Keepsakes or not? Combination set questions (Mainly Hebona and Patron)

• Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-02-06 21:24
  I need some help deciding whether I should keep or get rid of the sets. Event is over now and prices should start to rise again.
  
  One thing for sure is that I will be keeping Hebona robe no matter what, and at least one Patron set if the effect does work.
  
  I managed to assemble a fire Hebona effect set (supposingly adds 15% to firebolt damage). I'm having trouble deciding whether I should keep it for the lolz or sell it as soon as possible, especially since I'm not a magic user and the other person who could use it has the opinion that the set isn't too practical to begin with.
  
  As for Patron set, I managed to assemble two sets for this, but I did spend a few million for the more difficult to obtain pieces. Mainly because I felt that nobody is going to be as mad as to run Rundal Siren or Advanced Hard Mode on a constant basis. I also felt that I needed one set because I'm training blacksmithing. The extra set is originally intended as a spare set and for someone who unfortunately does not need/appreciate it. I am also considering that the price of this set will surge. Considering if I should hold on to the set for a little longer or sell it off as soon as possible.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-02-06 21:26
  Well, the Patron set price might rise even more later on when more people rank Blacksmithing or something. If you are that desperate for money, sell the Hebona set, I suppose.
• Wing wrote on 2011-02-06 21:27
  I think you should keep them.
• gentrone wrote on 2011-02-06 21:29
  Hebona set is useless, although I know Justified and maybe Vejosa will disagree with me here. I don't find bolts and bolt composer useful in hard missions.
  
  And you are no mage, therefore sell it. I doesn't even add good def/prot to begin with.
  
  And you're training Blacksmith, right? Patron would be helpful, so keep it.
• Okitaru wrote on 2011-02-06 22:00

  Quote from EndlessDreams;323207:

  Well, the Patron set price might rise even more later on when more people rank Blacksmithing or something. If you are that desperate for money, sell the Hebona set, I suppose.

  
  
  We probably won't get a rise in it, we have a lot of people who work on it but never hit the numbers and it's been a year or more...
• Justified wrote on 2011-02-06 22:46
  The set is useless if you're not willing to risk enchanting it, just like you can't just slap on a clean Dustin Armor and Beholder Shield and call yourself a tank.
  
  The Hebona bonus is very nice, but it needs the crit enchants to pull it off. I'm sure everybody would agree that this does enough damage to be useable in hardmode though.
  

  [Image: http://i56.tinypic.com/33deg7k.jpg]
• gentrone wrote on 2011-02-07 00:48

  Quote from Justified;323302:

  The set is useless if you're not willing to risk enchanting it, just like you can't just slap on a clean Dustin Armor and Beholder Shield and call yourself a tank.
  
  The Hebona bonus is very nice, but it needs the crit enchants to pull it off. I'm sure everybody would agree that this does enough damage to be useable in hardmode though.
  

  [Image: http://i56.tinypic.com/33deg7k.jpg]

  
  
  But that is one target only and damage decreases as you lose charges. 7500 crit is just 3k damage, maybe less if you're using red upgrade stones, and def eats like 500 damage. Of course it is useful but not stronger than Inter magic and you have to give up def and prot in order to use that set.
• Justified wrote on 2011-02-07 03:04

  Quote from gentrone;323520:

  But that is one target only and damage decreases as you lose charges. 7500 crit is just 3k damage, maybe less if you're using red upgrade stones, and def eats like 500 damage. Of course it is useful but not stronger than Inter magic and you have to give up def and prot in order to use that set.

  
  
  Typical mages don't gear for def and prot. That would be a different playstyle.
  
  Fire-Lightning would deal more than 7500 (Lightning is stronger than Ice), and would hit 5 targets, which nullifies your 'single-target' argument. Thunder would need more than 5 targets to match that damage. And because of the crit rate, it'd probably still do less. Fireball, maybe.
  The 7500 shown above is only the first hit. If you count the other 4 hits, it'll add up to 20,400 damage if they all crit. Thunder would need at least 3 targets with equal amount of crits to match. Only Blaze is capable of dealing that kind of focused damage, and this is much less setup required. Also Blaze fails on AHS.
  
  Other things to consider...
  Can move with it loaded, so you're not a sitting duck.
  Uses about half the MP of a fully loaded intermediate magic.
  Casts in 2/3 the time of a speedcasted Fireball/Thunder, without damage loss (half the time of a speedcast FB/TH if you use PFW, but less damage). Equivalent to Ice Spear speed (or even faster with PFW).
  Is safe to use on any MR mob, because it always knocks back.
  
  And you can still use intermediate magic if the situation calls for it.
  
  
  I will admit though, without elemental bonus and S-upgrades, it does come out a bit less. But then again I haven't finished ranking my Masteries yet, so it's still possible of even higher damage. I don't see why it wouldn't be a useful alternative to intermediate magic when you're not aiming at a huge mob of 10+ targets.
• gentrone wrote on 2011-02-07 04:08
  I guess I'm not an typical mage then but I have to agree with some things you have said. However, the example above is Ice-Fire (not Ice-Lightning), so it's not an AoE fusion. You have to pick targets one by one and damage decreases as you lose charges.
  
  Let's just say we are using Fire-Lightning with the damage you just used as an example. I don't know if you took this into account, but the max number of targets decreases as you lose a charge with this type of fusion. So that would be a total of 5+4+3+2+1 (15) total hits. Anyways, you said damage would add up to 20400 if all charges crit, but let's be realistic and just say they crit 30% of the time. According to this number your average is either a) 544 (15 hits) or b) 1612 (5 targets). Anyhow, the total damage is 8160 non crit. If we assume damage crits 30% of the time then, 6120 (8160*0.3*2.5) crit damage and 5712 (8160*0.7) for a total damage of 11832.
  
  I think you're not comparing Thunder fairly.
  
  

  Thunder would need more than 5 targets to match that damage. And because of the crit rate, it'd probably still do less.

  
  

  Thunder would need at least 3 targets with equal amount of crits to match.

  
  
  Since we're doing fusion calculations for 5 targets, then it would be fair if we did the same for Thunder.
  
  Assuming Thunder hits 400 (I don't know your exact Int but I'm sure it's high) on 5 targets, with 3 charges the total damage would be 400*3*5 6000 (almost as much as your Ice-Lightning example, only that no Int factor and just 3 charges!), so if we assume Thunder would crit 30% of the time then, 4500 (6000*0.3*2.5) + 4200 (6000*07) which totals 10200, assuming you have at least 400 Int, damage would be increased by 20%... so that's 12240 damage right there.
  
  A 3 charge Thunder would take 10.5 seconds to load; a 5 charge Ice-Lightning would take 15 seconds (correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not sure if bolts load simultaneously or if both charging speeds are added, 1.5 seconds for each bolt). So on average each fused bolt is 0.5 seconds faster than Thunder... that's a 2.5 seconds difference for a FULL charge, which would totally destroy bolts in terms of damage.
  
  I could run the same calculations if all charges crit but the outcome would be the same since I would have to do the same for both Thunder and Bolt Fusion, and upgrade stones, Int, etc. would have no impact on the resulting number because they are constants and they compound so they can be canceled out. Raw numbers are more important.
  
  However, I would have to agree that things to consider are 1) Casting Speed, 2) Mana efficiency*, 3) Possibility of walking with bolts charged (but they would vanish after 15 seconds if you don't mod), so it would be really stupid to say they wouldn't help to some extent. Casting Speed is a plus but I still think Thunder would be superior in terms of dps. Again, it's situational because there are situations where Fused Bolts would suit better but generally speaking Inter Magic is more efficient and more reliable, particularly against hard mobs. And the max number of targets for Bolt Fusion is 5, while Thunder's is 16 I believe.
  
  *I don't really care about this. I don't even wear a reduction set because I prefer a heavy armor with pd's and high def and prot (enchants+upgrades). 10% mana cost reduction is not that much.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-02-07 05:07
  Justified just out of curiousity is your Hebona set full ice-fire effects or just one of them?
• Cookies wrote on 2011-02-07 05:24
  His set has both ice and fire effects.
  
  You could always use the fire set to ohko the titled ice wyverns at ballooning, just keep it imo.