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MareneCorp wrote on 2011-12-03 23:44
Planning to put one of the above named enchants on a pair of +3 Braid Tassel Twin spears, I just need to decide which is better and why?
Right now, my gear that goes with the tassel spears only gives me 11.5k attack, would it be worth losing critical rate and attack speed over an immense boost in damage, or lose only a bit of attack speed for a bit of an increase in attack?
I personally think I'm deciding on Explosive, as I have R9 Fury Infusion to boost my critical rate and slashing high to boost attack speed, but I want to know the best possible choice.
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Invertex wrote on 2011-12-03 23:48
Explosive is a Rank 8 enchant I believe. So it might blow it up. If you're going to use NX on those spears, then you're going to be better off spending that NX to +10 the spears instead of using Explosive on it. Your situation sounds like you can't afford to replace these spears either (otherwise you'd get them at least to +5), so if that's a problem, do NOT go for Explosive.
Also Impending is 500k at most, Explosive is 2m or so.
Cost issues aside, it shouldn't make a difference on Spears as they already get very good crit and speed for the most part. I did see a Spear Lann with +15 Spears, and they seemed to perfer attack speed as they had Leopard on it. But that's only worth it if you're already hitting the attack cap on most bosses.
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MareneCorp wrote on 2011-12-04 00:14
Quote from Invertex;680462:
Explosive is a Rank 8 enchant I believe. So it might blow it up. If you're going to use NX on those spears, then you're going to be better off spending that NX to +10 the spears instead of using Explosive on it. Your situation sounds like you can't afford to replace these spears either (otherwise you'd get them at least to +5), so if that's a problem, do NOT go for Explosive.
Also Impending is 500k at most, Explosive is 2m or so.
Cost issues aside, it shouldn't make a difference on Spears as they already get very good crit and speed for the most part. I did see a Spear Lann with +15 Spears, and they seemed to perfer attack speed as they had Leopard on it. But that's only worth it if you're already hitting the attack cap on most bosses.
So, if I were to do, say, both +10 and Explosive, which would you recommend doing first? I expect to have about $30 worth of Nx when I'm ready, but that's only enough for both if I am extremely lucky. And my luck is worse than terrible when I work on my equipment.
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Invertex wrote on 2011-12-04 00:19
Quote from MareneCorp;680484:
So, if I were to do, say, both +10 and Explosive, which would you recommend doing first? I expect to have about $30 worth of Nx when I'm ready, but that's only enough for both if I am extremely lucky. And my luck is worse than terrible when I work on my equipment.
Well, this leads to another question. How much (in game) money do you currently have?
If you have a lot (20m+ or so?), I'd do Explosive first WITHOUT runes. You can only get up to a 40% chance with 100Br with Explosive, so you're going to fail more then you succeed. It's cheaper to get a bunch of +0 BTTS and blow them up to get Explosive on them. After that you can NX your way to +10.
If you don't have that much money in game, go for the +10. From +0 to +10, a weapon gains 1000 attack and 15 attack speed. From +3 to +10 is about 850 attack. Don't start using Enhancement Runes until you're going from +5 to +6 though. If you have leftover NX (5 Enhancement runes cost 19k NX, an Enchant rune costs 8.9k), you can try using the Enchant Rune. The only problem with this is that you're forced to use Enchant Runes.
Of note is that the Enchant Rune won't get used up if successful. If you do Explosive with a rune, and it works, you'll still have the Rune to try for Maelstrom or something.
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MareneCorp wrote on 2011-12-04 00:36
Think I'll try out the +10 first, I like the colors on my spears :3
Thank you!
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foreignreign wrote on 2011-12-04 04:45
Impending.
Explosive has -7% crit.
Crit is pretty much necessarily for spear Lanns if you want to have even a ghost of a chance of surviving without tank DEF.
And attack speed is fairly important as well, since it effects Gliding Fury/Lightning Fury speed. Which, again, is important for avoiding attacks.
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Invertex wrote on 2011-12-04 05:02
Quote from foreignreign;680743:
Impending.
Explosive has -7% crit.
Crit is pretty much necessarily for spear Lanns if you want to have even a ghost of a chance of surviving without tank DEF.
And attack speed is fairly important as well, since it effects Gliding Fury/Lightning Fury speed. Which, again, is important for avoiding attacks.
Well, I think the problem here is that their attack is still somewhat slow. I'm not aware of any cap in crit rate, but you'll still have 15% extra crit if you activate Fury Infusion. Then again, 12.8k (+10 Impending) versus 13.5k (+10 Explosive) isn't the biggest difference.
You could use that money you'd be using on Explosive on Maelstrom instead, unless that's not an option.
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foreignreign wrote on 2011-12-04 05:20
I wouldn't consider anything above 12k "somewhat low" tbh. Like, aside from boat 6/7 hero mode, that much attack is perfectly fine. And even still, for boat 6, saying that 12k+ is low is pushing it since mostly all of the bosses that you would spam hero mode on are chain hook-able, in which case, a Lann that can use chain hooks is just as good as a 4th character with 13k+ attack since you'll want someone chaining anyway (+ Berseker Spirit helps ease the pain). Also, FI does add 900 ATT which, with 12.8k base ATT, is more than good enough.
As for crit:
r9 Fury Infusion = +22 crit
Average Lann WIL = ~1k (+16 crit)
Braid Tassel = +39 crit
r6 Critical Mastery = +22 crit
Master = +5
Total of 104. But even with 104, most endgame bosses have close to 60 crit resistance. So against those bosses, with FI on, you have *only* 44% crit. In a worst case scenario (don't know the crit resistance for anything outside of Lion, but he's a special case anyway), let's just say the bosses have 60 crit resistance.
The chance of critting a boss with a 44% chance using LR is 82.44%. If we take 7% off that crit chance, it becomes 75%. And this is assuming he's using Master as opposed to Stone for added insurance. 25% chance of not critting off LR is pretty huge considering that aside from spinning, it's spear Lann's only way of doing consistent damage (sprint smash -> roll is way too much stamina and even with the 44% crit you only have a 68.64% success rate). Yes, you could do LR -> roll for a 4th chance at a crit, but then you'd be using around 1/3 of your stamina bar just to execute that combo which just makes you want to FI more or have more stamina regen periods.
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Invertex wrote on 2011-12-04 05:50
Quote from foreignreign;680765:
I wouldn't consider anything above 12k "somewhat low" tbh. Like, aside from boat 6/7 hero mode, that much attack is perfectly fine. And even still, for boat 6, saying that 12k+ is low is pushing it since mostly all of the bosses that you would spam hero mode on are chain hook-able, in which case, a Lann that can use chain hooks is just as good as a 4th character with 13k+ attack since you'll want someone chaining anyway (+ Berseker Spirit helps ease the pain). Also, FI does add 900 ATT which, with 12.8k base ATT, is more than good enough.
As for crit:
r9 Fury Infusion = +22 crit
Average Lann WIL = ~1k (+16 crit)
Braid Tassel = +39 crit
r6 Critical Mastery = +22 crit
Master = +5
Total of 104. But even with 104, most endgame bosses have close to 60 crit resistance. So against those bosses, with FI on, you have *only* 44% crit. In a worst case scenario (don't know the crit resistance for anything outside of Lion, but he's a special case anyway), let's just say the bosses have 60 crit resistance.
The chance of critting a boss with a 44% chance using LR is 82.44%. If we take 7% off that crit chance, it becomes 75%. And this is assuming he's using Master as opposed to Stone for added insurance. 25% chance of not critting off LR is pretty huge considering that aside from spinning, it's spear Lann's only way of doing consistent damage (sprint smash -> roll is way too much stamina and even with the 44% crit you only have a 68.64% success rate). Yes, you could do LR -> roll for a 4th chance at a crit, but then you'd be using around 1/3 of your stamina bar just to execute that combo which just makes you want to FI more or have more stamina regen periods.
I actually didn't know all of those crit numbers. And I will admit I've been staring at huge numbers for far too long.
So thanks for all of the info, I think that's better for helping Marene make his choice then anything I've said.
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foreignreign wrote on 2011-12-04 08:22
To be fair, most people only concentrate on ATT, maybe attack speed, nowadays which is kind of disappointing for Lann since he needs Crit just as much as ATT.
Oh, and while I remember, attack speed is also really useful since as far as I know, more speed = faster spins = moving farther in less time during spins. Which makes stuff slightly more dodgeable and I would imagine that with enough speed, you'd be able to spin from point A to point B faster than you'd be able to run. Which would be nice.
If only I had money lying around, I'd totally make a 40+ attack speed Lann.
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RebeccaBlack wrote on 2011-12-04 10:22
Someone needs to come up with a calculator for optimal stats. In some cases attack is all that matters on high defense bosses, but there comes a time where it's hard to tell whether you should go for 100 attack or 2 attack speed, for example.
Of course there are subjective things like strategy, evasion and general survivability that must be taken into account... but it would be good for figuring out the best raw DPS.