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AsterSelene wrote on 2011-10-17 03:33
In addition, while it's a good way to show your level of respect, it is somewhat against the "American way" in a sense, considering one of the stipulations in the Constitution is not granting titles of royalty. People intend that your level of respect should be equal.
Of course, we are talking about adults vs children, not just peers, but a country of these sort of ideals tends to tone this kind of honorific thing down - you'll notice historical royal Britain used Mrs./Mr. a lot more, along with even colonial America.
Also, honorifics are a pain in both Japanese and non-Japanese languages...seriously, I sometimes cannot tell the difference between Ms. and Miss, and even when I do remember I can't tell why everyone cares so much. Same for Korean. And I'm sure it's a pain in Japan.
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Kazuni wrote on 2011-10-17 03:39
Quote from AsterSelene;623814:
In addition, while it's a good way to show your level of respect, it is somewhat against the "American way" in a sense, considering one of the stipulations in the Constitution is not granting titles of royalty. People intend that your level of respect should be equal.
Of course, we are talking about adults vs children, not just peers, but a country of these sort of ideals tends to tone this kind of honorific thing down - you'll notice historical royal Britain used Mrs./Mr. a lot more, along with even colonial America.
Also, honorifics are a pain in both Japanese and non-Japanese languages...seriously, I sometimes cannot tell the difference between Ms. and Miss, and even when I do remember I can't tell why everyone cares so much. Same for Korean. And I'm sure it's a pain in Japan.
Ms. is for if you don't know whether they're married (like Madelle, in french), but we all know that it's for older women who aren't married since we can't call them Miss *cough*, since Miss is for young women or girls, like mademoiselle.
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Balenciaga wrote on 2011-10-17 03:53
How is this any different from question like "Why do Americans fry their fish instead of eating it raw like Japanese people do?" Simply, it's cultural thing.
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Adelynn wrote on 2011-10-17 04:20
We already have things to use as "titles". It's also not terribly hard to guess who we would refer to how, because it's in our culture as well. The way of speaking to someone changes too, depending on who they are and how well we know a person.
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Cynic wrote on 2011-10-17 04:29
Damn, Canada must be very polite-- I always assumed it was a stereotype.
People in America are rude as hell, however. They don't even use the supposed titles we have. Not even in regards to their superiors.
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Navy wrote on 2011-10-17 04:29
we do
Ms.
Miss.
Mrs.
Mr.
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Cynic wrote on 2011-10-17 04:30
Have =/= actually use, btw.
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Kazuni wrote on 2011-10-17 04:31
Quote from Cynic;623897:
Damn, Canada must be very polite-- I always assumed it was a stereotype.
People in America are rude as hell, however. They don't even use the supposed titles we have. Not even in regards to their superiors.
It
is just a stereotype. Lower mainland Canada is pretty much the same as the northern states.
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Navy wrote on 2011-10-17 04:34
Quote from Cynic;623900:
Have =/= actually use, btw.
they are used. Formally like every other country
do people in mexico address their friends like
"Hola senorita Ana"?
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Cannibal wrote on 2011-10-17 04:35
It's all culture. We do have those titles, but because we aren't raised to use them everyday, to refer to just about everyone, we don't. How often do you see someone walking around saying to everyone, "Hello Mr. Blahblah, I'm sorry Mrs. Blahblah, Can I help you Miss. Blahblah"?
Not to mention, just because we don't use it doesn't mean we're rude. We aren't raised to say things like that. We don't have to use honorifics for everyone, specifically close friends/relatives.
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Okami wrote on 2011-10-17 04:38
Quote from Cynic;623897:
Damn, Canada must be very polite-- I always assumed it was a stereotype.
People in America are rude as hell, however. They don't even use the supposed titles we have. Not even in regards to their superiors.
Most of the Canadians I've met act exactly like Americans (or if you prefer, Americans act like Canadians). And they aren't rude. Every culture has their own set of dick heads. You just don't notice the Canadian ones because you aren't Canadian.
As for the titles.. like others have said we have Mr. Mrs. Ms. Miss, etc. They are used plenty, and it's our form of the Japanese ones. It's all culture, really.
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Tarvos wrote on 2011-10-17 04:50
I don't think Americans use it nowadays simply because there's no stigma if we *don't* use it. I'm sure if you go to a place like Germany and Japan, you're going to look like an ass.
In business, everyone is polite to customers (hello sir/miss, how can I help you?) because they want their monies, while peons are polite to their bosses (yes sir/boss) because they want a raise or don't want to get fired. Though even this isn't as prevalent any more from a co-worker's view. (at my job, we even refer to the District Manager by his first name)Teachers will send your ass to detention or the principal if you disrespect them. Doctors and Professors are seen as having higher intellect, so I think that's more tuned towards respect.
That's what I'd guess. We don't like to give respect unless we're going to lose something, be it status, respect, money, etc. When I say "we" I'm not referring to Americans, I'm talking about people in general. Just some cultures like Japan/Germany put more emphasis on it. Though, I'm American, so, I couldn't really vouch for everyone else. This is just my hypothesis.
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abc33kr wrote on 2011-10-17 05:00
because honorifics and titles are redundant. What they do is describe a person, but if you already know the person well enough, such things aren't necessary.
and if you think honorifics/titles are good because they're traditional, then go look at tobacco tradition or read lottery.
imo honorifics and titles in general make communications A LOT harder. if you have something to say, just say it. no need to put distracting "respectful" words.
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BizarreJuju wrote on 2011-10-17 05:01
Cause Japan is cool like that. Only time I use san/chan/kun is when I talk to my Japanese friends in class or at work (while speaking Japanese). When my American friends ask if they can be called san/chan/kun I always refuse 8D.
But these words are only best (personally) speaking in Japanese.
San = when talking to people who are older, someone you respect, teacher, stranger
Kun = Masculine, used on friends, someone you know, can be used on girls
Chan = Feminine, used on girls, rarely on boys.
jiisan/jiichan = grandfather, friendly old man
baasan/baachan = grandmother, friendly old lady
[lastname] sensei = teacher
[lastname] hakase = professor
These are used to express your respect towards the person, just saying their lastname or first name without the san sounds rude
But america also has their own title Mr. Mrs. Miss. Proffessor. Doctor. President. Governer. But like they say, American culture is somewhat rude in the first place 8D
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Cucurbita wrote on 2011-10-17 05:13
Quote from BizarreJuju;623948:
These are used to express your respect towards the person, just saying their lastname or first name without the san sounds rude
Thats the cover of it, but its just untrue.
You would get fired at a job for not adding san.
You would get beat up by upper class men by not adding sempai.
You would get detention by teachers for not adding sensei.
Its a strict rule. Its not just about respect, its just not optional.
Alternatively, the culture of the language gives a person the authority to disregard this rule if they please, as long as they're in a position of higher power (position in job, field, or age). Age and position sometimes conflicts because someone might be your boss but is younger. In these cases, its entirely up to the boss on whether or not he wants to refer to you as a san. In any case, your upper class men, teachers, bosses, and those generally older than you will always just call you by your name with no title attached, unless they chose to (which is rather uncommon).
The other thing is, there is actually more to the change of language than just titles. The entire dialect changes once you have to refer to a person who is considered to be in higher social standing than you. The spoken method is completely different, and it not only makes forming sentence structures difficult, but it also specifically forms them in a way that shows your inferiority.
These forced titles are really a form of control and conformity. Something I'm glad the USA is far more lax on.