Magic % calculations! >:D

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Akemii wrote on 2011-01-23 10:11

I just wanna know how much of a boost it does.

I mean 15 from ice mastery, 15 from stage 3 staff, and 10% from upgraded staff

How much damage would Hailstorm do at rank F? with 400 int or whatever

Just wondering if it'll add up to actual 40% of it it's weird like Mana reduction set and wand reduce since a 24% mana reduce wand doesnt become 34% with mana reduce set xD

Hope it doesn't apply to Magic ATtack % too :/
Majikaru wrote on 2011-01-23 14:31

The 15% from stage 3 staff only applies to bolt magic.

I'm not a mage myself, so someone else could answer your question.
Iyasenu wrote on 2011-01-23 14:33

Yeah well it'd be good if it worked like mana reduc did (multiplicative) since the numbers keep getting higher.

The only reason it's not as good for mana reduc being multiplicative instead of additive, is cuz the numbers keep getting smaller, therefore the changes keep getting smaller.

But it is multiplicative with magic % boosts.

So it'd be 1.00(base damage) x 1.15 (ice mastery) x [s]1.15(stage 3 ice staff)[/s] 1.10(damage upgrades) x 1.20(20 magic from 400 int)
So 1.518x damage.
(at least that's what I got from multiplying all that.)

You could always wear the ice magic master title to boost it more. xD
Chiyuri wrote on 2011-01-23 14:47

Quote from Iyasenu;301654:
Yeah well it'd be good if it worked like mana reduc did (multiplicative) since the numbers keep getting higher.

The only reason it's not as good for mana reduc being multiplicative instead of additive, is cuz the numbers keep getting smaller, therefore the changes keep getting smaller.

Actually some test has been made ever since G13 arrival that proove that not all mana reduction are multiplicative and that some of it is additive.
Mana Reduction Armor effect(10%) and Elemental mastery mana reduction effect(rank 1 20%) are additive.

An entire Hailstorm cost 170 mana. and rank 1 Ice Spear for human cost 32 mana.
Using my Mana reduction Armor and my rank 1 ice mastery, Hailstorm only cost me 120 mana and ice spear only cost me a little over 22 mana.
120 mana is 70% of 170 mana. A little over 22 mana is 70% of 32 mana.
Iyasenu wrote on 2011-01-23 15:02

Quote from Chiyuri;301656:
Actually some test has been made ever since G13 arrival that proove that not all mana reduction are multiplicative and that some of it is additive.
Mana Reduction Armor effect(10%) and Elemental mastery mana reduction effect(rank 1 20%) are additive.

An entire Hailstorm cost 170 mana. and rank 1 Ice Spear for human cost 32 mana.
Using my Mana reduction Armor and my rank 1 ice mastery, Hailstorm only cost me 120 mana and ice spear only cost me a little over 22 mana.
120 mana is 70% of 170 mana. A little over 22 mana is 70% of 32 mana.

Well then that makes it weird.

Which damage boosts are additive and which are multiplicative. D:
Justified wrote on 2011-01-23 15:54

Quote from Iyasenu;301659:
Well then that makes it weird.

Which damage boosts are additive and which are multiplicative. D:

It makes sense because masteries are permanent Mana Cost Reductions, not Usage. I overlooked that in my previous posts.

If you believe what NA Wiki says, then Magic Attack (Int and Enchants) are additive, and all other boosts (Masteries and Upgrades) are additive. Those two totals are multiplicative.

So for example...
600 Int = 30 MATK
Mana Needle enchant = 2 MATK
Rank 1 Ice Mastery = +15%
Rank 1 Magic Mastery = +15%
Rank 1 Bolt Mastery = +15%
Upgraded Crown Ice Wand = +28%
Special Upgraded S3 = +9%
(1 + 0.30 + 0.02) x (1 + 0.15 + 0.15 + 0.15 + 0.28 + 0.09) = 1.32 x 1.82 = x2.402 Damage

It's still less than having everything independent...
1.30 x 1.02 x 1.15 x 1.15 x 1.15 x 1.28 x 1.09 = x2.814 Damage

At OP...
Ice Mastery = 15%
Magic Mastery = 15%
Upgraded Staff = 10%
400 Int = 20%

(1 + 0.20) x (1 + 0.15 + 0.15 + 0.10) = 1.20 x 1.40 = x1.68 Damage for Hailstorm
Iyasenu wrote on 2011-01-23 16:09

Magic Mastery Gives magic attack?
Justified wrote on 2011-01-23 16:42

Quote from Iyasenu;301679:
Magic Mastery Gives magic attack?

Supposedly, it gives a hidden damage boost to all magic, just like it gives magic balance.
Akemii wrote on 2011-01-23 16:49

1.5 more damage for hailstorm since staff at stage 3 doesn't acount anymore D:

Did i do math wrong?
Mystickskye wrote on 2011-01-24 11:34

Seeing as Maji posted here but didn't mention it... apparently on JP, users have found that the Magic Mastery Master Title (+5%) gives a greater boost than Bolt Mastery Master Title (+15%). No one's sure of the reason yet but a popular view is that the Bolt Mastery title will only modify the base bolt damage whereas the Magic Mastery title goes above if not on top of everything else.
Justified wrote on 2011-01-29 11:24

~
TL:DR - All mana usage/cost effects appear to be multiplicative.

Quote from Chiyuri;301656:
Actually some test has been made ever since G13 arrival that proove that not all mana reduction are multiplicative and that some of it is additive.
Mana Reduction Armor effect(10%) and Elemental mastery mana reduction effect(rank 1 20%) are additive.

I'm actually contesting your "tests" since I just now got Rank 1 Fire Mastery.

With Rank 1 Fireball, Rank 1 Fire Mastery (-20%), and Mana Reduction (-10%), I use 18MP per charge, total of 90MP per Fireball.
25 (0.9) (0.8) = 18MP // 125 (0.9) (0.8) = 90MP

According to what you said, they should be added together (30%).
25 (0.7) = 17.5MP // 125 (0.7) = 87.5MP

I am sure this is not the case.

You said you use 120MP for Hailstorm.
170 (0.7) = 119MP

If it was multiplicative...
170 (0.9) (0.8) = 122.4MP

The thing you're forgetting, is that MP regenerates at 1 point per 20 seconds (or 3 per minute) for humans. This is significant because hailstorm takes 30 seconds to cast, meaning you'd regenerate 1.5MP while casting.
119MP (-30%) -> 117.5MP
122.4MP (-20% -10%) -> 120.9MP

The multiplicative one is closer to actual use.

Lastly for Ice Spear...
32 (0.7) = 22.4MP // 32 (0.9) (0.8) = 23MP

The difference is only 0.6MP, which rules it out as a viable test matter since we can't see decimals.
Chiyuri wrote on 2011-01-29 13:20

Quote from Justified;309374:
~
TL:DR - All mana usage/cost effects appear to be multiplicative.

I'm actually contesting your "tests" since I just now got Rank 1 Fire Mastery.

With Rank 1 Fireball, Rank 1 Fire Mastery (-20%), and Mana Reduction (-10%), I use 18MP per charge, total of 90MP per Fireball.
25 (0.9) (0.8) = 18MP // 125 (0.9) (0.8) = 90MP

According to what you said, they should be added together (30%).
25 (0.7) = 17.5MP // 125 (0.7) = 87.5MP

I am sure this is not the case.

You said you use 120MP for Hailstorm.
170 (0.7) = 119MP

If it was multiplicative...
170 (0.9) (0.8) = 122.4MP

The thing you're forgetting, is that MP regenerates at 1 point per 20 seconds (or 3 per minute) for humans. This is significant because hailstorm takes 30 seconds to cast, meaning you'd regenerate 1.5MP while casting.
119MP (-30%) -> 117.5MP
122.4MP (-20% -10%) -> 120.9MP

The multiplicative one is closer to actual use.

Lastly for Ice Spear...
32 (0.7) = 22.4MP // 32 (0.9) (0.8) = 23MP

The difference is only 0.6MP, which rules it out as a viable test matter since we can't see decimals.

My internet isn't the greatess. I use more mana than I should because of some small lag. So I base mosto f my test with minimal mana.
I empty out my mana pool and wait for it to fill up. As my mana pool fill up, I'm spamming the skill to see when I can begin casting it. Even if I lag and use up more mana when casting.. my lag shouldn't affect when the game start letting me cast magic.
By spamming Hailstorm.. it start casting the moment I get 35 mana in my mana pool.
As for Decimal counting on ice spear... Day time without meditation on an human.. mana recovery is pretty slow. I count at a tempo of 29-30 each day time mana. my mana goes from 2 to 3 when I end my 29 or count 30. Over repeated test.. I got a stable tempo for counting smaller dose of mana.
When trying to cast ice spear.. I click ice spear every count I do. I can begin casting ice spear at 22 mana and 12 count (12 count been 0.4 mana)

Anyway for your fireball. I don't know what kind of test you did but it's possible ya having casting lag which make you use up more mana like me.
While I call it lag.. other than my mana casting using more mana than it should, it doesn't feel like it's affecting me in combat or anything else ingame.
Try testing your fireball by casting it with the lowest amount of mana you can have.. start at 10 mana then start spamming fireball skill. You'll see that it's probably not gonig to cast at exactly 18 mana or so I think. My fire mage doesn't have mana reduction armor Nor trainibg fire mastery as of yet so it's not liek I can test this fireball myself..
Akemii wrote on 2011-01-29 16:03

Okay I'm gonna ask another question! What is "Magic Damage"

My staff is upgraded S3 meaning Magic Damage 9+. How much does that affect my magic attacks?
Iyasenu wrote on 2011-01-29 16:14

Quote from Pride;309501:
Okay I'm gonna ask another question! What is "Magic Damage"

My staff is upgraded S3 meaning Magic Damage 9+. How much does that affect my magic attacks?

Shouldn't it be a % boost of the damage magic deals?
It'd be so lame if it was just... 9 flat points.
Akemii wrote on 2011-01-29 16:20

Quote from Iyasenu;309519:
Shouldn't it be a % boost of the damage magic deals?
It'd be so lame if it was just... 9 flat points.

Wiki says 9%. Which is why i went and wasted a lot of money in upgrades stones and attempts. It only says Magic Damage +9 though.

Thought i was getting a 21% boots D:

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