thunder or ice spear

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skeboe11 wrote on 2011-02-06 05:52

1st off money is not an issue
2nd im an elf
3rd my main skills are wc rk, and i use alot of golem, rk 5am rk golem

which skill is better for my character?
Shanghai wrote on 2011-02-06 05:54

Both have their uses, why not get both? If you're looking for a first, I guess Ice Spear would be a better start due to decreased mana consumption and spammability.
EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-02-06 06:00

Thunder is very good for rafting. Not to mention, it adds a lot of mana as well. With the masteries and right equipments, they cost almost the same mana. (Around 12 mana or so)
gentrone wrote on 2011-02-06 06:19

I don't know, the real question is what kind of dungeons you like to run or what do you expect from an Inter Magic. Raw power, aggro control, flexibility, low mana cost, short casting time, combos with other skills, etc.?
Crimmy wrote on 2011-02-06 06:22

At this point, TH is the most useful due to monsters in G13 TM's being ice elemental.
Ryoko wrote on 2011-02-06 06:29

Thunder, mainly because Thunder basically is more useful in multi aggro situations in which ice spear won'tdo you any good. If you level by TMs, then certainly,Thunder is better.

Ice Spear would be useful in situations where you'd need lots of Dmg/Sec such as IS+Blaze tactic.
Cythereaa wrote on 2011-02-06 06:56

Thunder rank 1. Then IS rank 1 :)

I have both, and I never use IS. As mentioned earlier, thunder adds a lot of MP, but more importantly it adds a lot of will too.
rinaek wrote on 2011-02-06 06:57

Unfortunately, IS + Blaze has been nerfed to the ground. Blaze is extremely weak with elemental wands now, using IS + Blaze is less efficient than 2+Blaze with a combat wand.

Ice Spear is still quite viable for rafting, although it's more difficult to use and somewhat less reliable than thunder because of its shorter range.

I would say that Ice Spear is actually better in multi-aggro situations, fast charge time, linear AoE, and freezing allows you to keep multiple monsters from getting to you, even if they're coming at you from different directions. Of course, Thunder has a longer range, which means you can more easily avoid getting multi-aggro'd by staying in a corner.

Also would like to mention that Ice Spear has much better AoE than Thunder and is better at clearing out large numbers of lower-hp monsters, while Thunder does more damage to fewer targets.

I've also gotten R1 for both skills, and I'll admit I use thunder more, but it's usually for rafting. Ice Spear does nice damage, but relies seems more heavily on crits than Thunder does in order to do 400+ damage on single charges. Without it, it only hits for about 250.

Basically, if you don't have high ranked critical hit, I'd recommend Thunder. If you do, it's up to you.
skeboe11 wrote on 2011-02-06 15:33

That sounds great ill get thunder 1st but whats up with this rafting?
I mean whats so good about it other than exp levels?
Knightmehre wrote on 2011-02-06 15:35

IS can be coupled with blaze, which is a deadly combo.

But thunder is also useful
skeboe11 wrote on 2011-02-06 15:59

Some1 said both will cast about the same amount of mana

Can some1 show me how much each will cost with g13 out
Justified wrote on 2011-02-06 16:08

Quote from Ryoko;322681:
Thunder, mainly because Thunder basically is more useful in multi aggro situations in which ice spear won'tdo you any good. If you level by TMs, then certainly,Thunder is better.

Ice Spear would be useful in situations where you'd need lots of Dmg/Sec such as IS+Blaze tactic.

Again, I question how mages have been using Ice Spear.
This is the exact opposite. Thunder is not good at handling multi-aggro because you need to get everything into a neat bunch or else waste a ton of mana firing at two groups, assuming the groups don't seperate once they knock back.
Ice Spear on the other hand, loads quick enough, stalls long enough, and disperses neatly enough to make it so you completely dominate where your foes land. And you don't get pummeled by mobs with MR2 because of constant knockback (like Firebolt).

Though at this point, I see both as greatly inferior to Fireball for anything besides rafting. It's the strongest, faster than TH, massive AoE radius, you can avoid aggro with play dead, and it even gains a high damage boost in Theater Missions. And it's the cheapest AP cost to boot.

I have all three ranked, and neither TH nor IS comes close to FB in versatility and usefulness (outside of rafting).
Kaeporo wrote on 2011-02-06 16:35

Quote from Justified;322920:
Again, I question how mages have been using Ice Spear.
This is the exact opposite. Thunder is not good at handling multi-aggro because you need to get everything into a neat bunch or else waste a ton of mana firing at two groups, assuming the groups don't seperate once they knock back.
Ice Spear on the other hand, loads quick enough, stalls long enough, and disperses neatly enough to make it so you completely dominate where your foes land. And you don't get pummeled by mobs with MR2 because of constant knockback (like Firebolt).

Though at this point, I see both as greatly inferior to Fireball for anything besides rafting. It's the strongest, faster than TH, massive AoE radius, you can avoid aggro with play dead, and it even gains a high damage boost in Theater Missions. And it's the cheapest AP cost to boot.

I have all three ranked, and neither TH nor IS comes close to FB in versatility and usefulness (outside of rafting).

Thunder gives insane mana and willpower and it's the best spell for killing hobgoblins while rafting. Max it first.
Justified wrote on 2011-02-06 17:03

Quote from Kaeporo;322927:
Thunder gives insane mana and willpower and it's the best spell for killing hobgoblins while rafting. Max it first.

The usefulness of MP and Will are debateable.
Intermediate Magic ignores Prot for crits and therefore doesn't need it.
Max MP is a luxury in dungeons/missions, unless you plan on Mana Shield tanking.

If the question is combat usefulness in moderate to high end tasks, then I'd say fireball. If you wan't to consider stat boosts and rafting (which are also important), then it's a toss up. Though I weight actual killing power as the most important, hence why I don't particularly like thunder. Bolt Fusion does a pretty good job at rafting.