Adelynn wrote on 2011-09-04 22:08
The first time I encountered the term was actually on these forums, and it's come up again since then, a few times.
How I feel about this, though, is far better articulated by this guy:
[video=youtube;zXO26pObTZA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXO26pObTZA[/video]
Since he's far more knowledgeable and better at putting things in order in general. Rather than "argue" for my side or whatever, I'm interested in people's views on objective morality, and if you guys want to address the stuff in the video specifically, that would be nice, since it's the reason I wanted to make this thread in the first place .
Episkey wrote on 2011-09-04 23:59
Interesting Video you got there. I'll suppose I'll target a few points that I felt should be expanded upon. Of course, this is a long post.
The entire video is basically trying to state how the practices stated by God in the OLD Testament, is immoral, not loving, etc. Therefore, the Old Testament was written by man.
Yet, what just baffles me is that the video does not cite such "barbaric" practices in the NEW Testament of the Bible. After all, Christians believe that both testaments were ultimately inspired by God.
OH NO! Stoning people! How barbaric. I mean its not like in some states in America the death penalty is allowed? Oh ... wait.
Is it any different? In our current days, we inflict the death penalty via lethal injection. Back then, they had stones and fire. I don't see the problem with the means of carrying out the execution.
So the issue is not the mode of execution, but why these people were executed.
First of all, the author of the video has a fundamental misunderstanding of what both the Old and New Testaments reveal about the nature of God. Another way of expressing this same basic thought is when people say, “The God of the Old Testament is a God of wrath while the God of the New Testament is a God of love.†The fact that the Bible is God’s progressive revelation of Himself to us through historical events and through His relationship with people throughout history might contribute to misconceptions about what God is like in the Old Testament as compared to the New Testament. However, when one reads both the Old and the New Testaments, it becomes evident that God is not different from one testament to another and that God’s wrath and His love are revealed in both testaments.
Throughout the Old Testament we see God’s judgment and wrath poured out on sin. Likewise, in the New Testament we see that the wrath of God is still “being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness†(Romans 1:18). God is no different in the Old Testament than in the New Testament. God by his very nature is immutable (unchanging). While we might see one aspect of His nature revealed in certain passages of Scripture more than other aspects, God Himself does not change.
The Old Testament was written to guide the original Jewish people and to separate/distinguish themselves from the surrounding countries. You have to remember that society and times were different back then. Compared to the B.C era, most religions nowadays are pretty "peaceful".
All the major battles in the Old Testament were fought against armies invading the Jewish people.
The video keeps talking about the punishments (such as stoning people) as if they should be in effect today. However that is not true. The Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law.
So, In place of the Old Testament law, Christians are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself†(Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments†(Matthew 22:40).
The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering (Killing innocent people, Self defense is not murder) them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time.
I think this is a good start. I can't possible tackle everything in the video in one post.
Zid wrote on 2011-09-05 02:36
Quote from Episkey;578138:
I think this is a good start. I can't possible tackle everything in the video in one post.
What you wrote meant that it's within context of the time frame, which many people consider as "subjective", not "objective", as per the video's argument. I won't say much about the punishment part, for it depends on whoever thinks punishment should be wrathful or merciful.
There's a mistake in the video. People with "even the slightest moral flaw" are much more likely to go to Purgatory than to Hell, but that's dependent on the flaw.
I will make this short, but personally, there are some things about the Judi-Christianity theology I don't believe, based on subjective morality. I have no say in objective morality, so I won't compare nor point out what is right or wrong. Also, there are other ways to deal with having a faith like this than just leaving altogether.