Lookin' for a nice Fiona Paladin.

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Kerrnon wrote on 2012-01-04 05:09

Not sure what to invest points into. I searched forums and didn't find anything.

Worth noting I am Hammer. Can anyone assist me? :(
Invertex wrote on 2012-01-04 06:12

Quote from Kerrnon;721350:
Not sure what to invest points into. I searched forums and didn't find anything.

Worth noting I am Hammer. Can anyone assist me? :(

Well, lets see.

I'd get all the Defence and HP boosts for both stages of Trans. I'd also get all the SP boosts (including Aura).

The reason for the above is simply due to the fact a Hammer Fiona will want to be spamming Butterfly with Slashing High active as often as possible during the 2 minutes that you're transformed. Having more Def, HP, and SP allows for repeated chains of Butterfly (with the only pause being to HS an attack or two for SP).

Then again there's the stat boosts to all 4 major stats that every character gets.

I think Resistance might give you Super Armor during smashes, but I'm not sure. I'd like some Fiona without 5/5 Resistance to tell me how non-Slashing High spin2win goes in trans first.
Oizen wrote on 2012-01-04 08:57

Resistance isn't super armor.

Its more like Standing endurance.
TheBoulder wrote on 2012-01-04 12:34

Hammer Fiona smashes have some innate super armour abilities. That being said, there's no point to spin2win if you're not doing it with Slashing High - it's simply ineffective to not take advantage of the unlimited stamina (unlimited spinning!) and increased attack speed.

In regard to the actual question at hand, I have maxed out HP, DEF, Fatigue, and Potential. Petrification and 2nd Trans are maxed simply by putting a point in.
I put one point in Aura to unlock Potential, 1 point into Grasp to unlock Divine Punishment (2 points) to unlock Petri.
Currently at level 20 Paladin.
My planned 2nd trans build:
Max Longevity, Perseverance, Vigor, Destiny, Conviction. 2 points into Stamina, 3 into Regen, 1/2 into Discipline depending on how 3rd Trans works out.
Invertex wrote on 2012-01-04 18:16

Quote from TheBoulder;721757:
Hammer Fiona smashes have some innate super armour abilities. That being said, there's no point to spin2win if you're not doing it with Slashing High - it's simply ineffective to not take advantage of the unlimited stamina (unlimited spinning!) and increased attack speed.

I was just asking since I don't have any Super Armor on Butterfly outside of Slashing High, but I've noticed I have some Super Armor while spamming Butterfly in trans. Wasn't sure if it was just a side effect of trans or if it was resistance.

Anyways, I disagree with unlocking petrification. It doesn't work on bosses, which is where you're going to be using trans 95% of the time or so. Trans is such a boss oriented skill, that you sort of don't want or need things that don't help you kill the boss. I'd do 1 point into the base projectile and leave it at that. Just my opinion though.

2nd Stage regen is fairly useless, as you really won't be taking that much damage in trans. 2nd stage instantly fills up your HP, gives a decent defence boost, and allows you to get temporary invincibility with Conviction. The lowest my HP has ever gone in 2nd Stage was about 1.5k, and that was due to tanking Glas' crit grab.

Also using the logic of not spinning outside of Slashing High, the need for increased Stamina regeneration is fairly unnecesary given how you can get the needed SP in about 3-5 blocks.
foreignreign wrote on 2012-01-04 20:13

Some super armors seem to require you to take a maximum amount of damage for them to work.

I can super armor through the green mini-golem's fire aura with Butterfly Swings but I can't do the same on Colru's fire aura.
Spartaaaaa wrote on 2012-01-05 23:29

Quote from Invertex;721447:
Well, lets see.

I'd get all the Defence and HP boosts for both stages of Trans. I'd also get all the SP boosts (including Aura).

The reason for the above is simply due to the fact a Hammer Fiona will want to be spamming Butterfly with Slashing High active as often as possible during the 2 minutes that you're transformed. Having more Def, HP, and SP allows for repeated chains of Butterfly (with the only pause being to HS an attack or two for SP).

Then again there's the stat boosts to all 4 major stats that every character gets.

I think Resistance might give you Super Armor during smashes, but I'm not sure. I'd like some Fiona without 5/5 Resistance to tell me how non-Slashing High spin2win goes in trans first.

Aura isn't really that much of a bonus... Even if maxed out, it only gives 200 SP, which is less than one bar (assuming you survive the duration of trans). Definitely not worth 5 whole points.
Invertex wrote on 2012-01-05 23:57

Quote from Spartaaaaa;724081:
Aura isn't really that much of a bonus... Even if maxed out, it only gives 200 SP, which is less than one bar (assuming you survive the duration of trans). Definitely not worth 5 whole points.

Well, lets see what the other options are.

Resistance - A weaker version of Standing Endurance.
Multitarget projectiles - Not much use when you're only fighting bosses.
Petrifying projectiles - See multitarget.
Stamina regen - Won't be necesary if you intend to stay in Slashing High for the full duration of Trans.
HP regen - Not necesary as the HP you get back is minimal, and you have to play pretty sloppily to get killed in trans (considering I've even tanked Glas' crit grab).

You're going to need to put the points somewhere. I have Lv. 39 trans, and the only skills I have open currently are Conviction strength, Stamina, HP Regen, and the projectile buffs. There just isn't anything better then a free 200SP.
Arendel wrote on 2012-01-06 00:55

This is more or less the build I'm following on both my Evie and Fiona:

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/KI5es.png]

All stat boosts maxed - This should be self-explanatory.

Grace: Resistance - This actually does act as super armor, at least some of the time. I've noticed that my Evie will occasionally shrug off attacks as if she hadn't been hit by anything. Yes, this sometimes happens when she has mana shields active, but I've had it happen even when they were down, and mana shields do not normally provide super armor in those situations.

For the other times when this skill procs and you flinch instead, I would argue that it is still worthwhile. Contrary to what has been stated in this thread, it isn't really a "weaker version of Standing Endurance." By comparison, Standing Endurance has a bit more delay before your character is allowed to move again, and it moves you out of attacking range. When Resistance procs, you flinch very briefly and that's it.

Grace: Aura - Stacks with Fatigue and Vigor. More SP is always nice. Also, this benefits your party members, which means more Reverse Gravity spamming for everyone to take advantage of if you have multiple Evies in your team.

Grace: Fatigue and Grace: Vigor maxed - Should be self-explanatory. The SP gain is huge and allows you to activate Slashing High (IR/RG for Evies) more frequently.

Conviction, No Discipline - Conviction for a little damage upon activation and some life insurance when you're in the enemy's face. Possibly useful in certain situations for its super armor. Discipline isn't really needed because Conviction breaks fairly easily regardless. Also, Conviction is based on DEF, and if you're stacking an insane amount of DEF, your survivability will be very high anyway.

No Grace: Stamina - Not really needed if you can manage your stamina properly. Perhaps the only time you'd need this is during Butterfly spam, but Slashing High solves the stamina issue from that with an attack speed bonus to boot. There are also other ways to get increased stamina restoration that make this obsolete (e.g., food, Zeal enchant).

1 Grace: Regeneration - I could see how this might be useful, but out of the total max HP you'll have during transformation, this doesn't regenerate a whole lot. Just entering second stage restores your health to its maximum and grants you invincibility for the first few seconds.

--

You can probably do without the points in Divine Punishment and Petrification. You can also take some out of Resistance, but it is useful to have.
Invertex wrote on 2012-01-06 01:47

I meant stronger, I have no idea why I said weaker.
Can't think and type. ;-;

Personally I maxed out Resistance as well, simply as I didn't feel the other stuff is useful. The only other skill I'd put points in (my build is identical, but without Divine Punishment and Petrification) would be Discipline, as that super armor does have quite a bit of use. Conviction pretty much allows you to start spinning right after you activate it, and it's great to get by Colru's fire aura if you don't have the SP for Slashing High yet. The only problem with Discipline is that you need 35 points to invest in it, and Lv. 36-38 will be spent on Potential.
foreignreign wrote on 2012-01-06 10:02

Quote from Arendel;724163:
This is more or less the build I'm following on both my Evie and Fiona:

stuff

I'll agree with this except I'll argue that the point of getting Discipline with Conviction isn't necessarily to increase survivability, but to get more super armor out of Conviction. If you're a hammer Fiona, spinning isn't exactly the best SP gain, but it is most definitely the best DPS option. The poor SP gain means very few Slashing Highs for super armor, which leaves you with Conviction. I can easily eat up all my Fiona's stamina via spinning when I have Conviction on, even if a boss is attacking me. That's quite a nice bit of DPS to tide me over until I can get more SP for Slashing High.

EDIT: I shouldn't be posting at 5 AM since Invertex said the same thing basically.