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ZandarEagle wrote on 2011-04-09 15:26
So now my Lann is 62 and Evie is 51...and they are using pretty outdated pieces of armor. Thing is, I'm not sure what upgrades to get them. I've checked out all the gear in VindictusDB and there are just way too many sets to choose from, both in terms of quality, looks and price.
For my Lann I just basically want the cape (Kakrish chest I think) and then whatever gives the most stats/defense. A guildie of mine told me to go for 3 Kakrish and 2 Swift - is that a good idea?
Any budget options? The 61 armors aren't exactly cheap...:)
For my Evie I'm finding Cloth WAY too fragile at the moment, but I'm unsure as to whether investing in Heavy Armor Proficiency is wise, because Evie can't wear that many Heavy Armors to begin with, even with maxed Weight Endurance. What do you think would be a good set to shoot for? I'm thinking Royal Cadet, so I can get the title at least (is it even available for Evie?)
I'm open to any suggestions!
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foreignreign wrote on 2011-04-09 16:31
For Lann, the cheapest option is more than likely the 56 Sinister Half Plate set. It has the 3rd highest def (~300 behind Black Hammer, which has the most), highest ATT boost (barely), and weighs less than Black Hammer and Swift by 44 stones, but more than Kakrish by 140. The 3 Kakrish/2 Swift or 3 Black Hammer/2 Swift combinations are for maximum min/maxing your character's stats, but the difference is negligible enough for it to not be of any real importance. Not gonna go into detail about this since I typed up my Evie rant first and forgot about this, and I don't feel like going into hyper detail again. Maybe someone else will.
For Evie, her newest set, Vehemence, actually has decent defense. For the full set, you get 2070 defense (compared to the typical 1500 or less of most cloth sets). If you mix-and-match it with the Temptress set though, you can put it up to 2176 defense by wearing the Temptress Booties and Earrings of Temptation (this gets you the 2-part set bonus of +150 defense). And you'll also gain... 3 int, but that's not the point. The only problem with Vehemence is that the hat and chest are light armor, and you need Light Armor Proficiency r9 to wear it.
Other than that, if you want more defense you'll have to use a set that doesn't offer any int, so you'll be taking a significant hit in your damage output. I came up with some quick mixes just to help you decide (these aren't for looks):
Temptress Booties (+set bonus with Earrings of Temptation), Black Hammer Gauntlets + Greaves, Vehemence Hat + Jacket:
STR 290
AGI 130
INT 351
WIL 49
DEF 2887
Weight 324 (260 with proficiencies, ~225 after upgrades)
(requires Heavy, Plate and Light r9, Cloth rB)
Black Hammer Gauntlets + Boots, Temptress Dress (+set bonus with Earrings of Temptation), Vehemence Hat + Jacket:
STR 277
AGI 122
INT 349
WIL 65
DEF 2708
Weight 296 (232 with proficiencies, ~200 after upgrades)
(requires Heavy and Light r9, Cloth rB)
Raven Gloves + Boots, Vehemence Hat + Jacket, Temptress Dress (+set bonus with Earrings of Temptation):
STR 306
AGI 70
INT 349
WIL 61
DEF 2516
Weight 226 (162 with proficiencies, ~137 after upgrades)
(requires Light r9, Cloth rB)
Vehemence Hat + Gloves + Jacket + Skirt, Temptress Booties (+set bonus with Earrings of Temptation)
STR 100
AGI 108
INT 592
DEF 2176
Weight: 122 (90 with proficiencies, ~76 after upgrades)
(requires Cloth and Light r9)
So basically, if you want a significant increase in defense you're going to need to rank up Heavy and/or Plate to r9 which takes close to 1000 AP for each type, plus you'll more than likely need Weight Endurance, and you'll also be taking a significant hit in your int. Just so you know, my 61 Evie only has a max weight of 118 without Weight Endurance. WE adds 120, so a max of 238 at my level. And don't forget that you also have a weapon to hold.
If you just compare the Vehemence/Temptress with the highest def set here (first one), that's a 711 defense increase, for a loss of 241 int (which I believe is 482 MATT?). Of course, the problem with that is weight, so you won't want to use that. The only feasible set with higher def is really Raven/Vehemence/Temptress, unless you get higher than r9 proficiencies.
Choice is ultimately yours but you also have to spend a lot of time ranking up equipment skills.[SIZE="5"][/SIZE]
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ZandarEagle wrote on 2011-04-10 16:48
Wow, that's an incredibly detailed reply, at least for Evie...thanks! To be completely honest I focus on my Lann more than Evie (she's only an alt) but the information is appreciated nonetheless.
I actually already have Rank A Cloth and Light Armor Proficiency, so R9 isn't that big a deal. After thinking about it, I decided that I would wait for the staff revamp to buy any armor for her. The whole reason I need the defense is because when I run up to mobs to Firebolt, they do massive damage to me and tear through my shields (since this is Boat 5 and up) - with the coming revamp playstyle changes may mean I need different things from my armor.
Can Evie actually wear full sets of Heavy Armor though? (assuming maxed Weight Endurance, which I have) I remember reading somewhere that she had trouble with full Blood Prince or Laghodessa...but that was when the Proficiency and Mastery caps were low. I'm wondering whether it would be a viable option for Evie, assuming maxed weapon and armor equipment skills (since we can go up to R6 now, which represents big savings weight-wise)...maybe I should make a separate thread about it.
Back to Lann for the moment though. Aside from the Kakrish cape (which isn't THAT big a deal) I'm not really attracted to any particular look. I actually would like a clear path of advancement for armor, because I'm not one for customization...after looking at VindictusDB again I'm still confused at to what armor combination to go for - they all look largely the same! Maybe I'll just get the cheapest one...
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foreignreign wrote on 2011-04-10 18:04
Well, for Lann, your options are Sinister Half Plate, Black Hammer, Swift and Kakrish (if you really like the look of that). These sets all give about the same amount of ATT (this includes Sinister Half's set bonus from +ATT).
Cost-wise:
Black >= Kakrish > Swift > Sinister
Defense-wise:
Black Hammer > Swift > Sinister > Kakrish
(3409, 3319, 3119, 2607)
Agi-wise:
Swift > Black Hammer > Kakrish > Sinister
(195, 156, 128, 49)
WIL is negligible in this scenario since no set adds more than even 50 than another set, which isn't even a 1% crit chance difference.
Sinister still compares nicely to all the new sets despite being 5 levels lower and being cheaper to make. Even though it's usually on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of stats, keep in mind these are all small differences in stats, with the only significant difference being in defense (and you might not even really notice 300 DEF, who knows) and AGI.
But if you want the best *complete set*, go for Swift since it adds the most AGI. When you compare Swift's AGI to Sinister, you'll end up getting 3% more damage for your Furies (maybe 4% for F7).
If you want the best stats period, then you'll want to mix 3 parts of Black Hammer with 2 of Swift. I don't think there is any specific armor combination of 3 and 2 that is so much better than any other 3 and 2 to make that big of a difference, so you can pick whichever parts you like best from each and combine them. As an example of the stats you'll end up getting:
Swift Gauntlets + Boots, Black Hammer Greaves + Helm + Mail:
STR 703
AGI 180
WIL 90
DEF 3480
Which is ~80 STR above all of the sets, only 15 less AGI than a complete Swift, 56 less WIL than Sinister (which is less than 1% crit), and 71 more DEF than Black Hammer.
If you want to wear the Kakrish cape, I think stat-wise, it'd be best to wear it with the rest of the Sinister Set (since Sinister gets its +246 ATT boost at 4 pieces, which is what makes it so good), but you could wear it with any of the other sets and wouldn't notice a significant drop in stats, methinks.
As for Evie, even with +2 on a full Heavy Cadet and r6 Heavy, she can't wear higher-level heavy sets and still carry a weapon without being over weight (she'll be at ~200 for the set, and weapons are usually around 60 weight at r9 weapon proficiency). Most Evies who want DEF will just wear all of a heavy set minus the hat though. But even if you wear everything but the hat of Cadet, you'll only be at 2061 DEF. And if you put a Vehemence hat on that's only ~2500 DEF, but also with only +115 INT from your equips. I wouldn't say that's entirely worth it since Vehemence/Temptress gets 2176 DEF, and you can mix Vehemence/Temptress/Raven and get that same ~2500 DEF but with 200 more INT. The trade-off is only worth it if you're at the ATT/MATT cap for the higher-end bosses, but I don't think an Evie can get close to that without transforming.
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Mikey wrote on 2011-04-10 19:58
Quote from foreignreign;404036:
Well, for Lann, your options are Sinister Half Plate, Black Hammer, Swift and Kakrish (if you really like the look of that). These sets all give about the same amount of ATT (this includes Sinister Half's set bonus from +ATT).
Cost-wise:
Black >= Kakrish > Swift > Sinister
Defense-wise:
Black Hammer > Swift > Sinister > Kakrish
(3409, 3319, 3119, 2607)
Agi-wise:
Swift > Black Hammer > Kakrish > Sinister
(195, 156, 128, 49)
WIL is negligible in this scenario since no set adds more than even 50 than another set, which isn't even a 1% crit chance difference.
Sinister still compares nicely to all the new sets despite being 5 levels lower and being cheaper to make. Even though it's usually on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of stats, keep in mind these are all small differences in stats, with the only significant difference being in defense (and you might not even really notice 300 DEF, who knows) and AGI.
But if you want the best *complete set*, go for Swift since it adds the most AGI. When you compare Swift's AGI to Sinister, you'll end up getting 3% more damage for your Furies (maybe 4% for F7).
If you want the best stats period, then you'll want to mix 3 parts of Black Hammer with 2 of Swift. I don't think there is any specific armor combination of 3 and 2 that is so much better than any other 3 and 2 to make that big of a difference, so you can pick whichever parts you like best from each and combine them. As an example of the stats you'll end up getting:
Swift Gauntlets + Boots, Black Hammer Greaves + Helm + Mail:
STR 703
AGI 180
WIL 90
DEF 3480
Which is ~80 STR above all of the sets, only 15 less AGI than a complete Swift, 56 less WIL than Sinister (which is less than 1% crit), and 71 more DEF than Black Hammer.
If you want to wear the Kakrish cape, I think stat-wise, it'd be best to wear it with the rest of the Sinister Set (since Sinister gets its +246 ATT boost at 4 pieces, which is what makes it so good), but you could wear it with any of the other sets and wouldn't notice a significant drop in stats, methinks.
As for Evie, even with +2 on a full Heavy Cadet and r6 Heavy, she can't wear higher-level heavy sets and still carry a weapon without being over weight (she'll be at ~200 for the set, and weapons are usually around 60 weight at r9 weapon proficiency). Most Evies who want DEF will just wear all of a heavy set minus the hat though. But even if you wear everything but the hat of Cadet, you'll only be at 2061 DEF. And if you put a Vehemence hat on that's only ~2500 DEF, but also with only +115 INT from your equips. I wouldn't say that's entirely worth it since Vehemence/Temptress gets 2176 DEF, and you can mix Vehemence/Temptress/Raven and get that same ~2500 DEF but with 200 more INT. The trade-off is only worth it if you're at the ATT/MATT cap for the higher-end bosses, but I don't think an Evie can get close to that without transforming.
I love you so hard.
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ZandarEagle wrote on 2011-04-11 06:50
Another great reply! Thanks once again, it certainly clears things up more than how they were previously.
There is a ATT/MATT cap? I didn't even know about it. Is it only for Evie, or does each character have one? How does it work exactly?
I've decided to either go Sinister or maybe Sinister + Kakrish body and head for looks. I don't think the other sets have high enough stats to really justify the higher prices. But your analysis and summary helped a lot in my decision, so thanks once again.
Just as a side note - do you feel that 500 DEF really matters? I don't get hit that often as Lann (well, I try my best not to, at least) and when I die it's usually by being trapped in a corner, in which case no amount of DEF can really save me. Will it make a big difference? The only thing I don't like about Kakrish body is that it's Light Armor :(
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TheBoulder wrote on 2011-04-11 16:49
I'm surprised no one's mentioned Queen's Glory yet. Is it really that bad in comparison with everything else mentioned thus far?
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foreignreign wrote on 2011-04-11 17:04
Quote from ZandarEagle;404738:
There is a ATT/MATT cap? I didn't even know about it. Is it only for Evie, or does each character have one? How does it work exactly?
I'm only going by what others have said elsewhere, so this may not be entirely accurate (though I doubt that).
In the general damage formula, (ATT - DEF + 900 + extra damage * 6.25)* percentile * (1 + Base Mastery% + Mastery%), the portion where ATT - DEF is capped depending on your character's ATT and the enemy's DEF. If (your ATT - enemy DEF > 10,000) then your ATT will be set to 10,000 against that enemy even if it's higher than that. So for instance, if you have 15,000 ATT against a monster with 0 DEF, your ATT against it will be set to 10,000. I imagine MATT works the same.
Just as a side note - do you feel that 500 DEF really matters? I don't get hit that often as Lann (well, I try my best not to, at least) and when I die it's usually by being trapped in a corner, in which case no amount of DEF can really save me. Will it make a big difference? The only thing I don't like about Kakrish body is that it's Light Armor :(
I honestly can't really give an opinion about DEF since I use Fiona and Evie. My Fiona has 6000+ DEF while my Evie has 3000+, so it's more or less two extremes for me. I can't say if 500 is a noticeable difference, especially on Evie since when I don't have mana shields up I always feel like I'm going to die from a boss hit if I don't have Stone enchant's buff on. Compared to my Fiona who doesn't take that crap from any boss unless it's on hero or something.
If you use spears a lot, I would opt for the increased DEF over any increase in ATT/damage output if its only a slight boost.
Quote from TheBoulder;404913:
I'm surprised no one's mentioned Queen's Glory yet. Is it really that bad in comparison with everything else mentioned thus far?
Queen's Glory, despite being Heavy Armor, has piss-poor defense in comparison to Sinister Half and the 61 sets. It only has 2237 total (less than even Kakrish which is Light), and it has the same STR as the rest of the 61 sets so it's not any better on any level. Although I will admit that I wear Queen's Glory Helm on my Fiona for the Rage Enchant. I guess a sword Lann could make decent use of Rage but since it only procs on getting hit, a good sword Lann won't be seeing much use out of it.
Oh, and one word of warning: the number I got for equipment weight is a pure estimate. When I was looking at upgrade levels in-game, it looked like +0 -> +2 was about a 10% decrease in weight, generally speaking. Some gear got less than 10% though, closer to 70% or so.
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ZandarEagle wrote on 2011-04-12 01:35
Regarding cap - Hmm, so that explains why I don't seem to be killing monsters in Perilous Ruins any faster. It's good to know, thanks!
Yeah, upon further reflection, defense really seems to be a better bet than more ATK, since spear Lanns dish out plenty of damage anyhow. I'll probably go Sinister with a different head + other part (I hate the Sinister helm)
I have maxed Weight Endurance and I plan to get enhancements on some of the armor pieces, so I don't think weight will be a concern. Thanks for the heads-up though!
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mchotdog wrote on 2011-08-01 00:49
How does BH+Swift stack up to mixed of DC + ingkell or w/e?
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TA wrote on 2011-08-01 00:56
Quote from mchotdog;533445:
How does BH+Swift stack up to mixed of DC + ingkell or w/e?
Please check posting dates. It would probably be a good idea to make a new thread.