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qaccy wrote on 2011-02-04 06:11
So I'm back again for now after another brief break, planning on finally getting a two-handed weapon for serious use. The two new ones look nice...the glory sword (GS), and the dragon fang (DF). When I compared upgrades though, it started to look like in comparison to the DF, the GS is just pointless. Only 86 max vs a whopping 130? The glory sword does have the crit going for it...but with the sheer difference in damage, does that even matter? A noncrit smash from the DF would probably end up being better than a crit with the GS. The only issue is the DF having wtf repair costs.
Also, right now DFs are worth about half as much as a GS on the housing board...why, if the DF just looks so much better? Am I missin' something?
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-02-04 06:20
I guess some people just like the critical rate on Glory Sword better. I am not much of a fan of two-hander swords though.
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Kenero wrote on 2011-02-04 06:26
Quote from qaccy;319756:
So I'm back again for now after another brief break, planning on finally getting a two-handed weapon for serious use. The two new ones look nice...the glory sword (GS), and the dragon fang (DF). When I compared upgrades though, it started to look like in comparison to the DF, the GS is just pointless. Only 86 max vs a whopping 130? The glory sword does have the crit going for it...but with the sheer difference in damage, does that even matter? A noncrit smash from the DF would probably end up being better than a crit with the GS. The only issue is the DF having wtf repair costs.
Also, right now DFs are worth about half as much as a GS on the housing board...why, if the DF just looks so much better? Am I missin' something?
Dragon Tooth has almost 0% crit on it when used, while Glory Sword can easily asail you over 90~100% critical hit. In higher difficulties, that crit rate will help you crit smash the enemy, much more so than the dragon tooth.
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qaccy wrote on 2011-02-04 06:48
Quote from Kenero;319776:
Dragon Tooth has almost 0% crit on it when used, while Glory Sword can easily asail you over 90~100% critical hit. In higher difficulties, that crit rate will help you crit smash the enemy, much more so than the dragon tooth.
This is true...but with other enchants/skills, you can get a decent critical rate even barehanded, to overcome the lower critical on the fang.
Now this is a serious question rather than a sarcastic one, but if you can get to 100%+ crit WITH the dragon fang equipped, would the extra crit on the glory sword matter all that much? Most enemies from what I recall are sitting below 50 prot even on HM, so it seems a bit excessive even with me being a big fan of those flashing numbers.
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Kenero wrote on 2011-02-04 07:02
Quote from qaccy;319791:
This is true...but with other enchants/skills, you can get a decent critical rate even barehanded, to overcome the lower critical on the fang.
Now this is a serious question rather than a sarcastic one, but if you can get to 100%+ crit WITH the dragon fang equipped, would the extra crit on the glory sword matter all that much? Most enemies from what I recall are sitting below 50 prot even on HM, so it seems a bit excessive even with me being a big fan of those flashing numbers.
Well the key isn't just having enough to crit, but getting the maximum chance of 30%. There are some hard level monsters, much less elite mobs, that boosts 30~40 protection for the common mob enemies (not including bosses). If the enemy has 30% protection, you need 90% critical rate for a full 30% chance to crit. If the enemy has 40 protection, you need 110% chance to crit for 30%. Let's go lower and say 20% protection, then you will need 70% critical rate to crit.
I've tried using a dragon fang, and it has amazing damage when it crits, however when it comes to higher difficulties, I end up noticing that my Glory Sword outperforms the Dragon Fang by a milestone, simply because it has a full 30% chance to land that critical smash or critical windmill. Even with my Ivy Heagear, who Saved the Goddess Title, and Wooden needle, I can't even get up close to 50% critical with the Dragon Fang simply because the weapon itself, after upgrades, is 0% crit.
xD
If the Dragon Fang could at least give 15~30% critical rate on the weapon itself, it would be shining compared to the Glory but for a weapon that has 0% crit, it's hard to manage on anything that has high protection.
I suppose if you fight something like Peaca Ghost, Dragon Fang might suit you better because no matter what, 60~70% protection is a lot to bypass, however I've heard that people were able to get pass 120~140% crit with the Glory Sword, which was once only possible with certain blunt type weaponry.
Of course, you can argue that you just need 30% critical rate to be able to have full chance to critical windmill with the Dragon Fang, but if you want windmill damage, you might as well use dual wielding swords, because the thing that makes two-handed swords shine compared to dual-wielding is the smash skill, and sadly, smash doesn't ignore protection to crit, so the Dragon Fang falls short of the Glory Sword.
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-02-04 07:47
The main use of two-handed weaponry for humans is smash. A maxed out dragon fang as you pointed out is 130 damage. While that seems impressive, I can get over 70 damage on broadswords with no enchants, and two broadswords is 140 damage, with 30% crit on the swords. I can then enchant them, and every single piece of gear I wear with +damage enchants. And as long as I don't go to crazy with the -crit drawbacks on those damage enchants, I can hit 30% crit rate for WM, and almost completely focus on boosting damage. Dragon fang's crit is so low that I need to ensure I get 30% crit from other sources, and enchants that boost damage while sacrificing crit rate may have to be avoided. Therefore WM with dragon fang seems kinda pointless.
Not that the glory sword would be any better for WM...
As for their intended use, smashing, dragon fang is only slightly better in damage than glory sword. You can boost the damage of a two-hander by around 50-67 damage with enchants on it alone, and the base damage of your str from skills and enchants on all your other gear can push the max damage of your weapon to over 400. 86-130 is only a difference of 44, or slightly over 10% more (give or take). A crit on the other hand is 150% of your max damage, and if crits occur 30% of the time, that turns out to be an increase of 45% to your average damage. Landing crits is therefore 4-5 times as important as boosting max damage. In order for your assesment that dragon fang's non-crit smashes to be worth more than glory sword's crit smashes to be true, it would need to be a difference in damage of about 160 (in other words the dragon fang would need to offer 250+ damage before adding enchants).
The glory sword is the better sword for the main purpose of two-handers.
The dragon fang is only really useful for the low-hp build. Enchants for a two-hander like demi-lich and crocodile let the player reduce their HP by a lot more than can easily be acquired for one-handers. Low-hp build also tends to make use of enchants like fearless and thief, both of which lower hp and boost crit as a side effect. So the low-hp character can have a high max damage from the sword, already tends to have enough crit for wm, and can lower their hp the way they want it. Further, having -140hp on that single sword makes it very easy to switch weapons and get out of the low-hp build (mostly) in cases where having more hp might be beneficial.
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Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-02-04 09:52
Glory Sword is worth it IMO. Just that I failed to get nice luck for artisan upgrade...have to wait for the cash shop item here...
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Aiyoku wrote on 2011-02-04 14:21
Well I'm a raw power kind of girl, but I got the glory sword mainly because I was able to dye it a nice red and black. A day later though, fully upgraded, I realized that I actually love this sword. I got a sweet artisan upgrade (56 luck and 28 strength or something along those lines) and S upgraded it. My gear gets my crit high enough alone, and with the sword I'm completely devastating whatever it touches.~
The only thing I'd ever give it up for is a Highlander Claymore... xD
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ugonna100 wrote on 2011-02-04 16:44
Im still wondering about the repair costs on that thing. i have one but i havent used it for more than a few minutes (tried it out in shadow missions and loved the crit) so no dura has been lost, at a total of 50k Default shop price im thinking the repair is huge. I had a claymore to main with some upgrades + Special upgrade and artisan but the repair costs got to me. 26k for 3/16 ._. it didnt seem worth it.
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-02-04 17:23
My dragon fang (for low-hp build alt I'm stuck playing til my main is unlocked) costs 10k/point to repair at granat. I don't recall what it's shop price is off the top of my head. The glory sword's wiki page appears to be blank right now.
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Kenero wrote on 2011-02-04 19:11
3,500 per point for Glory at 95% rate.
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-02-04 19:24
I'm thinking with its ridiculous repair cost, the dragon fang isn't even a good choice for a low-hp build character. The point of the build is to have low maintenance costs while pushing out respectable melee damage. I don't think this sword outperforms a claymore by enough to warrent the insane repair fees.
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Claudia wrote on 2011-02-04 20:01
Well, I like my Glory Sword because of its crit rate.
But, since i'm a Giant, I dual-wield Iron Maces, one I will ego once I can afford to maintain it. So there isn't really anything that I would use over that.
I personally think it'd be a good choice, but as a human I always preferred dual-wielding daggers upgraded for crit.
I suppose it comes down to damage vs. crit and taking each monster situation into account, in the end.
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User495 wrote on 2011-02-04 21:41
sense the Wiki is down
what's the min/max stat boosts from a Glory Sword's Artisan Upgrade?
I saw str on the wiki last time I checked as something like 2-8 so something didn't seem right about that
I got:
14Str
58 Luck
Max Hp 5
-12 Dex
(is that -Dex normal?-)
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Claudia wrote on 2011-02-04 21:45
The wiki isn't down, i'm on it right now...o_o.
And yes, the -DEX is normal.