Learning japanese.

• Ninjam wrote on 2012-01-25 06:50
  This seems kind of iono, seems to be a difficult goal. I have decided to try and study japanese on my own, to be able to at the very least read and write it. I figure im finally getting serious with school, so i added the hour after a short break after my normal studies each day.
  
  Essentially, my current study schedule is something like 1 hour of drawing, a hour of doing my online work and psycology work, and a hour of japanese study.
  
  My plan is surprisingly simple, ill study the grammar and sentence structure for 30 minutes, and spend 15 minutes before and after reviewing flashcards, as well as any time i have outside of this between classes or stuff reviewing.
  
  It shouldn't be too hard, and my goal is to memorize 20 words a week. Ill make the english translation on 1 side, and the other have the romanji, hiragana/katakana, and kanji translations on the other.
  
  I will also make 5 cards a week with sample sentences using the words im studying, along with translations.
  
  I wont pretend i know everything, but do you guys think this will work? Is 20 words a week, with reviewing old ones and all that too much? Im going to try anyway, and spend at least a hour each day reading the many interesting textbooks i found online. I figure if i split it into parts, learning grammer and sentence structure, and learning vocab and words, i can get it.
  
  Any tips? i dont have any nearby classes to sign up for, perhaps next year when i go to the nearby university ill find some, but for now ill try self study, and see how well i can learn it.
• Piero wrote on 2012-01-25 07:00
  It shouldn't be that hard, but then again I take the class in school.
  Do you know all the hiragana characters?
  I recommend Hiragana > Katakana > Kanji, since it's easier imo.
• otto wrote on 2012-01-25 07:00
  The study plan sounds great if you keep up with it!
  I do suggest learning and mastering hiragana and katakana before you start on any grammar or vocabulary, if you haven't already. Any book or class will start you off with that.
  
  [edit]
  
  Ninja'd. Basically what Piero said c:
  If I have time later I can post some links to sites with really good starter lessons. And some books that are really good that I've used.
• Piero wrote on 2012-01-25 07:09
  Also, when learning hiragana (even katakana) remember to cover every character.
  Including stuff like
  
  ざ - Za
  じ - Ji
  ず - Zu
  ぜ - Ze
  ぞ - Zo
  
  ば - Ba
  び - Bi
  ぶ - Bu
  べ - Be
  ぼ - Bo
  
  ぱ- Pa
  ぴ - Pi
  ぷ - Pu
  ぺ -Pe
  ぽ - Po
  
  だ - Da
  ぢ - Di
  づ - Du
  で - De
  ど -Do
  
  and others.
  You need to know those (and memorize the little symbols on the side as they play a part in pronunciation)
• Piero wrote on 2012-01-25 07:09
  Also, when learning hiragana (even katakana) remember to cover every character.
  Including stuff like
  
  ざ - Za
  じ - Ji
  ず - Zu
  ぜ - Ze
  ぞ - Zo
  
  ば - Ba
  び - Bi
  ぶ - Bu
  べ - Be
  ぼ - Bo
  
  ぱ- Pa
  ぴ - Pi
  ぷ - Pu
  ぺ -Pe
  ぽ - Po
  
  だ - Da
  ぢ - Di
  づ - Du
  で - De
  ど -Do
  
  and others.
  You need to know those (and memorize the little symbols on the side as they play a part in pronunciation)
• Ninjam wrote on 2012-01-25 07:15
  I am working on learning hiragana, i already know a bit, like the basic a,e,i,o,u and like 20 others, but im not quite there yet. I started focusing on them by writing out some basic words out in hiragana and playing drills. Ill pick up on it if i keep trying to apply it to real words and sentences, otherwise it just instantly slips my mind, considering i spent a month playing one of those drill games between classes each day and learned only about half of them, despite constantly going back and deleting the ones it pushed me on cause i didnt remember the old ones well enough.
  
  I just figured having my vocab with all the alphabets and lettering on flashcards would make it easiest, as i would have reference for all of it. Or something like that, im a very interactive learner i think, and learn best by writing the words and letters out, and reading them over and over again.
  
  As of this moment, im going through an online textbook and taking notes using word. It seems to be progressing in a way that i can understand it and i think its mostly grammar with lots of sample sentences and some vocab at the end of each chapter.
• Chihaya wrote on 2012-01-25 07:38
  Best Tip when learning Japanese? Be an Asian.
  Because the grammar is so similar, learning Japanese might be as easy as relearning your native language in some cases. This was the case for me (I'm Korean, and I never received formal Japanese lessons).
  
  All my Japanese knowledge came from anime, eroge, and personal research.
  
  Here's the steps I suggest ALL people to take when learning Japanese.
  1) Watch anime. Easy, no?
  2) While watching anime, learn Hiragana and Katakana. Search online and you can probably find jpeg image tables of it. These are all memorization, just as how you would memorize your alphabet.
  3) Watch anime openings and endings. Quite often, the subbing groups will add the Japanese onto the anime so you can actually follow along and pronounce each hiragana or katakana syllables.
  
  4) Once you've become fully proficient in "reading" hiragana and katakana, move on to eroge. I know eroge are games only available for adults, but they are arguably the best learning tool for Japanese as they're fun, convenient, and usually, doesn't cost money.
  5) Use translators with these eroge. This is where you hit the hurdle. Kanji translations can be done easily even with Google translate, but you need to be able to put the words together. This is where the previous "Asian Experience" will shine, but is a point of giving-up for many Americans. There are no easy steps to this stage.
  
  6) Once you are proficient with Step 5, do whatever you want to memorize kanji. The simple ones are simple enough...
  
  がんばってね？
  日本語はむずかしけど
  できるならどっても楽しいよ
• Ninjam wrote on 2012-01-25 08:06
  That looks like about my plan. Close enough at least.
• Shanghai wrote on 2012-01-25 10:10
  Staying committed to the language is one of the more useful tips. It's very easy to forget Katakana and Kanji, and Hiragana for Japanese newbies if you go on some sort of hiatus, even if it's for only a couple of days. You'd want to learn through a teacher or instructor optimally, I've only heard of people being able to learn through anime/gaming, which is mostly informal dialect. You have to know how to pronounce the phonetic sounds of each Hiragana as well, especially つ and the ら・り・る・れ・ろ hiragana set, since that's what most people screw up on. It might take you longer than 4-5 years to get the language down, and might even take more than that to masterfully speak it fluently, especially since you're self-studying it. What boils down to it is the motivation and drive to learn the language, many people just give up mid-way.
  
  がんばって下さい。
• Cannibal wrote on 2012-01-25 10:38
  Why not try learning how to speak/understand before learning how to read/write? That's how children learn; to speak before they read.
  
  I know it sounds dumb to learn like a child, but maybe it'll be easier that way. I suggest the Pimsleur program.
• Ninjam wrote on 2012-01-25 11:20
  I know it would probably be best to learn through speaking first, but to be perfectly honest speaking, even in english, is not my strong suit. Even when I communicate in english im much more open over the internet because i have time to formulate and clear my thoughts, something thats hard to do in real life, and triplely hard to do in an unfamiliar language.
  
  I am using anime and japanese music, mostly to listen to as i study, or watch in my spare time. So its not like im compleatly without hearing it. I also constantly drill the sounds that go with the hiragana im learning, using software that says it outloud, so i think ill at the very least have a rough understanding of how japanese is spoken.
  
  Im treating it like drawing, where its something ive wanted to do forever but never found the motivation until now. I have a steady study schedual set up for college, something ive never done before. Why waste the opertunity, even if it is only for a hour or so a day, to try to do something ive been wanting to do for years but never had the motivation.
  
  I had doubts about drawing, but after seeing how easy it was to simply get lost in my drawing and spend easily a hour+ having fun practicing, and spending close to 7 hours today alone reading japanese textbooks and gathering study materials, i think i got the motivation, and the plan to work this.
  
  But now i have to fall asleap, cause i got class in the morning. Somewhat saddens me cause i just got everything perfectly ready. I know what im going to study and when, and now i cant wait.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2012-01-25 11:36
  The best and fastest way would be immersing yourself in a situation where English is not an option.
  
  Just go to Japan and live there for a bit. You'll learn more Japanese in a month than you would in several years at home.
  
  That said, I don't want to be a jerk, but when I hear people talk about learning new languages I'm always thinking they should just learn more or their own language first. 20 words a day, if you think you could handle in Japanese, you could also handle in English.
  
  Having a strong vocabulary is always useful, and understanding your own language to the fullest is never a bad thing.
  
  Probably a lot more helpful in life too.
• Ninjam wrote on 2012-01-25 21:53
  I already do that though. Im a big reader so im often at the library just pouring over books, ranging from classic literature to young adult novels. Depending on my mood and what i see that's interesting. Like the book on the supernatural i got last week. Its from the college library, which i dont go to often due to the fact that unlike the university nearby there fiction section is tiny. Like 1 shelf tiny.
  
  I dont have that much time nowadays to read, but i still am fairly sure im learning new words in english daily, considering the amount of time i spend reading it both online and offline.
  And immersion is probably the fastest way to learn a language, but also the most expensive. I want to try to visit other countries, but as a college student all my money and time is wrapped up in school. I figure once im out of college, and hopefully not 5k in debt ill try to travel a bit.
  
  Anyway, i think ill find some of the interesting wikis and games that are untranslated that i loved to play and just study them later. Theres nothing i hate more than seeing a really fun game or manga or text and realizing i cant read it, but the artwork on it leading me to believe that theres something awe inspiring there. Or at the very least will give me a better idea of the story or how to play than just plain guesswork.
  
  And why not, ill get a list of 20 words in English each week too, could be interesting. Perhaps even put the japanese translation next to them too. Would be interesting to see what words I dont know, im sure there are tons of interesting words in many languages that I dont know.
• Milk wrote on 2012-01-25 21:58
  It seems like such a chore to learn a language like Japanese. Especially when you come to realise how complex their language really is. (talking about reading and writing wise)
• Ninjam wrote on 2012-01-30 21:23
  It is very complex but i think im getting the hang of it.
  
  Essentially, i took a few dictionaries and one of my favorite (adult) games and began trying to translate it. Im also reading through textbooks and can see that
  in order to understand the sentence structure and language better im going to need to write sentences in japanese.
  
  It doesnt seem that hard when you have concrete goals. My long term goals are to pass the language profeciency test at the easiest level, and to translate this game, hopefully better than my first attempts.
  
  My short term goals are to translate this map, and to get in the habit of reading the textbooks and listening to the tapes.
  
  Really, it is very interesting. Going without internet for a few days taught me i was spending too much time gathering study material when i should be actually reading the textbooks and writing. That, and i need a better kanji dictionary as the one im using only has 1000 commonly used characters.
  
  
  And today i made a startaling revalation. Particles in japanese are so freaking useful for figuring out what a sentence means. I was already translating at about machine translation level by simple guesswork, but once i start using these in my translations i think im going to improve a ton.
  
  At the very least, im going to stop trying to search up a word using particles. At the most, im going to be able to use the particles in what seems to be there intended purpose, marking a subject/object. Knowing the verb goes at the end, and hopefully ill be reading more fluently now. Rather than just using dictionaries to translate each word.
  
  I also choose the best game to translate in my opinion, and the best software. Each map is separated into its own text file, and i have some base translations of items/menus to go off of while playing the game to get map ids using the debug tool(thankfully translated too) and to get context clues.