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chaolin wrote on 2011-01-24 09:44
I'd like to start raising this skill but I don't have much MP (around 100...) and I don't have trans either... Some ideas I have are:
Get some mana enchants. Smart Will O' the Wisp Goggle Cap, Wizard Metal Lightning Wand, etc. Are there any enchantments that aren't too difficult to get and burn?
Fully upgrade a metal lightning wand to reduce mana consumption by 40%.
Ranking Meditation. I can't rank Magic Mastery any higher to keep my CP low and meditation is the next best skill for gaining MP.
Get trans? Q _ Q
Get a better title? (Currently using Explorer of Rano)
That's all I have... I would love advice since I'm trying to get all the way to the mastery title. Some important character information:
Rank Novice Thunder
No Fireball (working on it...)
No Ice Spear
No Trans
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-24 09:48
first off... get trans. second off, why are you concerned about your cp?
Rank thunder itself. that raises mp by a rather good amount.
Rank alchemy mastery. not only will it give you mp, it will also raise your success rate/crystal efficiency.
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chaolin wrote on 2011-01-24 09:51
Quote from Cryosite;302683:
first off... get trans. second off, why are you concerned about your cp?
Rank thunder itself. that raises mp by a rather good amount.
Rank alchemy mastery. not only will it give you mp, it will also raise your success rate/crystal efficiency.
Don't a number of alchemy skills require awful, boss, etc kills? Why make training water cannon/frozen blast/flame burst/life drain harder?
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Username wrote on 2011-01-24 11:57
Quote from chaolin;302684:
Don't a number of alchemy skills require awful, boss, etc kills? Why make training water cannon/frozen blast/flame burst/life drain harder?
Yes; Alchemy Combat skills tend to have awful and boss requirements. However, if your just doing mana crystilzation for the MP title; then rank AM to Rank 2 until you can get high enough crystals to rank 1. Also have people do them for you; like you request their charges if your aiming for higher level crystals.
Title? Look for a High MP title or for Magic Master Title to increase crystal ranks
Trans? Yes; A good supply of MP.
If you try this at level 1, use your mp if its high enough, punt a mob, level 2, use all the mp, punt a mob. Keep going until it takes some time to level.
To make it easier if you dont got friends to help, get IS and Fireball yourself; and if your doing Mana as a priority, its best to get Ice spear done for less MP cost in total.
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-01-24 12:13
Quote from chaolin;302684:
Don't a number of alchemy skills require awful, boss, etc kills? Why make training water cannon/frozen blast/flame burst/life drain harder?
Besides getting transformation before you doing anything else, if you are that afraid of CP, getting Ice Spear would be the better idea. It cost like 150 CP at rank 1. However, if you don't have transformation, chances are that you are very low level, which means that Ice Spear might be much harder to get than Thunder for you.
You are over worrying about CP. There are monsters in shadow missions for other difficulties that have higher cp for various training.
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Omegatronic wrote on 2011-01-24 13:38
As much as I love my Mana Crystallization, I really must ask why do you want to raise it?
1. It won't be particularly useful to you (for it's primary function) unless you have a high ranked Int magic of your own, or have one or more good friends willing to let you steal their high level spells. If you have one or more good friends willing to let you steal their high level spells, why are you worried about mana for raising it?
2. If you are doing it for mana, there are other alchemy skills that give better a mana to AP ratio, including Alchemy Mastery. AM is far more useful to the Alchemist than MaCr.
3. If you are doing it for the title, LOL. The "Use a rank 1 crystal ..." requirement will be a nightmare. r1 crystals require a pretty strong mage doing the casting. So, unless you have them already, or good friends who are strong mages, you are not ready to get the title.
4. If you are wanting to begin training it for that r2 Alchy Mastery grind, wait until you are r2. Try to develop friendships with a mage type that uses ice spear. Between the new damage formula, ice mastery, and red gem upgrades for (crown ice) wands, it is easier than ever to hit the 2,3,4 sweet spot. Wait until you are ready for the 1190 crystal grind, ask your friend with the max ice damage for a test of your current MaCr rank. If you hit r4 crystals, you don't need to rank it anymore. If you do not, rank MaCr once and test again. (rinse and repeat).
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Oizen wrote on 2011-01-24 13:45
Its simple what you need to do, first off
-Mana Crystalization is USELESS with out advanced magic. Get advanced magic, or some one who has it first.
-Assuming you're human, get the Dark Knight transformation, more MP and INT then paladin
- If you're elf or giant, your selection isn't hard to make now is it?
-Ice Spear is the most MP efficent, CP efficent adv magic skill there is, and its the best for training mana crystalization
-Rank Transmutation along with it, more mp and higher success rate.
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chaolin wrote on 2011-01-24 17:28
Quote from EndlessDreams;302722:
Besides getting transformation before you doing anything else, if you are that afraid of CP, getting Ice Spear would be the better idea. It cost like 150 CP at rank 1. However, if you don't have transformation, chances are that you are very low level, which means that Ice Spear might be much harder to get than Thunder for you.
You are over worrying about CP. There are monsters in shadow missions for other difficulties that have higher cp for various training.
Yeah, I'm a pretty low level... Around 220. I either need to make some money or make some gracious friends to get ice spear. Both the overall and ice spear CP information is a nice relief, thanks :)
Quote from Omegatronic;302746:
As much as I love my Mana Crystallization, I really must ask why do you want to raise it?
1. It won't be particularly useful to you (for it's primary function) unless you have a high ranked Int magic of your own, or have one or more good friends willing to let you steal their high level spells. If you have one or more good friends willing to let you steal their high level spells, why are you worried about mana for raising it?
2. If you are doing it for mana, there are other alchemy skills that give better a mana to AP ratio, including Alchemy Mastery. AM is far more useful to the Alchemist than MaCr.
3. If you are doing it for the title, LOL. The "Use a rank 1 crystal ..." requirement will be a nightmare. r1 crystals require a pretty strong mage doing the casting. So, unless you have them already, or good friends who are strong mages, you are not ready to get the title.
4. If you are wanting to begin training it for that r2 Alchy Mastery grind, wait until you are r2. Try to develop friendships with a mage type that uses ice spear. Between the new damage formula, ice mastery, and red gem upgrades for (crown ice) wands, it is easier than ever to hit the 2,3,4 sweet spot. Wait until you are ready for the 1190 crystal grind, ask your friend with the max ice damage for a test of your current MaCr rank. If you hit r4 crystals, you don't need to rank it anymore. If you do not, rank MaCr once and test again. (rinse and repeat).
I suppose the main incentive to train it is a means to raise transmutation and alchemy mastery before heading over to synthesis/defrag. The real thing I'm after is better success rates for fragmentation and crystal making in general. Other than that, the reason is solely cause I want to. Sorry if it's a dumb reason >_<
With the advice of everyone in mind, my first step in training this lengthy skill should be to raise alchemy mastery as high as possible by making blizzard crsytals? The second step would then be to acquire transformation and ice spear.
Quote from OizenX;302749:
Its simple what you need to do, first off
-Mana Crystalization is USELESS with out advanced magic. Get advanced magic, or some one who has it first.
-Assuming you're human, get the Dark Knight transformation, more MP and INT then paladin
- If you're elf or giant, your selection isn't hard to make now is it?
-Ice Spear is the most MP efficent, CP efficent adv magic skill there is, and its the best for training mana crystalization
-Rank Transmutation along with it, more mp and higher success rate.
Right, I will do my best to get Ice spear and trans ASAP.
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-24 18:06
Also, since you'll be needing to complete several quests in order to get your trans, and you'll be needing ot either earn a couple mil in gold for ice spear and/or get strong enough (or get strong enough friends) to run some fairly hard dungeons... yeah.
Rank your thunder. Accept that your CP is going to go up, but so what. Thunder is a powerful and manaeefficient spell, and you already have it at novice. Ranking it will also improve your mp, one of your other goals. Ice spear won't do that for you.
I'll repeat: accept that your CP is going to raise, no matter what you do (well, almost). That is part of the process of getting stronger. With that in mind, accept also that oyu will want to get oyur hands on some gear that lowers your CP. It is pointless to try to remain weak to train skills that make you stronger, when being stronger will help you train your skills better. Check Zyrus' guide on how to get some -cp gear here on mabination in the guides section. the pieces that are -100 for light armor, and gloves are very easy to get. Rank your thunder a bit while hunting for those enchants, and you should have an easy time of it. Use your growing thunder skill to help you get through the quests for transformation skill. Use thunder to raft and get you explore levels more easily than most other methods, which translates to more AP for you. Basically use thunder to make everything in your mabi game easier to do.
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chaolin wrote on 2011-01-24 18:27
Quote from Cryosite;302914:
Also, since you'll be needing to complete several quests in order to get your trans, and you'll be needing ot either earn a couple mil in gold for ice spear and/or get strong enough (or get strong enough friends) to run some fairly hard dungeons... yeah.
Rank your thunder. Accept that your CP is going to go up, but so what. Thunder is a powerful and manaeefficient spell, and you already have it at novice. Ranking it will also improve your mp, one of your other goals. Ice spear won't do that for you.
I'll repeat: accept that your CP is going to raise, no matter what you do (well, almost). That is part of the process of getting stronger. With that in mind, accept also that oyu will want to get oyur hands on some gear that lowers your CP. It is pointless to try to remain weak to train skills that make you stronger, when being stronger will help you train your skills better. Check Zyrus' guide on how to get some -cp gear here on mabination in the guides section. the pieces that are -100 for light armor, and gloves are very easy to get. Rank your thunder a bit while hunting for those enchants, and you should have an easy time of it. Use your growing thunder skill to help you get through the quests for transformation skill. Use thunder to raft and get you explore levels more easily than most other methods, which translates to more AP for you. Basically use thunder to make everything in your mabi game easier to do.
Whoa. I had no idea that thunder could be so appealing. O_O
You pretty much threw all my plans out the window and now I'm gonna rank thunder. :)
On the issue of CP decreasing gear, I already have a difficult linen curras (mispelled T_T) and arc lich short sword. The short sword will be rendered pretty useless once I finish WM mastery so I'll try and get my hands on an abysmal enchant by fishing instead.
Deviating pretty far from the topic here but along with thunder, would any bolt spells help me out? My combat style is pretty defensive and I use WM effectively most of the time... I think having a decent ranked bolt spell might also help?
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-24 18:37
Lightning bolt would be a decent spell to use if your thunder doesn't manage to finish something off, and would be cheaper to cast than a full thunder for something with only a sliver of life left. Being the same element, it would benefit from lightning mastery if you chose to really work on magic.
Firebolt is another good choice. It doesn't have the same efficiency as lightning bolt for element and stuff, but the 100% knockback and pretty reasonable damage make it useful in different situations than lightning bolt.
Either one will be good, or both. They're both good sources of INT, which will help your thunder in terms of magical balance, and more damage from higher magic attack value (new g13 mechanic).
Do note though, that magic does cost a hefty amount of AP to get really serious with it. Thunder will still be a strong, if erratic spell if you just rank it and don't raise INT much. It certainly gets better the more you invest in it, but it will work fine on it's own too.
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newpants wrote on 2011-01-24 18:50
Rebirthing into the alchemist destiny will probably help a lot too. Extra 2 mp/sp per level as well as 2x training.
I've been doing mana crystallization as well mainly for am and transmutation. Using only rE thunder and rD mana crystallization. The success rates were poor, but I was able to get to r9 am and r8 transmutation (ran out of ap..) just fine utilizing trans and demi. Probably should be noted that mana crystallization rates increase with both am and transmutation aside from ranking the actual skill.
Getting meditation is fine and all, but at 220 you're not going to have much ap to play around with, so I'd just get the skill that's most ap efficient for mp. Even if you get trans, if you're going pally, you're not getting that much mp extra. You might have to make friends with a nice IS-user.
It's fine if you want to keep your cp low, for skill training purposes. However, it might be easier to work on those skills first instead before working on the alchemy skills.