Spear or Sword Lann

• Basilisck wrote on 2011-07-17 22:29
  I'm still learning about vindictus ...but recently i saw that there are 2 types of lann ...on spear/sword...
  So now i would like to know what are the advantages of a spear lann and a sword lann
  Thx in advance
• Four wrote on 2011-07-18 09:43
  In short;
  
  Spear Lanns = High Damage, low survivability.
  
  Sword Lanns = Low Damage, somewhat high survivability.
• fieonavy wrote on 2011-07-18 10:25
  not true, only if yur one of those idiot spear lanns then yes, low survivability. but i guess it is SORT of true since 90% of the spear lann users are idiots and spin to win.
• Invertex wrote on 2011-07-18 10:34

  Quote from fieonavy;516847:

  not true, only if yur one of those idiot spear lanns then yes, low survivability. but i guess it is SORT of true since 90% of the spear lann users are idiots and spin to win.

  
  
  It's very true actually. Most "important" (once a day raid) bosses have moves that Spear Lann can't actually dodge without luck (Crit -> Gliding Fury), or secondaries (Palala). It's not even about skill level, even Raidhunter has in his Thor video description that the only way to solo is to kill Thor faster then he kills you. He literally goes full blown spin2win the instant Thor berserks as it's the only way to kill him at that point. In parties you could technically back down when he aggros you and wait for him to refocus on someone else, but his spin2win hits often and is more likely to attract aggro. Backing off also lowers your overall damage, which is what Spear Lann is supposed to specialize at. Spear Lann's dodge is terrible and compared to everyone else, his survivability is very low.
  
  In order to pull comparitive damage numbers to Hammer Fionas and Staff Evies, you'll need to be that much more well equipped and skilled, and chances are you'll still die more often compared to the others.
  
  Anyways, that aside.
  
  Sword Lann
  -Slip Dash is a very good dodge
  -His DPS is subpar unless you can critical -> Gliding Fury
  
  Spear Lann
  -3960 Hurricane (w/e it's called) is good DPS
  -Lacks a proper dodge, has to resort to sprint smash and roll
  -DPS is still reliant on the ability to critical -> Gliding Fury
  
  That's what I think the main difference is. An experienced Lann can correct me if I'm wrong.
• Four wrote on 2011-07-18 11:59

  Quote from fieonavy;516847:

  not true, only if yur one of those idiot spear lanns then yes, low survivability. but i guess it is SORT of true since 90% of the spear lann users are idiots and spin to win.

  
  Completely true, unless you're referring to non-raids below boat 8.
  

  Quote from Invertex;516853:

  It's very true actually. Most "important" (once a day raid) bosses have moves that Spear Lann can't actually dodge without luck (Crit -> Gliding Fury), or secondaries (Palala). It's not even about skill level, even Raidhunter has in his Thor video description that the only way to solo is to kill Thor faster then he kills you. He literally goes full blown spin2win the instant Thor berserks as it's the only way to kill him at that point. In parties you could technically back down when he aggros you and wait for him to refocus on someone else, but his spin2win hits often and is more likely to attract aggro. Backing off also lowers your overall damage, which is what Spear Lann is supposed to specialize at. Spear Lann's dodge is terrible and compared to everyone else, his survivability is very low.
  
  In order to pull comparitive damage numbers to Hammer Fionas and Staff Evies, you'll need to be that much more well equipped and skilled, and chances are you'll still die more often compared to the others.
  
  Anyways, that aside.
  
  Sword Lann
  -Slip Dash is a very good dodge
  -His DPS is subpar unless you can critical -> Gliding Fury
  
  Spear Lann
  -3960 Hurricane (w/e it's called) is good DPS
  -Lacks a proper dodge, has to resort to sprint smash and roll
  -DPS is still reliant on the ability to critical -> Gliding Fury
  
  That's what I think the main difference is. An experienced Lann can correct me if I'm wrong.

  
  Right on the dot, couldn't have put it better myself.
• fieonavy wrote on 2011-07-18 16:21
  sigh......
  
  in case yu guys didnt know, tumbling is useless for a lann. there is another way yu can dodge with a spear lann that is VERY efficient and costs very little stamina. thats the main difference between a nub spin2win and a good spear lann. thats up to yu guys to find out i dont feel like saying it :P
  
  
  and if yu watch raid's thor solo vid clearly, yu can clearly see taht he uses it a lot too.
  
  my guildie also uses it when he soloed thor
• Saffaron123 wrote on 2011-07-18 16:28

  Quote from fieonavy;516975:

  sigh......
  
  in case yu guys didnt know, tumbling is useless for a lann. there is another way yu can dodge with a spear lann that is VERY efficient and costs very little stamina. thats the main difference between a nub spin2win and a good spear lann. thats up to yu guys to find out i dont feel like saying it :P
  
  
  and if yu watch raid's thor solo vid clearly, yu can clearly see taht he uses it a lot too.
  
  my guildie also uses it when he soloed thor

  
  
  You seem to act like you know a lot about Lanns. Yet you provide no reliable info.
• Invertex wrote on 2011-07-18 16:46

  Quote from fieonavy;516975:

  sigh......
  
  in case yu guys didnt know, tumbling is useless for a lann. there is another way yu can dodge with a spear lann that is VERY efficient and costs very little stamina. thats the main difference between a nub spin2win and a good spear lann. thats up to yu guys to find out i dont feel like saying it :P
  
  
  and if yu watch raid's thor solo vid clearly, yu can clearly see taht he uses it a lot too.
  
  my guildie also uses it when he soloed thor

  
  
  Sigh, the video description.
  

  Quote from Raidhunter:

  Arm : +15 BTS with two 9 rank enchant (ATS : 37)
  ATK : 14900
  Def : 6200
  Paladin Lv.25
  1 death / No cash potion use
  
  Only for high enhanced spear
  
  I'm sure that
  
  The only way to kill Thor with no die = Kill before I die
  
  ****ty work...

  
  
  I know you're probably refering to Sprint Smash (which nearly every Lann I've seen use) or the situational Gliding Fury. Anyways, that aside.
  
  Raidhunter also says that you only can solo Thor by doing enough damage to kill him before he kills you. Additionally, he says that it''s only because of his +15 double r9 enchanted spears that the solo was possible. What you're pretty much saying is that every Lann should get a +15 double r9, which would likely hit over 500m in price if you're buying from others (or any comparable weapon that will hit triple digit millions).
  
  Additionally, if you skip to around 11:30, when Thor berserks. What does one of the best Spear Lann do? Trans, spin2win + Gliding/Lightning Fury. That's literally his best option after Thor berserks. That says something about Spear Lann. I don't see a need to explain.
  
  Edit
  And a little post read edit. I'll admit my entire second paragraph was a bit off and unnecesary. But regardless, the point still stands that in order to be anywhere near as efficient as Raidhunter, you're going to have to drop a lot of money on a good spear. Meanwhile a +5 Dreamwalker or other 61 weapon serves every other class fine, and costs about 1/4 - 1/2 of what a decent spear would cost.
• fieonavy wrote on 2011-07-18 16:57
  nah it wasnt there in his vid description nt though
  
  and i didnt bother providing any evidence because most spear lanns are so ignorant about spin2win they dont even experiement with the other movesets lanns offer. and theres no point in releasing it, i wouldnt benefit from it :P
• Invertex wrote on 2011-07-18 17:03

  Quote from fieonavy;516998:

  nah it wasnt there in his vid description nt though
  
  and i didnt bother providing any evidence because most spear lanns are so ignorant about spin2win they dont even experiement with the other movesets lanns offer. and theres no point in releasing it, i wouldnt benefit from it :P

  
  
  

  Quote from Invertex;516994:

  I know you're probably refering to Sprint Smash (which nearly every Lann I've seen use) or the situational Gliding Fury. Anyways, that aside.

  
  
  Now I feel like you haven't read my posts yet. I don't really see "Sprint Smash" as a suitable survivability move for Lann when Evies get Mana Shield/Amber/Blink/Flying Sparrow, Fionas get Guard/HS, Sword Lanns get Slip Dash, and Karok gets Absorb Shock. Gliding Fury would be a great dodge, if only you didn't need to get lucky and crit right before you needed it.
• fieonavy wrote on 2011-07-18 17:16
  i really dont have time reading pargraphs after paragraphs so sorry if i didnt read it.
  
  and just for yur info, i havent seen a lot of lans use it .
• Invertex wrote on 2011-07-18 17:21

  Quote from fieonavy;517008:

  i really dont have time reading pargraphs after paragraphs so sorry if i didnt read it.
  
  and just for yur info, i havent seen a lot of lans use it .

  
  
  I see it used often enough to know it's not sufficient for survivability.
  
  My point still stands that at some point, every Spear Lann faces the problem that they lack a good defensive skill. At this point is where they go full blown spin2win in order to maximize damage before dying. This point is what probably sets the good Spear Lanns apart from the bad ones, the problem with this being is that this point always exists for Spear Lanns. Every other class will rarely, if ever, hit this point, even if the player is of average skill.
  
  And that's why I still view Spear Lanns as having low survivability, in general or relative to the other class.
• fieonavy wrote on 2011-07-18 17:28

  Quote from Invertex;517013:

  I see it used often enough to know it's not sufficient for survivability.
  
  My point still stands that at some point, every Spear Lann faces the problem that they lack a good defensive skill. At this point is where they go full blown spin2win in order to maximize damage before dying. This point is what probably sets the good Spear Lanns apart from the bad ones, the problem with this being is that this point always exists for Spear Lanns. Every other class will rarely, if ever, hit this point, even if the player is of average skill.
  
  And that's why I still view Spear Lanns as having low survivability, in general or relative to the other class.

  
  
  yeah. thats only for unskilled lanns.
  
  unlike evies and fiona where they can hold out mana amber and hs, yu have to time sprint smash correctly to avoid bosses. sorta like slip dash but harder cause it has no invinc frame.
• Invertex wrote on 2011-07-18 17:38

  Quote from fieonavy;517019:

  yeah. thats only for unskilled lanns.
  
  unlike evies and fiona where they can hold out mana amber and hs, yu have to time sprint smash correctly to avoid bosses. sorta like slip dash but harder cause it has no invinc frame.

  
  
  But unlike Fiona/Evie/Karok, there's a point where sprint smash is not sufficient. My point of bringing up Raidhunter is that one of the most skilled Lanns is forced into what most would call a "noob" style of play as he lacks a good enough dodge to even think of dodging Thor. While Thor is the most prominent example of the limitations of Spear Lann's dodge, many others exist (especially for those of a lower skill level). If you want to argue that if Raidhunter can do it, you should be able to as well, I don't know what to say.
  
  I'd like to think that every class should be able to reliably dodge moves. Spear Lann reaches the point where he can't. I think that fits in with "low survivability".
• Four wrote on 2011-07-18 22:22

  Quote from fieonavy;517019:

  yeah. thats only for unskilled lanns.
  
  unlike evies and fiona where they can hold out mana amber and hs, yu have to time sprint smash correctly to avoid bosses. sorta like slip dash but harder cause it has no invinc frame.

  
  Alright let's get it straight here. What bosses are you talking about?
  
  I do agree that Spear Lanns can survive at most bosses, but at some, Klaus for example, survival is meaningless when there are no openings for you to attack. And for bosses like Ingkells (and probably the upcoming Glas Ghaibhleann), they have attacks that we cannot dodge, at all. So yes Spear Lanns can survive, but at what cost?