FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

• Oizen wrote on 2012-01-12 19:52
  No <3 for sword lanns? =[
• Aryiane wrote on 2012-01-12 21:55
  For you people debating whether or not scythe evie needs it more than spear lann...I'm a scythe/staff myself and I can honestly say Lann's need the rebuff more than evies.
  
  However
  
  Scythe evies are tricky. Yes, we have blink and yes, that comes in handy for many things. But for most of the big bosses we have to blink two to three times to get away from a long boss combo (ex: Titan-->unless u blink through him and away immediately) and that takes up a ton of stamina in the process, and then when the boss comes around for another attack(if they happen to still be after us), we're either out of stamina already or we're about to be when we blink again and by that time it's another combo and we can't get away, leading to incapacitation.
  Also, for whoever said blink in colru with the big rock toss would be more beneficial; yes and no. You can always just flying sparrow out of the way(I've done it MANY times) if you time it right. Blink however, is easier with that one because of that stupid hit-box.
  
  Anyway, back on the lann rebuff~
  It really depends on the player. I've seen quite a few good spear/sword lanns who time things right, take a pot when they need it and overall don't try for the most damage when it's killing them--literally. He, in general, deserves a rebuff more than Evie. He should get something good for once.
  
  Scythe Evie and hammer Fiona(Or Fiona in general) should be next.:onionru:
• Invertex wrote on 2012-01-12 22:09

  Quote from Aryiane;733551:

  Scythe Evie and hammer Fiona(Or Fiona in general) should be next.:onionru:

  
  
  No idea why you're saying Hammer Fiona. Hammer Fiona has the second/third highest DPS currently in ideal situations (which are rather easy to create), and has plenty of survivability. If anything, I find it odd there isn't nearly as much Hammer Fiona hate as there is Staff Evie hate.
  
  Sword Fiona needs something. Sword damage is a lot worse than Hammer, Swords have about 1000 less attack due to Swords not giving much attack, and the "safety" from a Sword is barely worth noting. Add a bit of attack speed and there is very little difference in speed between Swords and Hammers. The thing is, Sword Fiona can still at least not die and do mediocre (as in the worst DPS in the game, but not dying = more damage) damage.
  
  If anything, I'd much rather see a Small Shield buff of sorts. It's just useless on everything now since the stun is barely worth it, and most bosses don't even have a normal you can reliably counter. Ingkells and Colru are the only raids that Small Shields get any benefit, and Thor is the only other one I'd even consider practical to try and use one on.
  
  In short, Hammers and Large Shields are fine. Swords are just completely outclassed in nearly every single way by Hammers (name me one where it isn't, it's probably irrelevant and/or very specific). Small Shields also need some more love, either with boss attack patterns or some sort of mitigation on the stam used by HS (it's about as bad as Blink's stamina usage, and nowhere near as good).
  
  But Sword Lann needs some of Blaster/Cestus' properties, Spear Lann needs a way to dodge, Scythe needs some damage boosts and some changes to her moveset. All of that is more important than a still usable class.
• Aryiane wrote on 2012-01-12 22:31

  Quote from Invertex;733554:

  No idea why you're saying Hammer Fiona.

  
  
  The reason why I say hammer fiona is because of her attack speed, without a +10(or above) hammer attacking is seriously slow and imo it makes me not want to play as her because of the money(gold or even real money..) that I would have to spend on it. I'm no fiona expert, but from what I've seen playing as a hammer it just needs some speed to her attack. The attacking is so slow that most of the time, in solo situations, when I try to get in one tiny little smash the boss is already up and I don't have enough time to block or I do that annoying roll, most of the time, right into him. The reason why I say sword is sort of what you said in your comment, unless it's a smash there's hardly any damage done. This is just what I'm hoping for. If it weren't for the slowness, I would consider playing hammer fiona a lot more.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2012-01-12 22:35
  HS Counter and Downward Counter need a buff and an uncap.
• Invertex wrote on 2012-01-12 22:52

  Quote from Aryiane;733569:

  The reason why I say hammer fiona is because of her attack speed, without a +10(or above) hammer attacking is seriously slow and imo it makes me not want to play as her because of the money(gold or even real money..) that I would have to spend on it. I'm no fiona expert, but from what I've seen playing as a hammer it just needs some speed to her attack. The attacking is so slow that most of the time, in solo situations, when I try to get in one tiny little smash the boss is already up and I don't have enough time to block or I do that annoying roll, most of the time, right into him. The reason why I say sword is sort of what you said in your comment, unless it's a smash there's hardly any damage done. This is just what I'm hoping for. If it weren't for the slowness, I would consider playing hammer fiona a lot more.

  
  
  Death roll happens with both weapons, it's usually not that bad if you practice inputs enough. It's one of those things that's similar to learning Slip Dash timing as such.
  
  Anyways, Hammers really don't need any more speed then they currently have. They are still completely viable without absurd enhancement levels (you should be able to solo CBH with a +5 enchantless BH). I think LR fits into nearly all boss patterns consistently, with or without +10 (though timing is stricter when you're trying without a +10).
  
  Just to address attacking in solo situations...
  
  Titan - After his 3 hit combo, you should be able to do a single Butterfly regardless of speed.
  Thor - His charge move, you should be able to at least do a LR since you only need to block one hit.
  Aghlan - He should be open after he slams his body into the ground.
  Ingkells - If you roll/sprint smash to dodge his moves, you can get a Stigma off after a few of his attacks.
  Glas - After a dive, you should be able to get a LR in, as well as after dodging his grab.
  CBH - After nearly everything he does, you can LR.
  Lionotus - Damage doesn't even matter here. Solo play would be trying to bomb Lionotus off the edge.
  Colru - LR fits in between Gray's punch combos, you can charge a Stigma outside of his fire aura's range in Green (and have it connect), Gold is always a pain, and Orange should be safe after his running uppercut.
  
  All of that should be doable with 0 attack speed.
  
  With attack speed (I really don't see why we should be concerned about solo situations without a +10, you're not going to have the attack to kill them in time anyways), Hammer and Swords feel identical. LR is always the go to smash, and Sword's version of it is barely any faster then the Hammer version. Not to mention without a +10 Sword, you'll be lucky to hit 12k attack. I think I almost hit 13k with a +5 Hammer.
  
  In a party, speed won't matter much either. Spin2win with Slashing High should outdamage Sword Lanns and Scythe Evies, even if you have ~500-1000 attack less then them. And even at absurd levels, I was within the damage of some +15s by ~5% damage, using a +10 Hammer.
• MareneCorp wrote on 2012-01-12 22:59

  Quote from SakuraFarron;733402:

  Afkalmighty:
  
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  This comic... Brought me to tears with its story T~T
  
  GO SPEAR LANNS!
  
  Anyway, Lanns in general need a buff, that or bosses need to be nerfed (in which case, ALL classes then have to be nerfed.). There are just some things that 0.6, or even 1.2(If you practice slip dashing enough to be able to link a slip->nimble->slip->nimble in succession) second of invincibility cannot accomplish.
  
  Glas's 5/6 combo, for example. First sword thrust, slip that. Brings his sword behind, then swings, slip that, next swing should be handled by a nimble, next is a slip, final thrust is a nimble, easy to do.
  
  Colru's [S]HATER[/S] fire aura, not so much, I haven't had enough practice to be able to tell the timing at which the aura hurts you, and the aura is constant, meaning Lanns cannot get anywhere near Colru.
• Oizen wrote on 2012-01-12 23:10

  Quote from MareneCorp;733588:

  This comic... Brought me to tears with its story T~T
  
  GO SPEAR LANNS!
  
  Anyway, Lanns in general need a buff, that or bosses need to be nerfed (in which case, ALL classes then have to be nerfed.). There are just some things that 0.6, or even 1.2(If you practice slip dashing enough to be able to link a slip->nimble->slip->nimble in succession) second of invincibility cannot accomplish.
  
  Glas's 5/6 combo, for example. First sword thrust, slip that. Brings his sword behind, then swings, slip that, next swing should be handled by a nimble, next is a slip, final thrust is a nimble, easy to do.
  
  Colru's [S]HATER[/S] fire aura, not so much, I haven't had enough practice to be able to tell the timing at which the aura hurts you, and the aura is constant, meaning Lanns cannot get anywhere near Colru.

  
  Colru is specifically tailored for Evies.
• Invertex wrote on 2012-01-12 23:17

  Quote from OizenX;733600:

  Colru is specifically tailored for Evies.

  
  
  Only Green phase as far as I'm concerned.
  
  Gold is a pain for Fionas (no attack window unless you walk fowards+right on the last hit of his 3 hit combo) and it pretty much just throws Staff Evies around. Karok and Lann are really good for Gold.
  
  Orange is decent for everyone, with most of his moves being predictable.
  
  Gray is hell unless you're a really good Karok or an average Fiona. You really can't expect to be able to do much against him besides let someone else tank the hits and just hit and run.
  
  Green sucks for Lann, but the relatively low damage of the fire aura means that it is somewhat abusable if you're using Spears. Karok and Fiona still have trouble here, though they can sort of poke him from just outside his aura.
  
  Both his unblockables are terrible for everyone.
  
  Sounds pretty average to me, honestly.
• Oizen wrote on 2012-01-12 23:30

  Quote from Invertex;733607:

  Only Green phase as far as I'm concerned.
  
  Gold is a pain for Fionas (no attack window unless you walk fowards+right on the last hit of his 3 hit combo) and it pretty much just throws Staff Evies around. Karok and Lann are really good for Gold.
  
  Orange is decent for everyone, with most of his moves being predictable.
  
  Gray is hell unless you're a really good Karok or an average Fiona. You really can't expect to be able to do much against him besides let someone else tank the hits and just hit and run.
  
  Green sucks for Lann, but the relatively low damage of the fire aura means that it is somewhat abusable if you're using Spears. Karok and Fiona still have trouble here, though they can sort of poke him from just outside his aura.
  
  Both his unblockables are terrible for everyone.
  
  Sounds pretty average to me, honestly.

  
  I mean Corlu himself, not the mini phases.
  
  Reverse Gravity spam, and being able to hit him when he's farting fire. :[
• MareneCorp wrote on 2012-01-12 23:33

  Quote from Invertex;733607:

  Both his unblockables are terrible for everyone.

  
  
  His black orbs of doom are dodgeable. As in, Lanns are pretty much the only class capable of dodging the black orbs without a wall. Yes, I have tested this, but again, takes a high amount of practice.
  
  Just trying to remember what the other unblockable was, if it's the fire, I'd steer clear out of his way of he starts walking his hater walk.
• Invertex wrote on 2012-01-13 00:10

  Quote from OizenX;733622:

  I mean Corlu himself, not the mini phases.
  
  Reverse Gravity spam, and being able to hit him when he's farting fire. :[

  
  
  Except Colru is made up of mini phases. So even if Lann can't handle Green, you can easily run around for a minute or two to stall until you can hit and run during Gray. Fact being, all classes have bad phases.
  
  

  Quote from MareneCorp;733626:

  His black orbs of doom are dodgeable. As in, Lanns are pretty much the only class capable of dodging the black orbs without a wall. Yes, I have tested this, but again, takes a high amount of practice.
  
  Just trying to remember what the other unblockable was, if it's the fire, I'd steer clear out of his way of he starts walking his hater walk.

  
  
  Technically Evie can do it too, but it's pretty impractical. All classes can technically use 4 bars of SP to get by it as well.
  
  That and his other unblockable is his rock throw. It's easy enough to dodge if you're in position, but it's still very annoying.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-01-13 03:59

  Quote from SakuraFarron;733402:

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  That... was beautiful. I want to get on my spear Lann right now...
• Mello wrote on 2012-01-13 06:06

  Quote from Aryiane;733551:

  For you people debating whether or not scythe evie needs it more than spear lann...I'm a scythe/staff myself and I can honestly say Lann's need the rebuff more than evies.
  
  However
  
  Scythe evies are tricky. Yes, we have blink and yes, that comes in handy for many things. But for most of the big bosses we have to blink two to three times to get away from a long boss combo (ex: Titan-->unless u blink through him and away immediately) and that takes up a ton of stamina in the process, and then when the boss comes around for another attack(if they happen to still be after us), we're either out of stamina already or we're about to be when we blink again and by that time it's another combo and we can't get away, leading to incapacitation.
  Also, for whoever said blink in colru with the big rock toss would be more beneficial; yes and no. You can always just flying sparrow out of the way(I've done it MANY times) if you time it right. Blink however, is easier with that one because of that stupid hit-box.
  
  Anyway, back on the lann rebuff~
  It really depends on the player. I've seen quite a few good spear/sword lanns who time things right, take a pot when they need it and overall don't try for the most damage when it's killing them--literally. He, in general, deserves a rebuff more than Evie. He should get something good for once.
  
  Scythe Evie and hammer Fiona(Or Fiona in general) should be next.:onionru:

  
  
  Screw spears, its swords that need a revamp.
• foreignreign wrote on 2012-01-16 09:06

  Quote from OizenX;733600:

  Colru is specifically tailored for Evies.

  
  
  You mean Females.
  
  Although, Fiona easily has the edge over Evie. Fiona can small shield all bosses except goldie/bottom left, in which case sword + large shield could survive in there easily enough and get LR/LLRs off without worry. Green and grey can be counter spammed to hell, and so can orange (to a lesser extent).
  
  Staff Evie can handle all the rooms as well kind of, although fighting gold and grey with two stevies is way too tedious. They definitely do better with Fionas in the mix to draw most of the aggro/body block though.