Paladin Vs Dark Knight, which to choose.

• Meikeru wrote on 2011-02-12 04:55
  Yeah, I feel the same. Shoo, the only thing I actually like about humans are their trans formations. Not so crazy on the infras though.
• demonlord96 wrote on 2011-02-12 04:59
  It still looks cool, but the first and third transformations are the coolest looking for the DK in my opinion.
• Chromatic wrote on 2011-02-12 05:52

  Quote from demonlord96;331737:

  I think you might have missed the meaning of what I was actually saying there. I meant by the looks of the stats and bonuses and whatnot, not the actual looks of the transformation design.
  Actually, up until Infra Black I think that Dark Knight looks better. I don't really like the way Infra Black looks though compared to the last tier pally transformation. What can I say, I love wings.
  Like I said though, Its the stats and stuff that were the big things that convinced me. I play mostly melee anyways, so it fits. I never really got into magic that much either, so the int bonus would be mostly lost on me anyways...
  
  @Meikeru I actually do have an Elf that I'm trying to get into a pure Archer or Archer/Magic build. Elf Archery is totally boss.

  
  
  i didn't, just wanted to point out because there's people that change to DK because they want to be CKs even though they're pure melee. That's why I've bolded just that sentence and not the whole thing
• demonlord96 wrote on 2011-02-12 05:56
  Ah, I can see where you're coming from now. Yeah, not exactly the best idea is it? Then again, when you think about it the CK does look a lot like it should be a melee centered transformation. I mean come on, who wastes all that armor on a Archer or Mage? Its just impractical...
  That aside, looking into the future the Paladin just looks better anyways, and since I prefer melee anyways it all works out in the end.
  I'm a sucker for wings... I really am...
• Taycat wrote on 2011-02-12 08:53
  Let's see what I think....
  
  Paladin: Good for a guaranteed STR boost.
  Dark Knight: Well, you know you always have that chance at a great INT boost....
  
  To be honest, DK has chances of being good....but most times it just doesn't want to cooperate.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-02-12 09:33

  Quote from Chromatic;331830:

  i didn't, just wanted to point out because there's people that change to DK because they want to be CKs even though they're pure melee. That's why I've bolded just that sentence and not the whole thing

  
  
  Wait, you weren't being sarcastic?
  
  The differences between the two transformations aren't big enough to consider a character ruined. If you're melee and go DK, even with a low STR roll you're still doing more damage than if you were not transformed. And since you're getting a low STR roll that means INT is at least medium roll, possibly high roll. Along with INT comes a crit boost, which is valuable.
  
  DK also gives a ton of HP and MP (mana shield) that makes you able to survive more punishment than not being transformed. This can be valuable to any melee player when situations get out of control.
  
  You can also use HP pots to remain transformed for ridiculously long periods of time. A paladin might be slightly stronger for ~5 mins than the DK, but the DK can be stronger than the untransformed human for the whole day, several missions in a row.
  
  Melee players that regret going DK are fools.
  
  As for the mage side of things, where the advice typically points to go DK:
  
  Paladins still get a boost to MP, even if it isn't as big as DK's. Paladins still add to your survivability in bad situations, and even offer more defense/protection. An end-game mage is going to be very tanky with mana shield, heavy armor, and a shield anyway, and paladin adds onto that in a very helpful way. Further, paladin's passive defenses, particularly paladin heavy stander, are stronger than DK's and activate quite often once all three are rk1.
  
  Using things like persona, stagelight boost, and lots of INT-boosting skills, it is possible to hit 999 INT outside of transformation. In that case it doesn't matter what roll DK gets for INT, the paladin will have equal offense.
  
  In short, both trans are good for all character types. It really is more about style/looks than anything else. The mechanical nuances are small and trivial at best, with the onyl real exception being the option to go infinite knight via DK (which, if you can make good use of it, is far more important than a few points of damage her or there).
• truefire wrote on 2011-02-12 10:07

  Quote from kNocturn;331975:

  Let's see what I think....
  
  Paladin: Good for a guaranteed STR boost.
  Dark Knight: Well, you know you always have that chance at a great INT boost....
  
  To be honest, DK has chances of being good....but most times it just doesn't want to cooperate.

  
  
  The thing is, DK trans is the only one with an int roll, so regardless of whether it's a mediocre or great roll, it's superior magically for mages. Of course, the catch is this is a short-term and mid-term advantage, as 999 int is apparently attainable non-trans for all 3 races in the very long-term, which leaves crit and potentially indefinite trans as the primary advantages for DKs (in the long, LONG term though, a paladin could just rebirth enough times that their trans lasts a full 36 minutes). So, really, long-term the DK gets a decent crit boost that is only optimized during an int roll.
  
  For melee and ranged, the gap between Paladin at any time and DK during a specific roll is closed somewhat because of Sword of Order, which boosts the damage both of melee and ranged, though not nearly as much as would Power for melee or Eye for ranged.
• Joker wrote on 2011-02-12 10:34

  Quote from truefire;331995:

  The thing is, DK trans is the only one with an int roll, so regardless of whether it's a mediocre or great roll, it's superior magically for mages. Of course, the catch is this is a short-term and mid-term advantage, as 999 int is apparently attainable non-trans for all 3 races in the very long-term, which leaves crit and potentially indefinite trans as the primary advantages for DKs (in the long, LONG term though, a paladin could just rebirth enough times that their trans lasts a full 36 minutes). So, really, long-term the DK gets a decent crit boost that is only optimized during an int roll.
  
  For melee and ranged, the gap between Paladin at any time and DK during a specific roll is closed somewhat because of Sword of Order, which boosts the damage both of melee and ranged, though not nearly as much as would Power for melee or Eye for ranged.

  
  
  based on rough estimates of time gained per rb youde prob have to rb ... around 1000 times for it to last like 33 mins
  lol..
  
  1000 (rebirths) x 2 (amount of seconds per rebirth) = 2000 seconds / 60 (for minute calculate) = 33.333 repeated
  basically yeah... you need 1000 rebirths... the highest korean player MAY have like what? 300 rebirths? maybe?
• truefire wrote on 2011-02-12 10:43
  The actual amount of gained seconds per rebirth is 7. The amount of lost seconds per age is 2. So, yeah. Around 300-ish rbs a Korean pally probably would have day-long trans. Like I said, LONG-long term. At the end of the day, hooking a potion IV into my arm just doesn't sound nearly as delightful.
• demonlord96 wrote on 2011-02-12 15:06
  Even though a DK can stay in its transformation all day, the problem that I'm seeing is getting enough Potions to keep that going. I normally like to keep my potions for situations where I accidentally screw up and get owned. Actually, I don't even normally have a good supply of them either...
• Kaeporo wrote on 2011-02-12 15:41
  You gain 7 seconds for the first 9 rebirths. The tenth rebirth gives 10 seconds. Every subsequent rebirth gives 2 seconds up to a maximum of four in-game hours or six minutes in real life.
• Username wrote on 2011-02-12 15:49
  If your a watercannon and heatbuster user; I would Recommend DK for the Crit rolls, as unless your sacreficing Cressida or the RA outfit for some crit armor, then DK is the better choice.
• MSZShadow wrote on 2011-02-12 15:58
  Like everyone's stated, stay Pally until you either convince yourself somehow that DK is much better, or until you get Magic. But honestly, if you're getting Magic enough to use it frequently, you should probably be an Elf.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-02-13 10:51

  Quote from MSZShadow;332195:

  Like everyone's stated, stay Pally until you either convince yourself somehow that DK is much better, or until you get Magic. But honestly, if you're getting Magic enough to use it frequently, you should probably be an Elf.

  
  
  The main point of my post is that you can be a melee dark knight, and not suck at it. You can be a mage paladin, and not suck at it. Both transforms offer at least -something- to all play styles. You can't "ruin" your character. The differences between the ideal trans and the other trans are very minor. I would go further to say that at low levels where trans is far more significant compared to your non-transformed stats, how you rank your trans skills plays a far, far greater importance than which trans you are using. For a melee/ranger paladin, ranking either power, eye, or sword of order is far more useful than ranking spirit of order. If you're a mage paladin, ranking spirit of order is more helpful. For dark knight, ranking the appropriate stat would help your build more than soul of chaos, unless you are seeking to maximize MP over INT as a mage. Yet everyone seems to rank spirit of order or soul of chaos first, regardless of build.
• Xemnas wrote on 2011-02-13 11:09

  Quote from Cryosite;334059:

  Yet everyone seems to rank spirit of order or soul of chaos first, regardless of build.

  
  
  I ranked Body of Chaos first and I'm pure melee.(then I ranked mind of chaos to 9 for crit)