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Phunkie wrote on 2011-06-06 20:56
I love discussing stuff, so why not discuss the expansion of the Universe?
It's expanding with increasing acceleration due to the presence of dark energy. We don't know if it'll retract and collapse back onto itself (Big Crunch) or if it'll keep expanding forever (Big Rip), or if it's a continuous cycle of expansion and collapsing (Big Bounce).
If it all started with the Big Bang, however, what the hell is "outside" of our Universe? If it's expanding, that means it's expanding into something, no? Just like a balloon expands into the atmosphere as you blow air or helium into it.
Discuss.
Is there anything "outside" of our expanding, finite, boundless Universe?
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Time wrote on 2011-06-06 21:02
There could be, or there could not be, in reality humans probably will never know for sure...
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Chiyuri wrote on 2011-06-06 21:25
other expanding universes?
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Xemnas wrote on 2011-06-06 21:27
there could be universes within our universe too small too see.
there's too many variables to ever know the real answer.
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Mama wrote on 2011-06-06 22:11
I just imagine a fractal.
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-06-12 03:32
Outside the local galactic superclusters which spans over 1.5 YM at the most observable distance of 140 YM (1.4 x 10^26 Meters) in space?
Hard to tell. I would guess that outside our supercluster is just more black space, but it is hard to know if there is another supercluster far far away since it is beyond the observable distances. The estimated size of the universe is 900 YM though.
Scale of the Universe
B> Warp Technology
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Arifiene wrote on 2011-06-15 16:06
>If it's expanding, that means it's expanding into something, no?
No, no it does not. The universe IS space - all of it.
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Joker wrote on 2011-06-15 16:42
Quote from Phigga;470589:
I love discussing stuff, so why not discuss the expansion of the Universe?
It's expanding with increasing acceleration due to the presence of dark energy. We don't know if it'll retract and collapse back onto itself (Big Crunch) or if it'll keep expanding forever (Big Rip), or if it's a continuous cycle of expansion and collapsing (Big Bounce).
If it all started with the Big Bang, however, what the hell is "outside" of our Universe? If it's expanding, that means it's expanding into something, no? Just like a balloon expands into the atmosphere as you blow air or helium into it.
Discuss.
Is there anything "outside" of our expanding, finite, boundless Universe?
Very interesting I never thought of it expanding into something... but that the something is the expanding of itself... don't think of the universe as ... an ink globule (universe) spreading in a vast amount of water (expandable area).
Think of it like water slowly spreading out over a infinite invisible table.. though when they say space is empty... I disagree cause I believe in the quantum physics theory of space and everything being something everything is made of particles of waves and such :)
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TA wrote on 2011-06-15 17:10
I imagine our entire universe much like a single atom. Atoms and planets, after all, have quite a lot in common. So it would make sense to quantify the simplest things in the universe to the most complex. That is, the universe itself.
Though I would say that if we are a single atom, or more precisely, perhaps we're more like a floating algae in the ocean. This would mean that while our universe consists of anything within this "algae", outside it is an entirely different existence. Which, we certainly may not be capable of surviving in due to our very nature.
It seems almost simple when you think of it like our entire universe could just be some speck on some world mind blowingly large, in a universe of its own, which may be similar or dissimilar to our own.
If there was some sort of outside reactionary force to cause a sudden growth, that would go to imply that there must be something else outside our universe which might have caused, or allowed, such a phenomena to occur. Some people quantify this with a god. But, I think it's probably much more simple than that, much like the creation of an atom. It's seemingly random, but not really. Some things just occur naturally.
There's quite a few ways our universe could exist, and I wouldn't pretend to know the precise way that it does. But perhaps it's a bit like what we observe as a nebula. In the vastness of space, a nebula can expand for what seems like forever, and certainly would to one single atom near the center of that nebula (as any end to that space would be out of our technological abilities to ascertain and/or observe). It's not as far off as it may seem, as in our universe, we are certainly as small as a single atom. Dare I say even much much smaller. Like a hadron or quarks, but much smaller even.
With that said, I certainly suspect that quarks do indeed have smaller blocks making them up. We're simply incapable thus far of being able to discover this fact.
As for assuming that our universe is existence in its entirety... Well, that's just silly. If it were all of existence and existence is simply expanding, it discounts the fact that some sort of outside force triggered its formation in the first place, and such an event would be unlikely to have occurred within the structure. The old chicken or the egg. If we're the egg, then what was the chicken? And if it was the chicken that came first, then oho... What about its egg?! It can go on ad infinitum.
But basically, we can't know, and I wouldn't pretend to. True wisdom is in knowing how little you know.
In a quantifiable sense, I could theorize that our universe itself is a part of a much larger super universe, which in turn may contain many universes. Which in and of itself, may very well be part of an even larger universe, and it would be unclear how far this would continue.
But, if we were as a single atom, the existence of beings of a higher existence would certainly be explainable. If our entire existence is a single atom, then could a being equal to our own size, at the scale of ourselves to an atom, not create an atom? We certainly can, even at our level of advancement. Though communicating to infinitely small beings within a much smaller substructure within this atom would be infinitely more difficult. Though, such a theory would explain away any true instances of any "god" and the like. It could also explain time discrepancies, if they are timed at a different phase from our own. Theirs may be much faster or much slower than our own. Events such as an apocalypse for instance, if it were foretold, being a single second late in doing so could, in our world, equate to thousands or even millions of years.
Of course, I don't believe in any "gods" like that. I think it's more of some natural occurrence a part of something much much larger.
Anywho, that's just what I think.
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Joker wrote on 2011-06-15 17:16
Quote from TA;480620:
[SPOILER="Spoiler"]I imagine our entire universe much like a single atom. Atoms and planets, after all, have quite a lot in common. So it would make sense to quantify the simplest things in the universe to the most complex. That is, the universe itself.
Though I would say that if we are a single atom, or more precisely, perhaps we're more like a floating algae in the ocean. This would mean that while our universe consists of anything within this "algae", outside it is an entirely different existence. Which, we certainly may not be capable of surviving in due to our very nature.
It seems almost simple when you think of it like our entire universe could just be some speck on some world mind blowingly large, in a universe of its own, which may be similar or dissimilar to our own.
If there was some sort of outside reactionary force to cause a sudden growth, that would go to imply that there must be something else outside our universe which might have caused, or allowed, such a phenomena to occur. Some people quantify this with a god. But, I think it's probably much more simple than that, much like the creation of an atom. It's seemingly random, but not really. Some things just occur naturally.
There's quite a few ways our universe could exist, and I wouldn't pretend to know the precise way that it does. But perhaps it's a bit like what we observe as a nebula. In the vastness of space, a nebula can expand for what seems like forever, and certainly would to one single atom near the center of that nebula (as any end to that space would be out of our technological abilities to ascertain and/or observe). It's not as far off as it may seem, as in our universe, we are certainly as small as a single atom. Dare I say even much much smaller. Like a hadron or quarks, but much smaller even.
With that said, I certainly suspect that quarks do indeed have smaller blocks making them up. We're simply incapable thus far of being able to discover this fact.
As for assuming that our universe is existence in its entirety... Well, that's just silly. If it were all of existence and existence is simply expanding, it discounts the fact that some sort of outside force triggered its formation in the first place, and such an event would be unlikely to have occurred within the structure. The old chicken or the egg. If we're the egg, then what was the chicken? And if it was the chicken that came first, then oho... What about it's egg?! It can go on ad infinitum.
But basically, we can't know, and I wouldn't pretend to. True wisdom is in knowing how little you know.
In a quantifiable sense, I could theorize that our universe itself is a part of a much larger super universe, which in turn may contain many universes. Which in and of itself, may very well be part of an even larger universe, and it would be unclear how far this would continue.
But, if we were as a single atom, the existence of beings of a higher existence would certainly be explainable. If our entire existence is a single atom, then could a being equal to our own size, at the scale of ourselves to an atom, not create an atom? We certainly can, even at our level of advancement. Though communicating to infinitely small beings within a much smaller substructure within this atom would be infinitely more difficult. Though, such a theory would explain away any true instances of any "god" and the like. It could also explain time discrepancies, if they are timed at a different phase from our own. Theirs may be much faster or much slower than our own. Events such as an apocalypse for instance, if it were foretold, being a single second late in doing so could, in our world, equate to thousands or even millions of years.
Of course, I don't believe in any "gods" like that. I think it's more of some natural occurrence a part of something much much larger.
Anywho, that's just what I think.[/SPOILER]
Makes me think of ... the men in black theory... If you remember that old movie (awesome movie btw). The ending of either 1 or 2... showed a locker or was it a door..? cant remember, anyways it lead to the space our galaxy... and more galaxies... then to the universe.... then to a marble... being held by these aliens...playing marbles.. (each marble representing a different *Universe*) something of a parodied look on it but still curious don't you think?
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TA wrote on 2011-06-15 17:19
Quote from Joker;480625:
Makes me think of ... the men in black theory... If you remember that old movie (awesome movie btw). The ending of either 1 or 2... showed a locker or was it a door..? cant remember, anyways it lead to the space our galaxy... and more galaxies... then to the universe.... then to a marble... being held by these aliens...playing marbles.. (each marble representing a different *Universe*) something of a parodied look on it but still curious don't you think?
Well, it's certainly an interesting take. I've had my theory long before the movie came out however... :P
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chaolin wrote on 2011-06-19 02:58
Quote from Chiyuri;470630:
other expanding universes?
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26132/
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