Does anyone feel Vindo could do without the damage cap?

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TLCBonaparte wrote on 2011-12-07 22:35

I mean there is no defense cap, why is the amount of damage capped? Frankly I find this a bit unfair, and Scythe Evie is a testament of the downside of this system, even though Scythe Evie has probably the most damaging burst damage, but the cap pretty much made sure they can't do more than other class in term of damage, and if Scythe Evie can't outshine in damage aspect, they became pretty much useless.
H4kurei wrote on 2011-12-07 22:52

What do you mean by damage cap?

If you mean the fact that past 10k over an enemy's defense won't make a difference, that affects all characters, arguably more to Fiona and Lann with BH and FI Spears. People rarely hit this cap outside of transformation on the things that matter anyway.

If you mean something along the lines of say, some old RPG games' limit to dealing 9999 damage, I don't think Vindictus has that.
TLCBonaparte wrote on 2011-12-07 22:53

Quote from H4kurei;684705:
What do you mean by damage cap?

If you mean the fact that past 10k over an enemy's defense won't make a difference, that affects all characters, arguably more to Fiona and Lann with BH and FI Spears. People rarely hit this cap outside of transformation on the things that matter anyway.

If you mean something along the lines of say, some old RPG games' limit to dealing 9999 damage, I don't think Vindictus has that.

Yeah I mean the pass 10k over defense.
Invertex wrote on 2011-12-07 23:01

Quote from TLCBonaparte;684707:
Yeah I mean the pass 10k over defense.

No. Please no.

This attack cap is the only thing remotely keeping things balanced, and even then it's not doing a very good job.

What Scythe Evie needs is better damage percentiles, so each bit of attack she has does more. Removing the attack cap (as mentioned earlier) benefits everyone, and it probably will make Scythe worse.
H4kurei wrote on 2011-12-07 23:06

@OP Keep in mind, that's not 10k in damage dealt, that's 10k to attack rating. With that said, the upper bound on attack you'll see in a typical rich-people-but-not-named-agelia party is around 15k; they barely hit the attack cap on Klaus, who has 5036 DEF.

What's confusing is how this affects Scythe the most. In terms of percentiles with skill modifiers, Loom is 0.26, Thread is 0.28.

In comparison, Butterfly Swing 1st hit is 0.289, subsequent swings are 0.22. Stigma, oh boy.. that's 0.42.
Staff has their 0.38 Firebolt and 0.41 Ice Spear.
Amaranth Kick, 0.27.
Lann has their 0.19 + ~30% = 0.247 Gliding Fury.

Everyone has their high-burst damage attacks. Source http://vindictushq.com/index.php?/topic/9430-new-damage-tables-out-12b-and-12c/; I realize it's probably a bit out of date but I highly doubt the numbers have changed significantly so much so that my point is nullified. If it hurts scythe, everyone's hurt. And I don't even think anyone is hurt in the way you're thinking.

You couldn't argue that Loom and Thread go hand in hand, giving them a sum percentile of 0.54, because they're still 2 separate hits.

Back to the attack cap, hardly anyone hits it on today's raids. When's the last time you've seen someone with 17k attack? How many do you see?
foreignreign wrote on 2011-12-07 23:41

Scythe Evie has Insane Reaper.

Everyone loves Insane Reaper. Everyone.
BizarreJuju wrote on 2011-12-08 00:49

Maybe there will be damage uncap after they uncap our lvl to 100 8D

If we are limited to lvl70, then there gotta be a uncap in the future like other MMO games.
RebeccaBlack wrote on 2011-12-08 03:33

Quote from Invertex;684712:
No. Please no.

This attack cap is the only thing remotely keeping things balanced

This.

We really don't need people with super high stats doing more than they already are. If it was up to me, stats would barely mean anything anyway. The enhancement level of your gear should not mean the difference between doing 1 damage per hit and 5,000 damage per hit. But as it is, it does mean that. The fact that some things literally cannot be done without certain gear because you'll run out of time before you finish it is, in my opinion, a huge flaw of Vindictus. But how is this relevant to your damage cap statement? Well, it's pretty much me saying that not only should we not remove the damage cap, we should increase the level of balance and equality between gear dramatically so skill is always the primary factor in determining who does the best.

Dedication to mundane tasks such as farming day in and day out or the willingness to pay money should not offer such a large advantage. It should offer some sort of noteworthy advantage... but not a game breaking one. And as it is, even though most people wouldn't like to admit it, this game is broken. It's fun, but it's broken and could be much more fun.
SozenCratosFocker wrote on 2011-12-08 10:59

Quote from TLCBonaparte;684693:
I mean there is no defense cap, why is the amount of damage capped? Frankly I find this a bit unfair, and Scythe Evie is a testament of the downside of this system, even though Scythe Evie has probably the most damaging burst damage, but the cap pretty much made sure they can't do more than other class in term of damage, and if Scythe Evie can't outshine in damage aspect, they became pretty much useless.

I think there is a defense cap. there was something about it in one of the threads here about transformations. IIRC, it was a minimum of 2k for the result of the ATT-DEF part of the dmg formula.

And the ATT cap doesn't limit scythe much more than other classes. it only limits the effectiveness of the ATT stat, not actual damage, so burst damage isn't any more limited than other damage. the only reason scythe is less overpowered than it should be right now is the rank A skill cap. Once they uncap the skills, scythe should be overoverpowered.
And even when the dmg isn't op, scythe is still very useful. reaper is great. If a scythe is leeching in a hero run, I usually don't even mind as long as she spams reaper with that free SP.
BT moves mobs closer so u can save time on multiple bosses. The distance it moves them seems to have been nerfed at some point, but it still improves the success rate for Lagho speedruns.
Wisps own, nuff said.

But yea, I think the att cap is unnecessary.