Giant ranger destiny

• Blassreiter wrote on 2011-05-27 01:13

  Quote from Dracius;456510:

  Throwing attack has 100% knockdown and hit-rate. That's why it has a cooldown.
  I think they just added in Throwing Attack as a "fun skill," as Giants beat every other race in melee by a kilometre.
  
  I love how all the videos of "OP Ranged Skills" all have ONLY Arrow Revolver.
  ...
  
  No, I don't. The hit-rate for Arrow Revolver is impossibly high compared to Elven Ranged/Human Ranged at the same %

  
  
  No, Throwing Attack DOES NOT have a 100% Knockdown rate. (Good idea though, they really should include it since enemies rush at you before you can throw another spear)
  
  It only knockdowns because they enemy was either deadlied or is killed, which in case they get knocked down if they're deadly/killed. If they're hit by a javelin, they're only stunned.
  
  [video=youtube;EdM7Syj7J4g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdM7Syj7J4g[/video]
  
  Post G13 Throw does the same thing except it has that cooldown albeit stronger hits.
  _______________________________________________________________
  
  Ok, considering that Arrow Revolver is Human Ranged (yes I know it's instant 99% at Rank 1 for the first shot), look at how Elves do their ranged attack. They get a ranged attack as fast as AR and potentially stronger because they have 2x crit damage due to two arrows. They can also do shoot and run thanks to mounted archery:
  
  [video=youtube;cVCWRnsfQbg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVCWRnsfQbg[/video]
  
  Broken enough?
• Kaeporo wrote on 2011-05-27 03:27

  Quote from Blassreiter;456521:

  No, Throwing Attack DOES NOT have a 100% Knockdown rate. (Good idea though, they really should include it since enemies rush at you before you can throw another spear)
  
  It only knockdowns because they enemy was either deadlied or is killed, which in case they get knocked down if they're deadly/killed. If they're hit by a javelin, they're only stunned.
  
  [video=youtube;EdM7Syj7J4g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdM7Syj7J4g[/video]
  
  Post G13 Throw does the same thing except it has that cooldown albeit stronger hits.
  _______________________________________________________________
  
  Ok, considering that Arrow Revolver is Human Ranged (yes I know it's instant 99% at Rank 1 for the first shot), look at how Elves do their ranged attack. They get a ranged attack as fast as AR and potentially stronger because they have 2x crit damage due to two arrows. They can also do shoot and run thanks to mounted archery:
  
  [video=youtube;cVCWRnsfQbg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVCWRnsfQbg[/video]
  
  Broken enough?

  
  
  You don't seem to understand that each race has certain advantages/disadvantages. Giants have crippled versatility with ranged attacks but they make up for it by having the most effective melee in the game. Elves might be awesome with ranged attacks but they have the worst melee skills in the game (not to mention, ranged attacks are unreliable).
  
  Also, Arrow Revolver...overpowered? Don't make me laugh. It's SP heavy, deals incrementally weak damage and triggers natural shield. If Giants had ranged skills on-par with Humans/Elves, they would possess the most effective set of skills--thus centralizing the metagame.
  
  The best thing about Elven rangers (compared to Human rangers) is their reduced magnum shot load time and the ability to utilize ranged attacks from atop a mount.
  
  As far as bypassing heavy stander is concerned, utilize magic/alchemy skills. Very, very few enemies possess Lv3 Heavy Stander and Mana Deflector.
  
  ...of course you could, you know, party with elven/human rangers.
• Juno wrote on 2011-05-27 03:49
  Crippled versatility isn't even scratching the surface .-.
  
  A disadvantage is fine, but as it stands giants don't really have a usuable ranged attack.
• Blassreiter wrote on 2011-05-27 04:01

  Quote from Kaeporo;456662:

  You don't seem to understand that each race has certain advantages/disadvantages. Giants have crippled versatility with ranged attacks but they make up for it by having the most effective melee in the game. Elves might be awesome with ranged attacks but they have the worst melee skills in the game (not to mention, ranged attacks are unreliable).
  
  Also, Arrow Revolver...overpowered? Don't make me laugh. It's SP heavy, deals incrementally weak damage and triggers natural shield. If Giants had ranged skills on-par with Humans/Elves, they would possess the most effective set of skills--thus centralizing the metagame.
  
  The best thing about Elven rangers (compared to Human rangers) is their reduced magnum shot load time and the ability to utilize ranged attacks from atop a mount.
  
  As far as bypassing heavy stander is concerned, utilize magic/alchemy skills. Very, very few enemies possess Lv3 Heavy Stander and Mana Deflector.
  
  ...of course you could, you know, party with elven/human rangers.

  
  
  I completely understand the intended advantages/disadvantages of Giant/Human/Elves, but my point is why are elves able to do this:
  [video=youtube;M7gl_a3PeU0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7gl_a3PeU0[/video]
  
  when they're supposed to be melee deficient? Giants are Ranged deficient and this proves it:
  [video=youtube;rNgs98JCpPQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNgs98JCpPQ[/video]
  
  It takes about a minute for a pre G13 Throwing Attack to clear 1 newbie dungeon Longa Room, while it takes about 15+ seconds to clear one Karu room as a melee elf (partially thanks to Windmill).
  As you have mentioned Elves are melee deficient and Giants are ranged deficient, but why are elves allowed to have a efficient melee (meaning they are able to do an entire dungeon with melee) while giants are screwed over with a cooldown?? Now you might say "Just use your OP melee then", but as I have said a couple of times, how can I use melee (other than Windmill spam) on enemies that have no Natural Shield but they have Heavy Stander? (Like a Cyclops for example) And I don't know about you, but I have seen some Elves rip apart Hardmode enemies within seconds with just ranged attacks, along with mounted archery. 200+ damage per arrow shot is pretty intense if you ask me.
  
  Arrow Revolver is chaincasting arrows, if you have high dex with an ego bow your AR is going to deal heavy damage. Besides as many people said Humans are not focused on one specialty so their ranged isn't that impressive but it's no laughing matter either. Not to mention that they're great in melee as well so it makes up for it no? I'm not saying that I want giants to get a ranged attack that topples Human Ranged, I just want giants to get a skill we can actually use as a ranged attack, like for instances such as the Giant Moth in Peaca. Using melee on it is utterly pointless except for kbing.
  
  Double post accident.
  
  On a scale of 10, Elf Ranged falls around 9~10,Elf Melee falls around 4~6 / Giant Melee fals around 9~10 but Giant Range is non-existant.
  
  Small list of monsters with Heavy Stander (Level 1+) and no Natural Shield (level 1 or lower) I know Level 1 HS can be damaged, but activating it is very troublesome. It restricts your skills to be WM/Smash/KD skills, while rangers can just disptach them from far away.
  *Aonbarr
  *Argos
  *Balrog
  *Ruins Gargoyles
  *Pink & White Succubus
  *Black Warrior
  *Hallow Knight
  *Brown Prison Ghost
  *Giant Moths
  *Ghasts
  *Master Lich
  *Etc.
• Zid wrote on 2011-05-27 04:20

  Quote from Blassreiter;456493:

  The point I'm trying to make is that Giants can't do jack s#1t to enemies that can be easily dispatched by ranged attacks (i.e. they have Heavy Stander but no Natural Shield making ranged attacks much more efficient, which Elves and Humans have but Giants do not)
  
  My whole argument, Throwing Attack is friggen useless with a damn cooldown. Either get rid of the cooldown and maybe lower the damage, or just make it as stronger than a Fireball.

  
  
  Then you switch to Magic/Alchemy. Or you hold off opposing forces until your Throw Attack is ready.
  
  Personally, Throw Attack, to me, was useless before its change. With its change, I use it every other moment if I can, because of its pretty decent burst damage compared to its former Stomp-like DPS. Yes, I thought 25 seconds was too much though. 7 seconds to me is another story.
  
  Again though, since Melee =/= Ranged, it makes not-as-much-sense to rebalance Throw Attack with regards to, say, Elf Melee.
  
  7 seconds is a generous cooldown. That's already 3x faster than before. As it stands the way I see it, the lowest reasonable timeframe for the cooldown is 4 seconds for Throw Attack. Any lower than that, and the skill would be broke.
  
  I agree knock down (or at least knock back) would be nice to have though.
• Juno wrote on 2011-05-27 04:36
  On a 7 second cooldown, it's still pathetic, though much better. It's useful for switching to on occasion but is hopeless as far as standing alone goes.
  
  Nevertheless, I think that's a good place for it. Perhaps a faster load time since it has a cooldown now and is only really used in the midst of other weapon combos.
• Blassreiter wrote on 2011-05-27 04:40

  Quote from Zid;456718:

  Then you switch to Magic/Alchemy. Or you hold off opposing forces until your Throw Attack is ready.
  
  Personally, Throw Attack, to me, was useless before its change. With its change, I use it every other moment if I can, because of its pretty decent burst damage compared to its former Stomp-like DPS. Yes, I thought 25 seconds was too much though. 7 seconds to me is another story.
  
  Again though, since Melee =/= Ranged, it makes not-as-much-sense to rebalance Throw Attack with regards to, say, Elf Melee.
  
  7 seconds is a generous cooldown. That's already 3x faster than before. As it stands the way I see it, the lowest reasonable timeframe for the cooldown is 4 seconds for Throw Attack. Any lower than that, and the skill would be broke.
  
  I agree knock down (or at least knock back) would be nice to have though.

  
  
  True, you can switch to Magic/Alchemy while waiting but the fact that you have to switch to wait is very stupid. Elves don't have to switch to Magic after they crit Windmill a bunch of mobs and take out half or all of their HP depending on how much strength the Elf has. Making Giants handicapped like this is very frustrating. It's as if certain group of people can get their food at the line right here while the other group of people has to fly to New Zealand.
• Malogg wrote on 2011-05-27 04:43
  That is funny as hell. xD
• Xemnas wrote on 2011-05-27 04:55
  How did this thread turn into a massive debate, it's just a vid to show the cooldown on throwing attack sucks.
  
  @_@
• Chromatic wrote on 2011-05-27 05:37

  Quote from Xemnas;455839:

  it's getting reduced to 7 second in g14s3 but I was thinking about making a parody of those destiny videos with this, except just standing around the whole time.

  
  
  doubt you can copy the dmg
• Xemnas wrote on 2011-05-27 05:49

  Quote from Chromatic;456789:

  doubt you can copy the dmg

  
  
  ???
  
  
  

  [Image: http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3650/faildamage.jpg]
• Cucurbita wrote on 2011-05-27 05:58
  Maybe it should be given an entirely new property. With such a cooldown and less than great damage, there is no incentive to ever use it. Maybe stun the enemy, like it does on vindictus.
• Chromatic wrote on 2011-05-27 07:59

  Quote from Xemnas;456801:

  ???
  
  
  

  [Image: http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3650/faildamage.jpg]

  
  
  GO GO :D