Spear v.s Sword Lanns: A Compairsion

• jakjak4161 wrote on 2011-03-02 14:31
  Since this seems to be a big deal...
  
  [size=18]
  Pros for Sword Lann:[/size]
  -Double crescent is very useful for breaking boss parts
  -More survivability, like I said, swords are more maneuverable, which makes them very adept at exploiting small openings of certain bosses.
  -Slip Dash has a very large invincibility frame on it once at higher ranks, learn to control this, and you control the world.
  -Much more adept at soloing dungeons than spear lanns (yea yea go cry, its true some spear lanns can solo just as well, but the amount of skill required to solo certain bosses on a spear lann is overkill. Sword lanns of equal skill level can do the solo much more effortlessly. See epic pwnzor below V
  

  [video=youtube;AzPCwwWvSKI]http://www.youtube.com/v/AzPCwwWvSKI[/video]

  
  
  -Fun, your always on your toes trying to time those slip dashes
  -swords are cheaper than spears (cost)
  
  [size=18]
  Cons for Sword Lanns:[/size]
  -Sad but true, swords does less damage than spears
  -swords don't crit nearly as much as spear users with infusion
  -Infusion gives crit % while berserk doesnt, but spearlanns can use both infusion and berserk *cry*
  -Hard to control, requires alot of practice to solo
  -swords are shorter and less aesthetically pleasing than spears
  -clears trash mobs much slower compared to spears (twin edge 450)
  -Its better to have a noob spear lann than a noob sword lann. in other words, when you suck, you suck. Below is an example of a red tyrant soloing a noob sword lann.
  

  
  [video=youtube;6NARGu-lcGg]http://www.youtube.com/v/6NARGu-lcGg[/video]

  
  
  
  
  NOW
  
  
  
  
  [size=18]Pros of Spear Lanns:[/size]
  -SPINSPINSPINSPIN Hurricane 3960 is insanely addicting, even a sword player as myself get caught up in the spinning sometimes
  -More aesthetically pleasing
  -Does more DPS and crits more
  -Clears trash mobs really fast (hurricane 3960)
  -Infusion is an amazing buff, and can be used infinitely at 1 hp
  -can stun lock certain bosses with their spinning (Giant spider, laghodessa)
  -Has super armor while spinning (you do not get KB or flinch)
  -the dodge (roll) is a smash attack which you can utilize to both crit->GF or to cancel hurricane3960
  -Fury Infusion is almost instant cast while maxed, and it refills your stamina bar, spear lanns have no stamina issues to worry about
  -More maneuverable, in-terms of positioning around the boss and attack variety and quantity, this quality is further enhanced by the unlimited stamina FI brings. (credits to xJac)
  [video=youtube;G0sM-OZawiQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0sM-OZawiQ&feature=player_embedded[/video]
  
  [size=18]Cons of Spear Lanns:[/size]
  -sometimes hated by party leaders for spinning too much and thus failing the BP missions
  -MUCH harder to be pro on spears than it is on swords (you try soloing Blood Lord with 1 hp on a sword lann)
  

  [video=youtube;wZHFopNFa1Y]http://www.youtube.com/v/wZHFopNFa1Y[/video]

  
  -cannot use slipdash, rolling costs 30 stamina, also no invincibility frames
  
  
  
  [size=18]Specific Cases Compairsion:[/size]
  [SIZE="4"]- Red Tyrant[/SIZE]
  Sword Lann
  [video=youtube;hsOVy_0faO8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsOVy_0faO8[/video]
  
  Spear Lann
  [video=youtube;sUPOMIbRAPI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUPOMIbRAPI[/video]
  
  For these two cases, you could tell the spear lann was level 44 but the spear lann was only level 30 something. You can clearly see the huge amounts of crit the spear lann was pulling off, while the lvl 44 sword lann was kind of running dry there for a while. Notice how the spear lann did not rely on spin2win, most of his attacks were sprint smash, roll smash, and LR with the occasional LLR thrown in there. This is exactly as xJac said:
  

  If you assume a player can play both swords and spears to their maximum potential, you will see the spears will be constantly on the move, while swords would have to occasionally back off due to bad positioning/low stamina.

  
  The sword lann did not get nearly as many hits in as the spear lann, who killed the boss in 4 mins. This is still a low level boss, however, and there are alot of silly openings for both the sword and spear lanns to exploit.
• JkTyrant wrote on 2011-03-02 15:41
  I agree with everything except, -swords don't crit nearly as much as spear users with infusion
  
  I noticed that I crit 2/3 of the times whenever i perform double crescent. I've been able to pull of 4 consecutive dc crit hits often.
  i.e. Slip Dash > DC > Gliding Fury > Lightning Fury > SD > DC > GF > FL > ...etc
  
  So...unless spear lanns crit in every hit...idk if your statement is true...but then again i haven't tried spear...so...meh.
  
  This also falls under -Clears trash mobs really fast
  
  with 1 gliding fury, i can wipe out 4~5 mobs in one go...clearing trash is a walk in the park, for me atleast...
• Nichibon wrote on 2011-03-02 16:44

  Quote from JkTyrant;356130:

  I agree with everything except, -swords don't crit nearly as much as spear users with infusion
  
  I noticed that I crit 2/3 of the times whenever i perform double crescent. I've been able to pull of 4 consecutive dc crit hits often.
  i.e. Slip Dash > DC > Gliding Fury > Lightning Fury > SD > DC > GF > FL > ...etc
  
  So...unless spear lanns crit in every hit...idk if your statement is true...but then again i haven't tried spear...so...meh.
  

  
  
  You crit that much on a raid boss that has crit resistance? My WIL and CRIT are both maxed @ level 46 and I don't crit that much on Spider with my swords. On trash, yes.
  
  Spears have a much higher crit rate for two reasons:
  
  1) Infusion gives them a 22% crit boost @ R9...this is huge.
  2) They get WAY more smash hits in. I believe the LR combo gives 6 hits? I could be mistaken...but it's WAY more than the two chances to crit that DC give. And that's not even mentioning Hurricane which you're guaranteed to crit on with so many hits.
• jakjak4161 wrote on 2011-03-02 17:46

  Quote from JkTyrant;356130:

  I agree with everything except, -swords don't crit nearly as much as spear users with infusion
  
  I noticed that I crit 2/3 of the times whenever i perform double crescent. I've been able to pull of 4 consecutive dc crit hits often.
  i.e. Slip Dash > DC > Gliding Fury > Lightning Fury > SD > DC > GF > FL > ...etc
  
  So...unless spear lanns crit in every hit...idk if your statement is true...but then again i haven't tried spear...so...meh.
  
  This also falls under -Clears trash mobs really fast
  
  with 1 gliding fury, i can wipe out 4~5 mobs in one go...clearing trash is a walk in the park, for me atleast...

  
  
  I played on a level 60 spear and sword lann, spears definitely crits more than swords when maxed all the essential skills. The point that you crit 2/3rd of your smashes is moot, because hurricane 3960 pull off numerous smashes in the time it takes for you to do 1 or 2. That is partially what I meant by critting more. Also, like the above poster said, infusion gives 22% crit bonus, that + maxed crit = more crit no matter how you spin it.
• JkTyrant wrote on 2011-03-02 18:32
  Ah thanks for clearing that up. I guess i'll give spear a chance after I hit lv 60. :whip:
• foreignreign wrote on 2011-03-02 20:26
  LR on spears is 3 hits. LLLR is 4-5 or so. Kinda hard to tell with LLLR.
• xJac wrote on 2011-03-03 02:46
  First of all, before going on critique....
  

  Quote from jakjak4161;356107:

  Below is an example of a red tyrant soloing a noob sword lann.
  

  
  [video=youtube;6NARGu-lcGg]http://www.youtube.com/v/6NARGu-lcGg[/video]

  
  

  
  I laughed so hard. By the way, is the video yours? Kinda bad if you're showing others video if you're making fun of it.
  
  
  

  Quote from jakjak4161;356107:

  
  -more maneuverability, for example, while spear lanns have to LLLLR to spin, sword lanns can just slip dash and double crescent> gliding fury> lightning fury.

  
  Disagreed. Gliding fury is based on critical, and it doesn't always happen, and you have less chance getting it on swords, so DC can't go into GF sometimes, but a spears' 3 hit smash will almost guaranteed a GF.
  
  

  Quote from jakjak4161;356107:

  -Much more adept at soloing dungeons than spear lanns (yea yea go cry, its true some spear lanns can solo just as well, but the amount of skill required to solo certain bosses on a spear lann is overkill. Sword lanns of equal skill level can do the solo much more effortlessly. See epic pwnzor below V
  

  [video=youtube;AzPCwwWvSKI]http://www.youtube.com/v/AzPCwwWvSKI[/video]

  
  

  
  Should also provide the spear black hammer solo video. And then proceed to say you need to be more skilled to be able to play spears well, while swords it is easier to play it well.
  
  

  Quote from jakjak4161;356107:

  
  -sometimes hated by party leaders for spinning too much and thus failing the BP missions
  

  haha, it's really not just spears, every class is the same. I even have Fionas beating up Aloof Innooch when we all wanted the object kill, they are just too focused into the fight.
  
  

  Quote from jakjak4161;356107:

  
  -A dead spear lann does 0 damage per second
  

  Any dead class deal 0 damage per second, you have already stressed that spears is easier to die, no need to mention this again.
  
  

  Quote from jakjak4161;356107:

  
  -too much spinning causes death
  

  Put it in this way. "Spinning is harder to control without getting hit."
  
  

  Quote from jakjak4161;356107:

  
  -cannot use slipdash, rolling costs 30 stamina
  

  and put in "no invincibility time frame. They can use sprint smash for a low cost get away, but no invincibility time frame is the real problem.[/quote]
  
  Also.
  I personally think spears has better maneuverability. LR and LLLR both 3 hit smash, LLR for a wide range trash mob one hit smash, hurricane for continuous dps, FI for critical chance (more damage and also can GF) and stamina, roll covers an instant long distance, able to crit, and also able to lower height to a really low point, sprint smash can also works as a dodge. The only thing missing is the invincibility time frame. (No hp doesn't affect maneuverability) Maybe for later, invincibility will becomes so useful that it opens up opportunities to do things that spears can't, but as far as boat 1-4 goes, swords is no where as maneuverable as spears. (Not sure about boat 5, haven't really seen a good spears recently.)
  
  And try to show the same boss for each weapon, better comparison.
• jakjak4161 wrote on 2011-03-03 03:10

  I laughed so hard. By the way, is the video yours? Kinda bad if you're showing others video if you're making fun of it.

  
  Not mine, whoever made it put it up as "red tyrant solo's a sword lann", I don't think he is going to mind. Even if he did, then well... QQ
  
  

  Disagreed. Gliding fury is based on critical, and it doesn't always happen, and you have less chance getting it on swords, so DC can't go into GF sometimes, but a spears' 3 hit smash will almost guaranteed a GF.

  
  you try setting up a 3rd smash on boat 5 raid bosses without getting your ass pwned~ almost never happens, whereas even if DC doesn't crit you can make a quick getaway.
  
  
  

  Should also provide the spear black hammer solo video. And then proceed to say you need to be more skilled to be able to play spears well, while swords it is easier to play it well.

  
  
  see
  
  

  but the amount of skill required to solo certain bosses on a spear lann is overkill. Sword lanns of equal skill level can do the solo much more effortlessly.

  
  
  as for the video, I couldn't find one I felt worthy of sharing for spear lanns... Most of them had transformations in them and that just ... yea
  
  
  

  haha, it's really not just spears, every class is the same. I even have Fionas beating up Aloof Innooch when we all wanted the object kill, they are just too focused into the fight.

  
  
  Talking about a general stereotype here, ask around.
  
  

  Any dead class deal 0 damage per second, you have already stressed that spears is easier to die, not need to mention this again.
  

  
  
  I don't believe I stressed that spears are easier to die before I made that point. (less survivable doesn't mean die alot) That idea may have been pre-assumed when you started reading this thread =p
  
  

  and put in "no invincibility time frame. They can use sprint smash for a low cost get away, but no invincibility time frame is the real problem.
  

  
  
  Most people can extrapolate from the sword lann's pros section, but good point, ill add that.
  
  

  Also.
  I personally think spears has better maneuverability. LR and LLLR both 3 hit smash, LLR for a wide range trash mob one hit smash, hurricane for continuous dps, FI for critical chance (more damage and also can GF) and stamina, roll covers an instant long distance, able to crit, and also able to lower height to a really low point, sprint smash can also works as a dodge. The only thing missing is the invincibility time frame. (No hp doesn't affect maneuverability) Maybe for later, invincibility will becomes so useful that it opens up opportunities to do things that spears can't, but as far as boat 1-4 goes, swords is no where as maneuverable as spears. (Not sure about boat 5, haven't really seen a good spears recently.)

  
  
  Try keeping up hurricane or setting up a decent LLR/ LLLR while doing klaus or queen, yea... The smash aspect of 3960 is definitely more maneuverable, but you maneuver at the cost of a lot of stamina, whereas DC->GF if crit, run away if not, costs a mere fraction of that. And if by maneuverable you mean spinning away from attacks until something dies, then yea for boat 1-4 it works perfectly. This was for a more endgame comparison.
  
  

  And try to show the same boss for each weapon, better comparison.

  
  That's also a good point, but I find the areas of comparison for the two are so immensely different, it would be of little importance which bosses I chose. (tell me honestly if you learn anything from watching a spear lann spin2win a boss to death... also the reason why I didn't put any lower lvl bosses for spear lanns, its just plain boring)
  
  Great comments, ill work on this a bit according to some of the suggestions. I feel as, however, you are greatly biased in-favor of the spear lanns, and I wish to remain as neutral as possible. (I play mainly on my evie now, got my lann to 56 then left it) And if the language some of the information is presented in bothers you, I apologize, this was originally posted in my guild forum, meant to be read amongst familiars.
• JkTyrant wrote on 2011-03-03 06:10
  Slightly off-topic rage...
  
  Yeah i hate people who don't listen to set objectives by the party leader. -_-
  
  If your not gonna listen, gtfo and host your own boat. (Also applies to afk'ers)
  
  They really need to add a boot system.:pissedoff:
• jakjak4161 wrote on 2011-03-03 06:13
  The thing is, by the time you figure out he doesnt follow set objectives, its usually too late. (i.e. the boss was killed with a smash and not a normal attack)
• JkTyrant wrote on 2011-03-03 06:27
  Most competent hosts would either have them as a title, i.e. [All BP Run - Blood Prince].
  Mention it before the boat starts, or couple seconds after you load into the run.
  
  ^ I only get mad when people don't follow what has been obviously laid out. I've seen both mine and other people's runs get ruined, and its quite frustrating.
  
  In the opposite case, when any objs is said by the host/any pt member, when the boss is in low health and is not completed, they are at fault.
• xJac wrote on 2011-03-03 16:30

  Quote from jakjak4161;357309:

  
  you try setting up a 3rd smash on boat 5 raid bosses without getting your ass pwned~ almost never happens, whereas even if DC doesn't crit you can make a quick getaway.
  I'm talking about 1st smash, which is quite easy to get it in. Also, just plain poking also works, as Spears has better critical chance (almost double than swrods)
  
  see
  I never said Spears is easier, I don't know what you're telling me to see.
  
  
  as for the video, I couldn't find one I felt worthy of sharing for spear lanns... Most of them had transformations in them and that just ... yea
  Just going to quote myself from the other thread, apparently you haven't looked far into them. (post is in General discussion, "Lanns" thread)
  Papa's famous hidden run
  Spin2win
  Poke Poke Poke
  Positioning
  
  
  
  Talking about a general stereotype here, ask around.
  It's pretty bad to talk about a stereotype in a guide, don't you think?
  
  
  I don't believe I stressed that spears are easier to die before I made that point. (less survivable doesn't mean die alot) That idea may have been pre-assumed when you started reading this thread =p
  Again, you already said less survivability. And you could have say it better with "FI cost your hp and make you easier to die, and any class dead = 0 dps", instead of just saying a dead Lann = 0 dps, which would leave out a question for newbie, what about other classes?
  
  
  
  Most people can extrapolate from the sword lann's pros section, but good point, ill add that.
  It's different. Saying swords have invincibility time frame just means swords has something to manipulate. Saying spears doesn't have invincibility time frames means Spears would have to use a different approach, which usually requires more effort.
  
  
  Try keeping up hurricane or setting up a decent LLR/ LLLR while doing klaus or queen, yea... The smash aspect of 3960 is definitely more maneuverable, but you maneuver at the cost of a lot of stamina, whereas DC->GF if crit, run away if not, costs a mere fraction of that. And if by maneuverable you mean spinning away from attacks until something dies, then yea for boat 1-4 it works perfectly. This was for a more endgame comparison.
  By maneuverable I don't mean just hurricane, the whole nature of spears is just more maneuverable. If you assume a player can play both swords and spears to their maximum potential, you will see the spears will be constantly on the move, while swords would have to occasionally back off due to bad positioning/low stamina. DC->GF doesn't always happen, and if you really go solo later bosses, most of the time you want to GF away (not dealing damage), or not GF at all, due to the boss attack coming way sooner than you can pull off GF. Often, the next time you have time for a GF, the critical just didn't happen. Spears don't have this problem. On top of that, for a Swords, clearing trash mob usually means Twin Edge 450, while spears can choose 1st/3rd smash for crit and then a GF, 2nd smash for a wide range, or even hurricane for a very mobile dps. Oh, not mentioning the FI, unlimited stamina, where as a Swords, when soloing, there will be time you used D&DC too many time in a row and would need to back away for stamina recovery.
  
  
  That's also a good point, but I find the areas of comparison for the two are so immensely different, it would be of little importance which bosses I chose. (tell me honestly if you learn anything from watching a spear lann spin2win a boss to death... also the reason why I didn't put any lower lvl bosses for spear lanns, its just plain boring)
  Again, spin2win is not noob technique, it's very pro. The noob is spin2die, same smash, different concept.
  
  Great comments, ill work on this a bit according to some of the suggestions. I feel as, however, you are greatly biased in-favor of the spear lanns, and I wish to remain as neutral as possible. (I play mainly on my evie now, got my lann to 56 then left it) And if the language some of the information is presented in bothers you, I apologize, this was originally posted in my guild forum, meant to be read amongst familiars.

  
  
  Keep in mind, I play as Swords all the way up to level 44, tried spears for a month or two, loved it, but still decided to stick to Swords as I have already put too much effort practicing the slip dash timing (and the mentality for it). For me, it's always Swords > Spears. But that doesn't mean I can outright deny Spears advantages. If this is a preference thread, then I wouldn't even bother typing so many words except saying "just pick which you like", but it's not.
  
  Spears has better damage (Critical) and maneuverability (stamina and just how spears is designed), while Swords has invincibility time frames cookie cutter (Slip dash rampage).
• jakjak4161 wrote on 2011-03-03 18:15
  too lazy to reply to all of that when I just woke up O-o, so just this.
  
  

  Again, spin2win is not noob technique, it's very pro. The noob is spin2die, same smash, different concept.

  
  never said spin2win is a noob technique now did I? Why would I share two videos then of pro spear lanns spin2winning.
  
  also this is pretty good(for a lack of better adjectives in the morning), have to think about it a bit.
  

  By maneuverable I don't mean just hurricane, the whole nature of spears is just more maneuverable. If you assume a player can play both swords and spears to their maximum potential, you will see the spears will be constantly on the move, while swords would have to occasionally back off due to bad positioning/low stamina. DC->GF doesn't always happen, and if you really go solo later bosses, most of the time you want to GF away (not dealing damage), or not GF at all, due to the boss attack coming way sooner than you can pull off GF. Often, the next time you have time for a GF, the critical just didn't happen. Spears don't have this problem. On top of that, for a Swords, clearing trash mob usually means Twin Edge 450, while spears can choose 1st/3rd smash for crit and then a GF, 2nd smash for a wide range, or even hurricane for a very mobile dps. Oh, not mentioning the FI, unlimited stamina, where as a Swords, when soloing, there will be time you used D&DC too many time in a row and would need to back away for stamina recovery.
  

  
  
  
  Cool vids though
• xJac wrote on 2011-03-04 02:35
  well, you said too much spinning means death, imo it's a general misconception. Spin takes a lot skill to use properly, that means most people fail at it and just die constantly, but that doesn't mean the spin is bad, it's just the player.
• jakjak4161 wrote on 2011-03-04 02:40

  Quote from xJac;358602:

  well, you said too much spinning means death, imo it's a general misconception. Spin takes a lot skill to use properly, that means most people fail at it and just die constantly, but that doesn't mean the spin is bad, it's just the player.

  
  
  most people aren't pros, and pros don't do "too much spinning"