Cheon An Ship 천안함

• Mario wrote on 2010-05-20 21:01
  The Biggest Issue in South Korea and North Korea Right now... Info From New York Times.
  
  WASHINGTON — South Korea’s formal accusation that a North Korean torpedo sank one of its warships, killing 46 sailors, will set off a diplomatic drumbeat to punish North Korea, backed by the United States and other nations, which could end up in the United Nations Security Council.
  
  On Thursday morning in Seoul, the South Korean government presented forensic evidence, including part of a torpedo propeller with what investigators believe is a North Korean serial number.
  
  They said it proved that the underwater explosion that shattered the 1,200-ton corvette, the Cheonan, in March near a disputed sea border with the North was caused by the detonation of a torpedo.
  
  On Monday, South Korea is expected to push for the case to be referred to the United Nations, and the United States plans to back Seoul “strongly and unequivocally,” according to Obama administration officials.
  
  The investigation “points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that North Korea was responsible for this attack,” the White House said in a statement after the report was released in Seoul. “This act of aggression is one more instance of North Korea’s unacceptable behavior and defiance of international law.”
  
  The big question, the officials said, is whether China, North Korea’s neighbor and a veto-wielding member of the Security Council, will go along with yet another international condemnation of the North. China backed sanctions against North Korea last year after the North tested a nuclear device, but it has reacted with extreme caution since the ship sank on March 26.
  
  North Korea dismissed the findings as a fabrication and warned that it would wage “all-out war” if it were punished, North Korea’s official Korean Central News Agency reported.
  
  The sharp escalation of tensions on the Korean Peninsula complicates a trip to China by a delegation of senior American officials, led by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner, to hold a so-called Strategy and Economic Dialogue.
  
  Nearly 200 American officials will travel to Beijing this weekend to consult with their Chinese counterparts on an array of issues, including sanctions against Iran, China’s exchange rate, climate change policy and exchanges between the American and Chinese militaries.
  
  The American delegation will include officials as diverse as Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius and the commander of the United States Pacific Command, Adm. Robert F. Willard.
  
  The South Korean report, which essentially accuses the North of the worst military provocation on the Korean Peninsula since the end of the Korean War, injects a potentially combustible element into these talks. Among other things, it raises the question of how hard the United States plans to push Beijing to support a new Security Council resolution.
  
  For weeks after the sinking of the Cheonan, China urged caution in pointing fingers at North Korea, even though the evidence pointed strongly in that direction. On Wednesday, South Korea briefed Chinese diplomats, as well as those of other countries, about its findings.
  
  “China has always tried to avoid making choices between North and South Korea, but an incident like this doesn’t allow that,” said Victor Cha, a former Bush administration official, responsible for North Korean policy, who now teaches at Georgetown University. “They have to choose.”
  
  For the United States, the calculus is also complicated. The Obama administration just won China’s backing for a fourth round of United Nations sanctions against Iran related to its nuclear program. That, some analysts said, was the administration’s main strategic priority at this point.
  
  Still, the United States has been deeply involved in the South’s investigation of the sinking. It sent a team from the Navy’s Pacific Command to take part in the search for clues, officials said, headed by an expert in submarine escape and rescue, Rear Adm. Thomas J. Eccles.
  
  Australia, Canada, Britain and Sweden also took part in the investigation and will endorse its conclusions, officials said. South Korea, the officials said, wanted to have an international team so it would be harder for the North to dismiss the inquiry as politically motivated.
  
  South Korea is weighing other measures against North Korea, which could include cutting imports of raw materials from the North. Those shipments have already been constricted since the North closed several North-South joint-venture companies north of the border.
  
  South Korea could also undertake naval exercises in its coastal waters as a form of muscle-flexing, Mr. Cha said, perhaps in cooperation with the United States.
  
  But the world’s leverage over North Korea is extremely limited, analysts said. The North has little trade with its neighbors, aside from China. It no longer admits United Nations inspectors to visit its nuclear facilities and announced in 2003 that it would withdraw from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.
  
  On Thursday, Japan said that the report on the sinking would make it harder to resume six-party talks with North Korea over the fate of its nuclear program.
  
  Add to the uncertainty are the motivations, health and even state of mind of North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-il, remained cloaked in mystery. Mr. Kim recently met in Beijing with President Hu Jintao, Prime Minister Wen Jiabao and other leaders.
  
  Kurt M. Campbell, the assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific affairs, said he discussed Mr. Kim’s visit with Chinese officials earlier this week. He predicted that it would be a prime topic for Mrs. Clinton when she meets with Dai Bingguo, a state councilor in charge of foreign affairs.
  
  “A central issue of discussion for Secretary Clinton and her Chinese interlocutors, Dai Bingguo and also the Chinese leaders, will be on their assessments of developments in North Korea and their reaction to the report,” he said.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-05-20 21:37
  Hah, it almost sounds as if Kim is going to fork over North Korea to China and say "we leave it in your good hands".
  
  Think of the rage south koreans cause.
• Osayidan wrote on 2010-05-20 22:46
  If china backs the north, nothing will happen.
  If china backs the south, within 10 years there will only be one korea.
• Mario wrote on 2010-05-20 22:46
  South Korea has enough evidences to prove it was North Korea who shot the missiles but they kept on denying it.
  Whats more funny is that they are threatening us to go on a war for accusing them. (Wow)
  In return, President of South Korea is stopping all the supplies going to North Korea and blocking the trading blocs connected to North Korea.
  
  I think we should go on a war now since they left us with no choice.
  Only thing I worry is that South Korea and North Korea will get poor once they go on a war.
  
  

  Quote from Osayidan;40355:

  If china backs the north, nothing will happen.
  If china backs the south, within 10 years there will only be one korea.

  
  
  Are you saying that China is strong enough to make South and North United or not?
  Don't forget even U.S has failed to unite these countries.
• Osayidan wrote on 2010-05-20 22:51
  I'm saying that if China "chooses" North, like it says in the article, where china will have to make a choice, nothing will happen because no one wants to mess with china. China can destroy the US in a week.
  
  If china support the South, which they should... then the north is screwed. They will burrow themselves into their country, with no supplies coming in, or any trade going out. They will get famine/poverty, possibly civil unrest... if they don't have smaller variations of that already. They will destroy themselves from the inside, Kim will die of age/health... end result is in 10 years or less north korea is done.
  
  Also don't double post.
• Mario wrote on 2010-05-20 22:56
  I am sure U.S will win if they go on a war with China.. If they can't defeat China by themselves, they will request help from other countries and destroy China.

  Quote from Osayidan;40362:

  I'm saying that if China "chooses" North, like it says in the article, where china will have to make a choice, nothing will happen because no one wants to mess with china. China can destroy the US in a week.
  
  If china support the South, which they should... then the north is screwed. They will burrow themselves into their country, with no supplies coming in, or any trade going out. They will get famine/poverty, possibly civil unrest... if they don't have smaller variations of that already. They will destroy themselves from the inside, Kim will die of age/health... end result is in 10 years or less north korea is done.
  
  Also don't double post.

  
  
  one more point, they have better technology in war systems and have wide connection
• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-05-20 23:07
  Get your head out of your nationalistic plug.
  
  The USA will not dare to go against China, not because of their military strength but their economic strength. America NEEDS China to survive. This goes for MANY other nations. If there was a fight between China and America, many nations will not just simply hop on to America's favor, because their economy lives off of China.
  
  If China decides to back up the North, then thats that. The United States will not make enemies with China. We'll most likely just go back to a standstill like we've always been. Not only that, but China is one of the only nations that trades with North Korea.
  
  So yes, China is THE deciding factor as to whether or not North Korea screwed or not. Without China's support, North Korea will run dry of resources in a matter of years. If China decides to support South Korea, they're practically ruined.
  
  And there is no "proof" that the North Korean torpedoes sank the South Korean ship. Any "evidence" can be easily fabricated to leverage the diplomatic favors to their own side, and rouse the civilians into entering the military. I'm not saying this is the case, but it easily could be.
  
  

  Quote from Mario;40359:

  Are you saying that China is strong enough to make South and North United or not?
  Don't forget even U.S has failed to unite these countries.

  
  
  Yes. I am saying exactly that.
  
  The reason why North Korea exists in the first place is because China threatened the United States with a WW3. Korea could've been unified by the end of the Korean War, but the Chinese were pretty much ready to pummel back if needed, which is why the line was drawn and we're now just idling.
• Mario wrote on 2010-05-20 23:11
  I know U.S won't go on a war with China because of all the factories there. I am just saying what if,

  Quote from kitaek27;40372:

  Get your head out of your nationalistic plug.
  
  The USA will not dare to go against China, not because of their military strength but their economic strength. America NEEDS China to survive. This goes for MANY other nations. If there was a fight between China and America, many nations will not just simply hop on to America's favor, because their economy lives off of China.
  
  If China decides to back up the North, then thats that. The United States will not make enemies with China. We'll most likely just go back to a standstill like we've always been. Not only that, but China is one of the only nations that trades with North Korea.
  
  So yes, China is THE deciding factor as to whether or not North Korea screwed or not. Without China's support, North Korea will run dry of resources in a matter of years. If China decides to support South Korea, they're practically ruined.
  
  And there is no "proof" that the North Korean torpedoes sank the South Korean ship. Any "evidence" can be easily fabricated to leverage the diplomatic favors to their own side, and rouse the civilians into entering the military. I'm not saying this is the case, but it easily could be.
  
  
  
  Yes. I am saying exactly that.
  The reason why North Korea exists in the first place is because China threatened the United States with a WW3.

• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-05-20 23:13
  I edited my post. Read it again.
  
  Also, its not just the factories. It'd be another great war between two sides forming allies left and right.
  
  And trust me. A lot of nations are ready to give America a good smacking if the chance rises, and we would literally have a World War 3 on our hands.
  
  China doesn't want to go to war either. They might support North Korea, but they more or less do it for economic reasons and for the fear of North's nuclear weapons. Besides trading, there is no way they would support North Korea if they declared war.
• Mario wrote on 2010-05-20 23:18
  I am sure China won't go a war with South to help North (Also against all the supporters of south korea including U.S).
  But U.S will go on a war if that happens. (They always want to get involved in wars

  Quote from kitaek27;40384:

  I edited my post. Read it again.
  
  Also, its not just the factories. It'd be another great war between two sides forming allies left and right.
  
  And trust me. A lot of nations are ready to give America a good smacking if the chance rises, and we would literally have a World War 3 on our hands.
  
  China doesn't want to go to war either. They might support North Korea, but they more or less do it for economic reasons and for the fear of North's nuclear weapons. Besides trading, there is no way they would support North Korea if they declared war.

• Lan wrote on 2010-05-20 23:21

  Quote from Mario;40390:

  I am sure China won't go a war with South to help North (Also against all the supporters of south korea including U.S).
  But U.S will go on a war if that happens. (They always want to get involved in wars

  
  
  Wars cost money, the US has spent Trillions on wars -.- It cannot afford a pointless war.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-05-20 23:22

  Quote from Mario;40390:

  (They always want to get involved in wars

  
  
  >Just lost all credibility.
  
  Anyways, its just one big game of bluff right now anyways. There isn't going to be a war.
  North Korea is threatening with a war in hopes that China maintains its trading relation with them. Otherwise they're screwed either way, and they know this. Everyone else is just taking it small steps at a time in the slight chance that it isn't a bluff.
  
  I'd rather a war not happen. I have many friends in the US marines and most of them will probably be sent to Korea if there is one. Also, Seoul is a pretty damn large city, and its pretty far up North. It's a very easy target, and it'll demolish all of South Korea's research and technological advancements if the city is lost.
• Osayidan wrote on 2010-05-20 23:22
  It wouldn't really be WW3, there wouldn't be a world left. Once that first nuke lifts off, all of them lift off.
• Lan wrote on 2010-05-20 23:25

  Quote from Osayidan;40397:

  It wouldn't really be WW3, there wouldn't be a world left. Once that first nuke lifts off, all of them lift off.

  
  
  Is there anyone stupid enough to actually launch a nuke?
• Mario wrote on 2010-05-20 23:25
  U.S will not waste their money for the war.
  They will request all the money to South Korea saying that they are doing it for them.
  
  And Lan, I am sure North will.. They are the one who was threatening South that they will launch Nuke whole time.