Annihilator wrote on 2011-01-21 09:03
This is a copypaste from what I posted on my guild forum, so I apologize for any formatting errors. I'm posting this here because Nexon's forums failed to format it correctly. All credit goes to me
First, this:
Comparing Dragon Fang, Dustin Silver Knight Sword
Dustin Silver Knight Sword
　　Possible upgrade paths:
　　　　215 + Gem = 34~104, crit 17 bal 25
　　　　215 - UG #5 + Artisan UG + gem = 39~94 crit 17 bal 25
　　　　　　Art UG = +15 STR = +6 dmg
　　　　　　　　= 39~100 crit 17 bal 25
+ Perfect Untamed Destruction = + 9~42
　　= 43~146, crit 17 bal 25
Dragon Fang
　　Upgrade Path:
　　　　20~92, crit 8 bal 20
　　　　　　+70 str = +28 dmg +23 min dmg
　　　　　　　　= 43~120 crit 8 bal 20
+ Untamed Violent = + 36
　　Also +5% crit. -20 luck would be -4% crit but I have 0 luck due to title anyway.
　　　　= 20~156, crit 13 bal 20
Comparison
Assume base damage of 80~100, balance 80%, no special upgrades
With Dragon Fang:
256 x 6 x 2.5 = 3840 max smash damage
______________
123~256 (80% balance) = 239.4
x 6 x 2.5 = 3591 avg smash damage
With DSKS:
246 x 6 x 2.5 = 3690 max smash damage
_____________________
123~246 (80% balance) = 221.4 avg damage
x 6 x 2.5 = 3321 avg smash damage
Conclusion: Dragon fang is clearly superior with like 200 more average damage,, yet has a bit less crit than the Dustin here. Had the Fang had the same enchants, it would have been higher still, maybe even significantly, but that enchant set is quite difficult to get. Either way, this sword is definitely a beast compared to the other one.
Next I'm going to be testing the critsmash of this sword vs that of dual artisan upgrade battle swords. I have a feeling that the latter are going to win...effectively eliminating the need for a seperate smashing weapon. The downside, though, is that artisan upgrade battle swords are complete dex eaters...
**** formatting, I'll do it later.
Dual battle swords vs dragon fang
BS artisan upgrade:
Maximum HP: +2 ~ +5
Maximum Stamina: +2 ~ +5
Strength: +1 +70
Dex: -24 ~ -40
Luck: +15 ~ +75
Basically we're looking at hax str and hax crit here, with an absolutely insane loss of balance.
The balance is ALREADY completely ****ty on these swords as well...this seems to be the main downside here.
Attack 6-79 Critical 24%
Balance 7%
Goddess:
-5 HP
-5 Stamina
+10 Str
+10 Will
+8 Max Damage
+5 Min Damage
+10x Repair Cost
Caliburn:
+10 MP
+10 Max Damage
+10% Critical
+10x Repair Cost
So including the damage from the STR boost, we got:
Attack 14-98 Critical 35%
Balance 7%
Assuming perfect artisan upgrades we get +75 luck, +70 strength, and -24 dex
Attack 34-126 Critical 50%
Balance 1%
Keep in mind that the balance could get as much as twice as bad...
Let's try a smash...with two of these:
Attack 14-98 Critical 35%
Balance 7%
Assume 80~100 base damage, and 80% balance because we have 7,000 dex and are awesome like that.
+150 luck, +140 strength, makes our base smash damage 352 and gives us an extra 30% critical. I'm guessing most people would have around 100% critical at least...
352 x 5 x 2.5 = [size=150]4400 damage[/size]
As for average damage,
Base smash damage = 70-352 = 295.6
x5 x 2.5 = 3695
This is comparable to that of a Dustin sword, but not quite that of the Dragon Fang. Also, the crit on the battle swords...I mean holy ****. But...the dex. x.x That's the biggest downfall right here. Luckily, with combat mastery and sword mastery at rank 1, we do get +30% free balance even if our dexterity is zero, but that's still quite a huge blow. Obviously, for higher-leveled dungeons and shadow missions, things haven't changed at all and windmill is still superior, but with these swords smash might actually be feasible, whereas the dragon fang still has meager crit and probably wouldn't be especially helpful. Of course, this is assuming that we get perfect rolls, which is almost completely impossible even with ****loads of NX to blow. There are just so many factors in this comparison that one would pretty much have to compare these weapons side-by-side in a real test to see which is really more effective.
Any thoughts?
Iyasenu wrote on 2011-01-21 09:10
Crit smashing sounds so hard.
But I have abysmal Crit. xD
That's a buncha damage though.
Kenero wrote on 2011-01-21 09:10
Quote from Annihilator;299324:
This is a copypaste from what I posted on my guild forum, so I apologize for any formatting errors. I'm posting this here because Nexon's forums failed to format it correctly. All credit goes to me
First, this:
Comparing Dragon Fang, Dustin Silver Knight Sword
Dustin Silver Knight Sword
　　Possible upgrade paths:
　　　　215 + Gem = 34~104, crit 17 bal 25
　　　　215 - UG #5 + Artisan UG + gem = 39~94 crit 17 bal 25
　　　　　　Art UG = +15 STR = +6 dmg
　　　　　　　　= 39~100 crit 17 bal 25
+ Perfect Untamed Destruction = + 9~42
　　= 43~146, crit 17 bal 25
Dragon Fang
　　Upgrade Path:
　　　　20~92, crit 8 bal 20
　　　　　　+70 str = +28 dmg +23 min dmg
　　　　　　　　= 43~120 crit 8 bal 20
+ Untamed Violent = + 36
　　Also +5% crit. -20 luck would be -4% crit but I have 0 luck due to title anyway.
　　　　= 20~156, crit 13 bal 20
Comparison
Assume base damage of 80~100, balance 80%, no special upgrades
With Dragon Fang:
256 x 6 x 2.5 = 3840 max smash damage
______________
123~256 (80% balance) = 239.4
x 6 x 2.5 = 3591 avg smash damage
With DSKS:
246 x 6 x 2.5 = 3690 max smash damage
_____________________
123~246 (80% balance) = 221.4 avg damage
x 6 x 2.5 = 3321 avg smash damage
Conclusion: Dragon fang is clearly superior with like 200 more average damage,, yet has a bit less crit than the Dustin here. Had the Fang had the same enchants, it would have been higher still, maybe even significantly, but that enchant set is quite difficult to get. Either way, this sword is definitely a beast compared to the other one.
Next I'm going to be testing the critsmash of this sword vs that of dual artisan upgrade battle swords. I have a feeling that the latter are going to win...effectively eliminating the need for a seperate smashing weapon. The downside, though, is that artisan upgrade battle swords are complete dex eaters...
**** formatting, I'll do it later.
Dual battle swords vs dragon fang
BS artisan upgrade:
Maximum HP: +2 ~ +5
Maximum Stamina: +2 ~ +5
Strength: +1 +70
Dex: -24 ~ -40
Luck: +15 ~ +75
Basically we're looking at hax str and hax crit here, with an absolutely insane loss of balance.
The balance is ALREADY completely ****ty on these swords as well...this seems to be the main downside here.
Attack 6-79 Critical 24%
Balance 7%
Goddess:
-5 HP
-5 Stamina
+10 Str
+10 Will
+8 Max Damage
+5 Min Damage
+10x Repair Cost
Caliburn:
+10 MP
+10 Max Damage
+10% Critical
+10x Repair Cost
So including the damage from the STR boost, we got:
Attack 14-98 Critical 35%
Balance 7%
Assuming perfect artisan upgrades we get +75 luck, +70 strength, and -24 dex
Attack 34-126 Critical 50%
Balance 1%
Keep in mind that the balance could get as much as twice as bad...
Let's try a smash...with two of these:
Attack 14-98 Critical 35%
Balance 7%
Assume 80~100 base damage, and 80% balance because we have 7,000 dex and are awesome like that.
+150 luck, +140 strength, makes our base smash damage 352 and gives us an extra 30% critical. I'm guessing most people would have around 100% critical at least...
352 x 5 x 2.5 = [size=150]4400 damage[/size]
As for average damage,
Base smash damage = 70-352 = 295.6
x5 x 2.5 = 3695
This is comparable to that of a Dustin sword, but not quite that of the Dragon Fang. Also, the crit on the battle swords...I mean holy ****. But...the dex. x.x That's the biggest downfall right here. Luckily, with combat mastery and sword mastery at rank 1, we do get +30% free balance even if our dexterity is zero, but that's still quite a huge blow. Obviously, for higher-leveled dungeons and shadow missions, things haven't changed at all and windmill is still superior, but with these swords smash might actually be feasible, whereas the dragon fang still has meager crit and probably wouldn't be especially helpful. Of course, this is assuming that we get perfect rolls, which is almost completely impossible even with ****loads of NX to blow. There are just so many factors in this comparison that one would pretty much have to compare these weapons side-by-side in a real test to see which is really more effective.
Any thoughts?
Thing is, for Dragon Fang, it isn't meant to be used with red upgrades, since it will have near 0% critical chance so it's best to use blue upgrade stones with it.
Jando wrote on 2011-01-21 09:42
Goddess/Wyllow Spike/Horn would be better to use over Goddess Caliburn. The -dex artisan upgrades lower balance between 6-10, 12-20 dual wielding so you aren't hurt that much. Any person with r1 Combat Mastery and r1 Sword Mastery (30% balance) and 280 dex (70% balance) to perfectly don 80% balance with 2 -40dex Battle swords.
Justified wrote on 2011-01-21 10:03
And here's
my notes.
Base damage
600 * 0.4 = 240
240 + 95 = 335
Dual Warswords (Willow-Horn)
335 + 120 + 120 = 570
575 * 5 * 2.92 = 8,395 (88.97%)
Bastard Ego + Elsinore
335 + 179 + 180 = 714
714 * 5 * 2.5 = 8,925 (94.60%)
Highlander Claymore (Necro-Croc)
335 + 169 = 504
504 * 6 * 3.12 = 9,434 (100.00%)
Dustin Sword Ego
335 + 243 = 578
578 * 6 * 2.5 = 8,670 (91.90%)
If you're aiming solely for Smash damage, a 2H still has it's place in endgame. Depends on the protection of the mobs, though there are much better alternative weapons than the Dustin Sword and Dragon Fang that are overlooked by most players.
Some of the math is wrong as later explained in the thread... though the entire guide is a good read for anybody who still doubts two-handers.