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Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-02-16 03:05
Fireball.
Also, if you lag crazy, Blaze is going to hurt you more.
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Soulroc wrote on 2011-02-16 05:36
Fireball. Whenever I feel like I'll be getting hit trying to charge Fireball, all I really do is Demi+Eclipse to completely nullify any interruption. Fireball at r1 gives +8 str and Blaze gives +7 I think. Eversince obtaining Fire Master I've been able to oneshot mobs with up to 4k+ hp with 35% Prot. That was impossible pre-g13.
Also, a -24% MP Fire Wand + R1 Fire Mastery and a Mana Reduct set reduces your MP usage to around 60mp per 5charge Fireball. Wonderful no?
Quote from Ryoko;337427:
Magic got nerfed down completely.
Mastery+title restores elemental magic to its original state while Int further boosts its damage. The only actual magic skill that was nerfed horribly was Blaze, seeing as using any wand other than a Combat Wand halves its dmg and its original damage being stooped to 75% of its original.
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Yoorah wrote on 2011-02-16 05:43
If you want to run as a team, get Blaze. Fireball takes too long to charge. By the time you charge your Fireball, your party will have already killed everything. >_> Blaze has an easy and quick damage output, and you can get other party members to help with the knockback damage setups.
And Blaze didn't get nerfed. More like fixed. At 75%, it still deals very good damage. Before, it was just hax. lulz
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Justified wrote on 2011-02-16 05:47
Quote from Yoorah;337685:
If you want to run as a team, get Blaze. Fireball takes too long to charge. By the time you charge your Fireball, your party will have already killed everything. >_> Blaze has an easy and quick damage output, and you can get other party members to help with the knockback damage setups.
And Blaze didn't get nerfed. More like fixed. At 75%, it still deals very good damage. Before, it was just hax. lulz
Have fun with that. It's near impossible with randoms, and still annoying with friends/guild members. It's possible if you have some close people you can synergize with, but otherwise relying on help for Blaze is pretty much like fighting blindfolded.
Unless you're in a dungeon with extremely strong mobs which are often spammed against the wall.
For whatever reason, most people don't like playing support even if it means dealing 10x as much damage.
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psyal wrote on 2011-02-16 05:59
Fireball would probably be easier to use, as you won't have to worry about getting the knockdown meter high for each instance.
Plus, who doesn't like a 1000 radius nuke in the arsenal that can clear many types of mob masses?
Just my opinion though, as Blaze is still cool and has its perks.
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Pierce wrote on 2011-02-16 07:16
Hmm.
Have you considered the fact that Combat Wands are really good one hand melee weapons?
190 upgrade path: 5-45 damage, 30 Critical, 60% balance. OR
182 upgrade path: 5-29 damage, 46 Critical, 60% balance.
Slap Stiff or Lizard (and any weapon suffix you want) on it and you got 56% critical from just one weapon. Since you're melee, this would obviously be helpful in many situations.
1) Your Str must be high... so let's assume your max damage is 200. With Smash (500%)+Leap Attack (200%)+Blaze (150%~200%) you'd be dealing 900% melee damage (think of the crits with this wand) plus AoE magic damage plus knockback bonus damage on your target, AND the ability to melee crit.
With 200 damage, that's roughly 1.5k damage (def, prot, etc)+ high magic damage on a single target.
Blaze uses way less MP than Fireball, and actually is a hybrid skill (melee+magic), and you'd need high Int for both spells... approximately 540 to match pre-g13 damage or have consistent Blaze damage.
Let me tell you that Fireball without proper Int isn't that good outside TM's, particularly without the proper gear (S type wand) and enchants (+Int). However, yes, I agree in that Fireball's huge AoE is helpful but it can get you killed if you can't OHKO, so that's something you should think about because you it's not like you can immediately throw another Fireball unlike Thunder.
So maybe Thunder would be a better option? Hmmm.
All in all I think Blaze would serve you better, and if you really want an Adv Magic, you should rank Thunder afterwards.
Btw, Rank 7-6 Fireball is enough for HM TM's, and that saved AP could go to Blaze, and you can continue ranking it afterwards. It's a great and versatile skill, although you may want to rank every Magic Skill to rank 1 :lol:
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-02-16 14:53
Assault Slash lets you blaze with a fairly high amount of charge time and a full knockdown gauge. Blaze's damage was nerfed because of that.
As Pierce pointed out, a combat wand can be upgraded to some very high crit, and it is a very slow weapon so gives very good stun. You can pair it with a melee damage/crit set and a shield enchanted to boost damage for a high base damage and can push out impressive smash and melee damage with it despite the weak damage of the wand itself.
Overall the setup allows for good defense (due to shield), high damage output, and a ton of mobility (both charge and assault slash to help you move around a lot), position enemeies (smash, wm, and blaze) as well as two skills that offer invulnerability frames (wm and blaze). There tons of comboes available for the setup as well, making it one of the least boring styles of fighting in the game.
Either way, both spells have their advantages. Both are going to need a fairly high commitment of INT to be at their best, but I think Blaze more closely fits with your existing build based mostly on melee. Fireball would be more of a stand-alone type skill that you use in certain situations where your melee is for some reason less desirable.
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Valkyrie wrote on 2011-02-16 17:03
@Pierce
You're stance just completely changed my mind from FB to Blaze. Ty, this information was useful.
@Cryosite
I like what you're saying: I didn't know blaze was that much more versatile.
@Justified
We run peaca ints; that means every person in my guild knows what their role is, as opposed to randomly hitting stuff or "winging" the run. There's already 2 rank 1 Fireballers (that I know of), but none with rank 1 blaze (to my knowledge).
Thank you for your opinions, I have decided to go with Blaze, just because it's versatile and, as someone pointed out, better for my build (Specifically Smash -> AS -> Blaze was an amazing addition I did not think about).
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Justified wrote on 2011-02-16 18:05
I haven't really figured out how to AS>Blaze, but that could just be a lack of trying. Or lag, which I get a lot of nowadays.
As much as I love Fireball, I'd still agree to get Blaze first for the already explained reasons. However, I do think it is largely overrated, especially by people who do not use the skill often. Unless you're explicitly using it against wall-pinned mobs, you will get headaches from people who can't do proper setups, regardless of how "pro" they are or how well they know their role.
Damage-wise, I think Fireball actually beats Blaze now, even on full knockback mobs, but I'm not sure. However since some mobs (like Ghasts) have no knockback counter, it is rendered extremely weak in some situations where Fireball excels. Generally, Ghasts are the bigger headache, and a triple Fireball could make quick work of those spawns - if your group can lure properly to allow it.
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Shirayuki wrote on 2011-02-16 20:06
Quote from Drawinq;337343:
Well he said he's MELEE and wants STR so imo Blaze would be better option.
Isn't Blaze 4 STR and FB 8 STR?
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Valkyrie wrote on 2011-02-16 21:20
Quote from Justified;338000:
I haven't really figured out how to AS>Blaze, but that could just be a lack of trying. Or lag, which I get a lot of nowadays.
As much as I love Fireball, I'd still agree to get Blaze first for the already explained reasons. However, I do think it is largely overrated, especially by people who do not use the skill often. Unless you're explicitly using it against wall-pinned mobs, you will get headaches from people who can't do proper setups, regardless of how "pro" they are or how well they know their role.
Damage-wise, I think Fireball actually beats Blaze now, even on full knockback mobs, but I'm not sure. However since some mobs (like Ghasts) have no knockback counter, it is rendered extremely weak in some situations where Fireball excels. Generally, Ghasts are the bigger headache, and a triple Fireball could make quick work of those spawns - if your group can lure properly to allow it.
Yeah I guess you are right there. And it's true: Fire ball does deal more damage. Ghasts are a joke if you have good archers, just spam mag around a campfire and crit them to hell.
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TropicalCat wrote on 2011-02-16 21:23
Quote from Valkyrie;337328:
So thanks to this double rainbow event, I'm able to either rank Fireball from D to 1, or Blaze from B to 1.
I tried looking for videos + research, and I simply cannot decide which one would be more helpful. I usually solo things (melee), but I want something that can be used for higher damage in team runs (besides the fact that both give str too).
So now is up to you to convey your opinion and try to sway me to either one of the skills (please? lol)
i'd say blaze, but if you gonna spam hardmode/elite missions then FB
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wolfram wrote on 2011-02-16 22:25
Just personal opinion, I use Fireball a lot more then blaze. Not just for the damage, but the AoE.
Blaze is more about 1 on 1 fights.
I use to Blaze everything as it is MP efficient, but constantly using it shows that you need the hit before knockback for it to even match FB.
Against 4+ mobs, FB is more cost efficient.
Most things we fight don't last more then 2 Fireballs.
I usually always open Fireball first and just do clean up work on anything that doesn't die.
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Retard wrote on 2011-02-17 06:17
Did you read Zyrus's guided yet? I assure you blaze wouldn't be able to do that >.>, Sure Blaze has more DPS but FB has more of a chance to do more damage in one go. Also, blaze is really useless without its full multiplier :l which is almost near impossible on todays mobs.
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-02-17 08:27
Quote from Justified;338000:
I haven't really figured out how to AS>Blaze, but that could just be a lack of trying. Or lag, which I get a lot of nowadays.
I can't help with lag, but how I do it is to watch the knockdown guage. I smash>AS, then start charging blaze. The moment the gauge starts to empty that tells me the thing is about to get up and can be hit. so I release at that point. basically a 99% full gauge. With some practice I could probably hit full gauge.
Quote from Justified;338000:
As much as I love Fireball, I'd still agree to get Blaze first for the already explained reasons. However, I do think it is largely overrated, especially by people who do not use the skill often. Unless you're explicitly using it against wall-pinned mobs, you will get headaches from people who can't do proper setups, regardless of how "pro" they are or how well they know their role.
You can get some blazes off of randoms. You may not be able to charge as fully as a well coordinated party, but it is easy to get full knockdown meters. Watch what your teammates are doing. Magnum and flame burst are really easy to spot if you are looking for them, and you can typically figure out what their target is going to be. If you notice someone tends to open with smash a lot, you can also figure out their target and set up accordingly as well. Even windmillers you can predict.
I will frequently release a very quick blaze off of some of the above types of attacks. basically adding a nice chunk of damage for almost 0 mp. If Someone is readying a magnum or flame burst, I can easily get into position and get at least a medium charge going. This is all assuming mindless noob randoms.
With people who are willing to work together, it takes very little coordination for them to hold a magnum or flame burst and/or adjust their position if the mob moves. Most players I party with are very happy to knock their target on top of me if I have a full blaze charge. They get to land a crit magnum and do impressive damage, then see a crit blaze for impressive damage. Everyone is happy, and the fomor is very dead.
Quote from Purrz24;338876:
Did you read Zyrus's guided yet? I assure you blaze wouldn't be able to do that >.>, Sure Blaze has more DPS but FB has more of a chance to do more damage in one go. Also, blaze is really useless without its full multiplier :l which is almost near impossible on todays mobs.
I use blaze. It is nowhere near impossible.