http://mabination.com/threads/16972-ego-and-g14

Quote from Aubog007;274130:
Btw. the Crit Overupgrade for dual wielding weapons stack. Say it's 16% and another 16%. When you wm you do 32% extra crit damage.
Phanterz wrote on 2011-01-06 02:06

Quote from kingofrunes;278007:
Someone mentioned in another thread that they do in fact stack.

Check this thread: http://mabination.com/threads/16972-ego-and-g14

That means two weapons you are dual wielding have stacking R/S effects, which was to be expected; however, what I really want to know is, if Upgrade 1 has 4% and Upgrade 2 11%, does that amount to a total of 15% after Upgrade 2, or 11%?

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Special_Upgrade < From the chart here.
radionoise wrote on 2011-01-06 02:21

Quote from Phanterz;278066:
That means two weapons you are dual wielding have stacking R/S effects, which was to be expected; however, what I really want to know is, if Upgrade 1 has 4% and Upgrade 2 11%, does that amount to a total of 15% after Upgrade 2, or 11%?

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Special_Upgrade < From the chart here.

The number next to the special upgrade is what gets added to the weapon in total. For example, for bows, +6 S-Type upgrade adds 48 max damage, the effect from previous upgrades gets replaced by this number so the most you can get at the +6 stage will be +48 max damage.
Zatrox wrote on 2011-01-06 02:43

Quote from kingofrunes;278007:
Someone mentioned in another thread that they do in fact stack.

Check this thread: http://mabination.com/threads/16972-ego-and-g14

Let's think about this logically...
All Sp. Upgrades on a 2H: 156
Enchants (necro croc): 37 + 25.6
Full Up'd Leminia: 110

= +329
vs. all 50 2H ego (+238)

I know everybody says egos will be obsolete, but that would just be overkill...
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-06 02:48

Quote from Phanterz;278066:
That means two weapons you are dual wielding have stacking R/S effects, which was to be expected; however, what I really want to know is, if Upgrade 1 has 4% and Upgrade 2 11%, does that amount to a total of 15% after Upgrade 2, or 11%?

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Special_Upgrade < From the chart here.

15%, I think.
Zid wrote on 2011-01-06 03:07

Quote from Phanterz;278005:
The wiki gives a table, but it doesn't specify whether the values are totals or per upgrade.

For example:
R Types' one handed weapons:
Upgrade 1: 4%, Upgrade 2: 11%, Upgrade 3: 18%

Do the effects stack? Is Upgrade 3 33% or 18% extra critical damage?

If they stack...
A 2-handed sword gains 78~156 damage by G14 -_-

I can assure you for a fact they do not stack at all.

It'll be insane for R-type upgrades if they stack. Two-handed swords getting +196% Critical damage for a total of +346% Critical damage?
Phanterz wrote on 2011-01-06 03:08

Quote from gentrone;278142:
15%, I think.

The problem is, if they don't stack, R upgrades appear to be crap, and if they do, S upgrades appear to be overpowered.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-06 03:20

Quote from Phanterz;278165:
The problem is, if they don't stack, R upgrades appear to be crap, and if they do, S upgrades appear to be overpowered.

Oh yeah, Zid is right. What you're seeing there is the total amount per upgrade level.

Marginally, you gain 4% on the 0~0 upgrade, 7% on the 0~1, 7% on the 2~3, and so on. These percentages stack like wand upgrades.
Justified wrote on 2011-01-06 03:29

Quote from Phanterz;278165:
The problem is, if they don't stack, R upgrades appear to be crap, and if they do, S upgrades appear to be overpowered.

Appearing to be crap, and actually being crap are different.

2H R-Type 6 = +62% Critical
Suppose you can Smash for (a measly) 1000 damage. +62% is an extra 620 damage when you crit. More damage means more bonus.

2H S-Type 6 = 48 Damage
On a Crit, that only adds 120 damage. No more, no less.

Also, I hear that Dual Wielding R-Type Upgrades do not stack. Similar to how Balance, Critical, and Injury are all averaged when using single-hit skills.
Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-06 06:09

Quote from Justified;278211:
Appearing to be crap, and actually being crap are different.

2H R-Type 6 = +62% Critical
Suppose you can Smash for (a measly) 1000 damage. +62% is an extra 620 damage when you crit. More damage means more bonus.

2H S-Type 6 = 48 Damage
On a Crit, that only adds 120 damage. No more, no less.

and to put it in further perspective, since crits can happen ideally 30% of the time and no more, 620*0.3= 186 average damage. Still bigger than the S-types contribution to average damage. I'd argue that is only for smashes, but since this is a 2hs we're discussing, that is the implied use of the weapon. R-type vs S-type comparisons of upgrades for other styles of weapons might have different weights based on their usage.

Quote from Justified;278211:
Also, I hear that Dual Wielding R-Type Upgrades do not stack. Similar to how Balance, Critical, and Injury are all averaged when using single-hit skills.

While damage is not averaged, but applied to the apprioptiate place in the formula base+weapon1+weapon2*kill multiplier. While the R-type upgrades are based on crits (which lends weight to them being averaged) they are a damage upgrade (if not precisely of the min/max variety, lends weight ot them not being averaged).
Phanterz wrote on 2011-01-06 06:40

Quote from Justified;278211:
Appearing to be crap, and actually being crap are different.

2H R-Type 6 = +62% Critical
Suppose you can Smash for (a measly) 1000 damage. +62% is an extra 620 damage when you crit. More damage means more bonus.

2H S-Type 6 = 48 Damage
On a Crit, that only adds 120 damage. No more, no less.

Also, I hear that Dual Wielding R-Type Upgrades do not stack. Similar to how Balance, Critical, and Injury are all averaged when using single-hit skills.

To use the R-types, you need enough critical to critical on Smashes, which somewhat means that you need to use critical enchants.
The difference requires higher max damage at the G13 3-upgrade cap though.
Justified wrote on 2011-01-06 07:51

Suprised nobody noticed this, but I didn't multiply the S-Type upgrade for Smash. The average damage for S-Type in that scenario is about double the R-Type.

With some math, we can find what kind of damage you'd need for the S-Type to be better.
[ (Damage * 0.7) + (Damage * 3.12 * 0.3) ] = [ (Damage+48 * .7) + (Damage+48 * 2.5 * .3) ]
1.636 * Damage = 1.45 * Damage+48
1.128 * Damage = Damage + 48
0.128 * Damage = 48
Damage = 374.19

So, for 2H weapons (regardless of attack), if you have over 374 damage the R-Type Crit Bonus is better. If you have less, then the S-Type 48 Damage is better.
Assuming you can crit.
Iyasenu wrote on 2011-01-06 07:56

Ew, it'd be pricey to get to the sixth upgrade...

We can't get to the 6th anyways, right? Isn't it capped at like 3 or something until G14?
Aubog007 wrote on 2011-01-06 08:49

Ignore this. I misread it.

But i will say this.

For dual wielding weapons the effects "stack"